bands that start out as black metal but get bored with it and go insane

are deathspell omega still black metal or have they moved onto something wilder and more furious?

SCOTT CMERE WE NEED YA

deathspell omega has not gotten bored with black metal

tbh ulver win this so, so hard, anyone who disabuses me of this notion has my undying respect

Wolves In The Throne Room to thread

also, Wold, and that shoegaze band who's name starts with 'A' that I forget, they did a 10" I think, awesome..

Spektr definitely counts as far as I'm concerned. One part black metal, one part Main/Zoviet France.

i forgot about spektr, and ved buens ende... they sort of count too

Akercocke and Nachtmystium seem to be in the midst of this transition right now.

bands that "get bored" with black metal and "go insane" are the most boring black metal bands of them all, srsly if what yr into is prog go nuts & have a good time but enuf of this fukkin "they've taken the genre to new levels!" indie-rock snobbism

nothin personal but it really does seem like ppl who discover metal and start demanding that it not be fully metal are kinda overrunning the landscape

or THE SCENE, even

but to be less cantankerous, if you're looking for something that's BM but kinda freaked out, try Peste Noire, they're pretty awesome, quite pure abt 3/4 of the time and then wtf bizarro folk influence.

Your "fuck off, people listening for the wrong reasons" argument holds water as far as I'm concerned, John, but the simple truth is I like Spektr a whole lot and would have to be pretty much bribed to listen to Darkthrone, Horna, or indeed the vast majority of trad/troo/kvlt black metal acts. The basic sounds the genre traffics in - the vocal style, the beat, the dominant guitar tones - are so not what I go for that a band's gotta bring a ton of other shit to the table to get me to the point where I can say "oh, and they're doing a black metal thing too, and I guess I can put up with it."

J0hn bang on the mark.

I don't think Wolves in the Throne room belong on this list at all. Their stuff is fairly traditional to my ears. My kneejerk response was Machtmystium, but I really don't think the guy is bored with BM or doing anything insane with it, just expanding his sound a bit more, while still working within the confines.

Ulver, imo, just straight up went pop, so I guess he qualifies but I wouldn't consider it "going insane" at all. Some might call it blatant selling out... I just think the guy wants to do something new.

I also don't think guys like Xasthur, Striborg, or Spektr are bored (though possibly "insane"), I feel like those guys are just trying to push things further and further into the black.

Meads of Asphodel could possibly go here, I guess.

nothin personal but it really does seem like ppl who discover metal and start demanding that it not be fully metal are kinda overrunning the landscape

or THE SCENE, even

well, yeah, but i still like some of these bands and i ain't no indie.

BLUT AUS NORD, btw. and if you like spektr, check out haemoth's thing that came out on southern lord, it's got some of the creepy atmosphere w/o the beats.

Burzum

The new Caina starts off all black metal, but the more it goes on, the more The Cure emerges as the predominant influence. Very cool combination.

Robert Smith should stop fucking around and DO this.

Going insane seems like a necessary part of achieving anything serious in black metal.

"going insane" meaning "gothic or industrial influences," apparently.

also "serious," ha.

Ulver, imo, just straight up went pop

Hahaha, tell another one!

OK: Ulver covers Prince songs

Ulver covered one Prince song as part of a compilation CD of all sorts of Norwegian bands covering Prince songs. It wasn't their initiative, but they were open to taking part.

Ulver's last two albums (products of their own initiative) aren't pop by any stretch of the imagination.

relax Louis nobody's saying you can't love Ulver

Also, long bitter lols at the use of the word "snobbish" upthread. I, someone who probably falls under J0hn's definition of an indie-rock false-metal newcomer, have a place in my heart for 'pure' BM (Mayhem, Trelldom, early Ulver, Deathspell, whatever) as well as a love for bands who experiment with sonics in a BM context. I simply think that BM is more open to evolution than many are claiming. It isn't an ancient art; it is a relatively recent musical phenomenon, born out of other, less extreme genres, and the continued progression and search for yet more expressive means of transmitting a BM aesthetic (with electronics, new production techniques, layers of sound etc) can only be healthy IMO. Let the purists continue to make it like they did back in '96, but there are only so many things you can do. Don't get me wrong, some of that stuff is dope, but I feel we've already seen the pinnacles of old-school BM. To move forward, bands need to be more open-minded. I don't even necessarily mean by including electronics or waiving the BM instrumentation; acts like Darkspace and Xasthur have created wholly original, stunning monuments to the darkness and destruction in man with traditional instrumentation, played and recorded in new and especially single-minded ways. Surely this is the essence of the BM aesthetic?

Sorry to get at you J0hn, it's just that I feel a bit miffed that some of the music I love is being dismissed as non-authentic. I hope my words don't seem too ignorant. I just like stuff I hear, y'know? And yeah, of course nobody's saying I can't love Ulver, that'd be stupid! :-D

Louis is the false metal Jagger

open-mindedness is not a BM virtue man

Also, long bitter lols at the use of the word "snobbish" upthread. I, someone who probably falls under J0hn's definition of an indie-rock false-metal newcomer, have a place in my heart for 'pure' BM (Mayhem, Trelldom, early Ulver, Deathspell, whatever) as well as a love for bands who experiment with sonics in a BM context.

