Charles Mingus - The Albums Poll!

Black Saint And Sinner Lady for me. One of the greatest albums of all time.

impossible

Indeed, although there are many here that qualify.

Also, wiki is really slacking on that list. I'd rank "Reincarnation of a Love Bird" and "Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus" (both on Candid) almost as high as Black Saintcetera.

wait - CMPCM is there. Still, there's a lot missing.

Black Saint!!

yah one i play quite often is called "mingus revisited"

the clown

I thought there was stuff missing as well. If there's a better list somewhere I can do the poll again.

I wanted to do a John Coltrane as Leader poll but couldn't find a complete list.

"# Epitaph (1990, Columbia, posthumous)"

gawd i bought this when it came out. what a bummer. they sucked the life right out of the music. you are better off with any one of a dozen mingus big band live discs.

http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/Mingus/discography.html

official website discog

I must admit I have only heard two or three of these, but liked "The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady" enough that it's worth voting for.

> you are better off with any one of a dozen mingus big band live discs

On The Mingus

impossible

-- chaki, Friday, December 14, 2007 12:27 AM

I am listening to "Reincarnation of a Love Bird" (the album, not the song) right now! Only two originals, but it hardly matters.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mingus-revisited?cat=entertainment

Mingus revisited is the same as pre-bird.

that shit is fucking sick

i listened to erectus & mingus mingus mingus mingus mingus last night, but i listen to ah um more than anything else.

is that un-hip of me

nothing is as un-hip as really really liking the mingus song that was featured in Jerry Maguire, so I think you're okay

also I could have sworn Mingus did a version of Joshua Fit De Battle Of Jericho but I don't know why

I love Black Saint, but I was afraid no one else would vote for Tijuana, so I did.

God, that trio of albums (through Mx5) is just fantastic, though I've always kinda believed that my liking them more than anything else he's done is because those were the albums that I heard first and so judge all other Mingus against. I wonder how much that affects which Mingus people like.

i picked "plays piano" because we used to play that on CD for my son when he was a baby, he would always be quiet when it was on.

# Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (1963, Impulse!)
# Mingus at Antibes (1960, Atlantic)

^^^Top two. mingus x 5 is like a greatest hits except they were all recorded for one album

Ah Um is very good also, but is like mingus x5 junior

albums like 'the clown' and 'oh yeah' are great but short and i bought the box set so i can just listen to all his atlantic shit chronologically + with best sound

# Let My Children Hear Music (1972, Columbia)

^^real underrated

black saint is great but a kind of random choice for the indie kid canon in many ways ... its the most prog least poptimist

It does have guitar, though, which most others do not.

haha touche

I don't know a Mingus "...Battle of Jericho" but there is a killer Grant Green version on the album "Spirituals"

no wait, "In the Spirit."

I kinda want to switch my vote now for "Presents..." which is now playing, by total coincidence.

i'll vote mingus ah um.

i'm going to get my dad mingus x5 for christmas based on what you guys are saying, though.

Mingus Ah Um, I'm on record as saying this is the finest album ever recorded.

Shit, sorry, that Grant Green record is actually called "Feelin' the Spirit"

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Mingus album poll.

I guess a Grant Green poll will have to be done at some point if there's no objections. He did quite well IIRC in the jazz guitarists poll so plenty of ILM love.

He won, didn't he?

Jazz GUITAR poll

Yes, he did!

(haha, I lied about returning you to the mingus poll!)

Not doing the Grant Green just now as people will complain I've done too many in one day.
But I think maybe you should be the one who does it anyway so I'll leave it to you!

Grant Green poll by oilyrags:

* Feelin' the Spirit
* Some other fuckin' record, who cares?

So, Mingus.........

black saint is great but a kind of random choice for the indie kid canon in many ways ... its the most prog least poptimist

1st one I bought about 10 years ago as I read about it in some best jazz albums ever book I borrowed from our library.

Black Saint, Mingus Ah Um, Let My Children, in that order.

impossible is right. i think i listen to 'oh yeah' more than anything just because 'ecclusiastics' is the best song ever so i'ma vote for that, but there are so many

Loved the cassette of Ah Um back in the day. Have to vote for that one. This poll is reminding me that I have no excuse for not listening to more Mingus

I have listened to those 70s Mingus records as much as anything, as I found them at a good price used when I first started listening to him. "Let My Children Hear Music" is really incredible and I think a bit slept on in comparison to some of the other records.

That being said, this is a tough one where there are about a half dozen or more records that are really pinnacle listening if you like the artist. Mingus' career is not segmented like many other jazz giants, he kind of had a sound and further refined it over his career.

One good record that is not mentioned in the list that I have is one called "East Coasting" which was recorded in 1957. The group on this one even included Bill Evans on piano. Worth checking out if you like Mingus' other records and you come across it.

I'm going to vote for Mingus Ah Um. That was the very first one I heard, although I have probably listened to Blues and Roots, Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, New Tiajuana Blues and Let My Children Hear Music just as much. The crazy thing is that you can mention those records and are still leaving out killer records like Oh Yeah and The Clown. Rahsaan Roland Kirk and Booker Ervin are so great on Oh Yeah.

Lot of live stuff missing here, including innumerable ones of the '64 Dolphy/Coles/Jordan/Byard/Richmond group; best of these are The Great Concert Of Charles Mingus (done in Paris) and the Cornell '64 set which came out this year.

Also the Town Hall Concert on Blue Note which is by everybody's admission a mess but a fascinating mess nonetheless.

Then there is the astonishing UCLA '65 set (Music Written For Monterey But Not Played etc.) which finally got a legit CD release this year and is the greatest thing ever, warts and all.

Then the ones he did in Paris: the Right Now! quartet session with John Handy, Jane Getz and Richmond featuring a phenomenal take on "Faubus" and the Pithycanthropus (sic for copyright reasons) Erectus sextet session.

And then just after Let My Children Hear Music the Mingus And Friends album came out; recorded live and it's fairly messy big band stuff but does contain some dynamic sequences - features amongst others Diz, Bill Cosby, Gerry Mulligan and Gene Ammons (!).

Black Saint is going to get a lot of votes and so by the look of things is Let My Children (hugely underrated, and let's hope someone is able to disentangle the beyond complex personnel details of those sessions one of these days) but here I'm going for Oh Yeah because of Roland Kirk and Mingus yelling at the piano and "Passions Of A Man" inventing Iggy Pop (see "L.A. Blues") and its status as the most ROCKING of Mingus records.

mingus us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us us

incisive

And there was another Candid album which I think was just called Mingus but its main track was "MDM" and featured Paul Bley on piano.

Yeah, the one with the purple cover and dude wearing a hat, looking magnificent, right?

I had hoped someone else liked Tijuana. Ah well.

I thought Pithecanthropus Erectus would've done better actually.

-- Herman G. Neuname, Thursday, 20 December 2007 01:10 (28 minutes ago) Link

the title track is incredible and i remember it having another song i love but as an album some of the performances are somewhat perfunctory i think.

also how was the album TONIGHT AT NOON excluded??

Because whoever did the wikipedia entry missed loads out

Disagree about Pith E. The title track is indeed astonishing (especially for 1956!) but the rest of the album is fine too; "A Foggy Day" with its street noises and sound effects, "Portrait Of Jackie" a brief but lovely ballad feature, "Love Chant" is In A Silent Way a dozen years ahead of schedule.

Great album.

I need to give Let My Children Hear Music another spin.

It's a wonderful record. The Sy Oliver arrangements make it more polished sounding than a lot of Mingus -- doesn't have that wildness -- so it doesn't appeal to people for whom wildness is Mingus's major draw.

"Hobo Ho" is pretty wild, even if Teo Macero had to splice multiple takes together because the band couldn't get through the piece in one go.

There was a segment on Cab Calloway this morning on NPR and it made me think that maybe Mingus's hollering and more raucous sounding tunes owed something to Calloway's over-the-top big-band style.

He wasn't the only singer like that was he?

Probably not - the idea just occurred to me as I was listening to some of the Calloway clips. It's not just a band-leader shouting and singing over the band like that, or the energetic, scat-like exclamations and unhinged sense of humor - it's also that the "more is more" arrangements of Calloway's band put me in mind of the exuberant ensemble playing on certain Mingus tracks.

You might be right of course, I just hadn't thought about that. Is there a good Mingus biography available?

I guess not.

There is Beneath the Underdog by Charles Mingus.

But I haven't read it, that question made me remember I got it at the library sale a few year ago. I have pulled it out to read soon.

Actually, Gene Santoro's Myself When I Am Real is great. (Though it slanders Elvis Costello at one point.) Sue Graham Mingus' Tonight at Noon is a good personal account. And you must read Beneath the Underdog if you haven't.

I kept the Santoro book by my bedside for a long time.

Jazz usually can't sustain my interest fro a whole album, but I make an exception for Blues and Roots. I may have to check out poll winners here.

I couldn't finish Beneath the Underdog

A lot of the classic Mingus albums seem more planned out as albums and better produced than typical jazz sessions.

I shall look out for that book then, thanks.

ahh this poll did better

I had a bunch of Mingus on my jazz poll.

That sounds like a double entendre.

it would if julian clary or kenneth williams said it

im sure at some pt we've talked about how 'black saint and the sinner lady,' while great, doesn't really capture what makes mingus awesome, right?

xp hahahaha

im sure at some pt we've talked about how 'black saint and the sinner lady,' while great, doesn't really capture what makes mingus awesome, right?
agree with this. awesome album, but not the most mingus-y of all his records. prefer the late 50s stuff, i think.
also worth your time is the young rebel set, which collects a ton of necessary early stuff.