"i like NWA and digable planets!"

open-mindedness is not a BM virtue man

Ain't that the truth. The tactic I found the funniest was when I'd go on Amazon and read reviews of more popular black metal albums like Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk, and the purists would hate it, but not just say the album sucked, but that it wasn't black metal. As if the genre is perfect, so that obviously any album that isn't good isn't black metal too!

i don't know, you know, i tend to lose interest in metal bands when they stop sounding like metal bands. unless they're really, really good. but generally if i wanted to listen to whatever they've adulterated their music with there are bands that play that genre and do it well.

Bo Jackson mistakes me I think - when I say "open-mindedness is not a BM virtue," I mean that open-mindedness in a BM band is not a desirable quality. Give me a black metal band who loves the style and has something of their own to contribute any day over some goddamn MBV fan who thinks he's really lifting shit up by watering it down.

ahh. well...I'm not a huge black metal fan (death metal is more my thing), but I was typically more into b.m. like Mayhem, Darkthrone, Immortal, and the like.

haven't really heard much of the "branchout" shit except for Arcturus. I do remember thinking Ulver's Themes from William Blake was one of the most pretentious and unfulfilling albums ever.

Oh yeah and Forgotten Woods...

Themes from William Blake was the clumsy first step. They mastered their new aesthetic with Blood Inside, an album you should at least hear.

I'll admit I haven't heard anything post-that album. But I am a fan of Bergtatt and Nattens Madrigal

None having gone more insane than Burzum.

"nothin personal but it really does seem like ppl who discover metal and start demanding that it not be fully metal are kinda overrunning the landscape"

yeah, okay, but it should be noted that the majority of "real" metal fans out there in the world don't listen to (or even like) much black metal, and the black metal that IS the most popular among yer average metal fan is stuff that troo bm headz would never listen to cuz it's too watered down/has too many outside elements/etc.

IM IN UR SCENE KILLIN UR BM.

I realize that, like, there's this Aryan purity bullshit that goes with being into "true metal," but since I don't really care about that dick-rubbin' and do generally like the noize/freakout side of stuff, so I was hoping this would have a bunch of folks who, like, I dunno, recorded a BM album with lots of dub effects or something. Instead, it's all full of "Dylan can't go electric!" bullshit.

Yeah it's not even like that at all but I'm sure it feels righteous to think so

Not sure about dub effects. Sigh made that album with a song that did indeed go dub halfway through, and I didn't really like it very much, too gimmicky and ill-fitting (very much on J0hn's side as far as they're concerned). The only successful experiment was the sorta lounge-metal "A Sunset Song", because it didn't sound that incongruous, and was real good fun.

I'd rather we got beyond the whole "any experimentation is bullshit" cut-off and began to establish what sort or manner of experimentation might work, and which might be hideous or sacrilegious.

x-post Was that "Imaginary Sonicscape"? I rather dug that record.

If y'all who're looking for tweaked metal haven't heard Black Mayonnaise give that a shot. It's basically metal screwed-and-chopped, more art than metal but a good ambient listen.

Anyhow, it's not "experimentation is bullshit," it's when ppl get like "oh the BEST stuff is ALWAYS the stuff that doesn't actually sound like it has much to do with the genre any more" that I go "look if you don't actually like the stuff why the fuck are you listening to it?"

Aha, now it becomes clearer. Yeah, I can roll with that. I don't for a second claim the more, uh, esoteric material is BETTER per se. Some works, some doesn't, but it's not attempting the same thing as straight-up BM, and although the aesthetic END (harrowing evocation of human darkness and pagan ritual) is often the same in avant-metal, the execution doesn't necessarily adhere to BM tenets. My one hang-up is that a "modified" execution could serve just as well a purpose, and that nowadays a truly ORIGINAL (if not better) BM album almost certainly has to compromise the initial ethic.

Imaginary Sonicscape isn't TERRIBLE, exactly, but I think it's a bit noodly, not just in the playing, but in the choice of instrumentation. I'm all for mixing things up, but I think they did so a bit hamfistedly. I'll give it another go, though! Cheers for the Black Mayonnaise rec.

i've never heard much black metal. this thread makes me wanna keep it that way.

i dont' see it as a question of whether or black metal should "progress" from its "traditional sound". the idea of a genre that includes burzum, root, darkspace, enslaved, and deathspell having a "traditional sound" is goofy to begin with. black metal has traditionally been experimental and pushing forward. there are a tons of troo kvlt darkthrone worshipers, but that's true of every genre.

does Alcest count? or was he/they never really metal?

actually i think more non-bm bands should go black metal. wouldn't you want to hear Coldplay's take on black metal?