I dunno, if someone asked me to put on a record that best represents Mingus, I'd pick Black Saint, Ah Um, and one of his 1964 dates (probably Paris), but not necessarily in that order.

black saint is epic symphonic madness which i guess is a mingus-y thing but only in the big picture sense ... it really doesnt sound anything like his other records

i think "ah um" is a great introduction bcuz it covers all the mingus song types p much, even if its not the best performances of each (although sometimes it is, cf goodbye porkpie hat) it really gives you an idea of the scope of his songwriting

no one particular alb gets all of cm's awesomeness, BSATSL gets some of it, The Clown gets other parts, and so on

yeah that is probably true.

otm

i've been on a mingus kick lately, it happens every couple of months. I always listen to Ah Um, Dynasty, and the 1964 live dates, but this time my favorite has been the 1970 "American" sessions recorded in Paris. It has an especially amazing version of Pithecanthropus Erectus with Jaki Byard absoulely killing it.

Mingus Dynasty was a bit robbed here, no?

"Far Wells Mill Valley" might be my fav Mingus air

this is a good thread, i thought it was impossible to exceed Mingus*5 but apparently two albums do so. must listen further

I don't want to be at work right now. I just want to go home and listen to Mingus all day.

Rather than start a new thread, I'm interested in knowing what Ilxor's very favourite Mingus numbers are. Seems even his weaker records contain at least one or two gems. If you were to contribute a track or two to a best-of, what would they be?

Like bendy, I would definitely say "Far Wells Mill Valley". Love this one, but I originally knew it as a sample in a dEUS song called 'Theme from Turnpike'.

Pretty much every moment off Mingus Ah Um and Black Saint is classic, but I especially like 'Fables of Faubus'.

I'm currently obsessed with 'Freedom' from Mingus x5 after a quote by Thom Yorke in the Radiohead poll about how he based Pyramid Song on it (although We Suck Young Blood is a more obvious tribute).

'Moanin' is one of his most catchy tunes - was this sampled for a TV ad? Why is that sax line so familiar?

Hard question! Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus is the man's own best-of, really, slick re-recordings of his own favorite tunes and recorded during what seems to me to be his strongest artistic period, coming right after Black Saint if I remember right.

Guess I don't have an answer to that, sorry! There are so many albums and the ten or so I have are all pretty solid and full of gems, like you seem to know already. Even the later ones like Let My Children Hear Music are thoroughly and inimitably stamped with Mingus' personality. I don't even really know any names of the songs. I don't rate Ah Um particularly highly compared to some others, FWIW.

I think, however, it is worth saying that the Jazz Icons DVD with the small group live sets featuring Eric Dolphy is absolutely essential.

Better Git It in Your Soul, Goodbye Pork Pie Hat, and Fables of Faubus (all from Ah Um) are locks imo.
My favorite piece might be Meditations On Integration or Meditations For A Pair Of Wire-Cutters. after Dolphy's death he called it Praying With Eric.

Folk Forms No. 1, the live version at Antibes. Kinda surprised given how often Mingus' compositions have been recorded the past 25 years that, as far as I know, nobody has put out a cover version yet. I wonder if Sue Mingus has something against that tune & "What Love."

Guess it is not really a best-of kind of entry at half an hour long, but Cumbia & Jazz Fusion is probably my favorite work of his from the '70s--swampy sections, drum duels, pretentious/beautiful piano, bird sounds, "diamonds in the nose" & modal groove.

I said this upthread but I think Antibes is top 3 mingus record ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOUhl_Pvd24

"Pithecanthropus Erectus" is a definite favourite. Likewise "Jelly Roll" and a few already mentioned

xpost yeah "Antibes" was one of my first Mingus recs. I was so thrilled to discover ACTUAL EXISTING FOOTAGE of that version of "I'll Remember April" on youtube (Dolphy & Ervin trading fours!)

Pithecantrhopus Erectus is my absolute favorite! The concept, as I perceive it anyway, is irresistible to me. Caveman jazz...

"haitian fight song" has pretty much always been my favorite. my brother and i had a long talk about how it seems like a precursor or older relative to coltrane's "The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost." also love "wednesday night prayer meeting"

Oh Yeah is such a great, weird album. Mine even more so, since I got it as the disc from the box set that combines it with Tonight at Noon. Roland Kirk & Booker Ervin honk and squawk with abandon. "Wham Bam" and "Don't Drop the Bomb on Me" are beautiful.

And "Love Chant" from Pithecanthropus is sublime. Desert island pick without question.

Just found out last night Terri Lyne Carrington did a tribute to Money Jungle and is touring on it.

Didn't feel like reviving the Money Jungle thread so posting about it here.

for an individual song, it's tough to get better than Ecclusiastics from Oh Yeah.

had a listen to that one last night, Karl. Never really thought of Mingus as a 'weird' artist, but it's tunes like that which disprove the assumption.

Mingus Dynasty is a marvellous album and easily belongs in the Mingus top tier. I only just learned from the intro of Beneath The Underdog that the album title is a reference to his own Chinese heritage.