oh sweet jesus

the only non-BM band i'd like to see give it a stab would be a band like the boredoms, and they don't really exist any longer

actually there's an english band called "hood" who i reckon could well pull it off, at their best they have what i'd regard as a black metal aesthetic, all simple instrumentation, harrowing bleakness and oppressive atmosphere, sadly we'd need to get them back to their 1996 prime before starting them out on this new project, one which they'd approach with the same single-mindedness they demonstrated in "rustic houses, forlorn valleys"

but we are in the realms of bitter fantasy

well, I always thought super roots 3 sounded pretty black metal!

we've been through all this:

METAL for ART-metallers

"i've never heard much black metal. this thread makes me wanna keep it that way."

don't be silly. you would have listened by now if you were at all interested. you can't blame this thread. you can't blame this thread for much. or praise it for much.

There is certainly no need for anyone to write another pure/troo BM album ever again.

i don't agree. that's like saying there is no need for anyone to write another pure/troo polka album ever again. or a pure/troo anything! i mean, i've been listening to bands rip off black sabbath for 30 years and i haven't gotten tired of it yet!
it might not be your thing, but there are plenty of people who are happy to listen to a zillion bands that sound like darkthrone or whoever.

Seriously what kind of bullshit is this thread? A good record is a good record, and "genre orthodoxy" produces as many good records as "genre experimentation." It's all about execution against goals--there's nothing unique about BM or any genre in this regard.

Most of my CDs sound like DThrone, yes. And "genre experimentation" - no matter how great or small - w/in the confines of BM's ultralimited characteristics results in a big ol trainwreck 98% of the time.

"the idea of a genre that includes burzum, root, darkspace, enslaved, and deathspell having a "traditional sound" is goofy to begin with."

Dan OTM, especially as Abruptum are in there as well.

"ultralimited characteristics"? I really hear a lot of diversity, particularly compared to other rock genres. The restrictions around the non-musical aspects of BM do seem pretty severe, but isn't that a way of marking off a territory for the true believers to run wild in?

Most of my CDs sound like DThrone, yes. And "genre experimentation" - no matter how great or small - w/in the confines of BM's ultralimited characteristics results in a big ol trainwreck 98% of the time.

But is that really different than any other genre? I don't think it is.

my fave bm album to listen to recently (came out last year, but i've been playing it a ton this year):

http://blog1.musicfield.jp/du_do2/archives/DRAUTRAN.jpg

drautran - throne of the depths

so beautiful to me. basically, german viking bm with occasional acoustic interludes and atmospheric fx.

also, not bm, but blackened doom-wise, the new velnias album on god is myth is really cool. for primordial/agalloch fans:

http://www.god-is-myth.com/images/Velnias_cover_Thumb.jpg

"Anyhow, it's not "experimentation is bullshit," it's when ppl get like "oh the BEST stuff is ALWAYS the stuff that doesn't actually sound like it has much to do with the genre any more" that I go "look if you don't actually like the stuff why the fuck are you listening to it?""

Ah, so your problem is with straw men. Beat 'em, John, beat 'em hard!

Me, it's more looking for stuff that's like Gravitar or Sleep, but veering further into BM. But hey, I'll totally cop to being a dilettante who still thinks of Venom as black metal.

Weaklings, christainised weaklings all!

like scorpion hidden under a rock it strikes the hand. like blizzard that rips off your face. a lion in the jungle that makes work of your throat. a morsel of meat you choke upon. a disease that makes your genitals fall off. there is only Byzantum.

\m/

I'm very belatedly exploring the BM scene and like to think that this thread is due for a revival.

Dødheimsgard - A Umbra Omega (2015) is fairly bonkers

love that record

ctrl-F: "ulver"
--->
'open-mindedness is not a BM virtue man'
--->
laughed so hard I startled my parents' paunchy calico, who was snoring on the couch

*: dilute calico; grey/orange/cream, rather than black/orange/white... important to get this right, otherwise she might sit on my head while I'm sleeping.

are cats black metal? this one sorta looks like a wolf, which has me thinking yes

Emptiness and Furia come to mind first. The former, from Belgium, were a sort of black/death hybrid that made a monster of weird, cinematic paranoia on Nothing but the Whole then went into something I can't even define on their latest, linked below; Furia were always a slightly skewed folkish black metal band (from Poland) whose releases have gotten more and more "post," but not in the usual post-metal or post-rock way -- it's like some kind of thunderous drone jam music now.

https://emptiness.bandcamp.com/album/not-for-music

https://paganrecords.bandcamp.com/album/ksi-yc-milczy-luty

Previous albums from these bands are also highly recommended.

Thanks for the suggestions, o. nate and Devilock.

I'm not familiar with the others, but the little I've heard of Furia's latest album made me want to investigate further.

Negură Bunget's final two LP's also roam farther and farther afield from their BM roots, but if anything they sound progressively less insane.

Angizia

Started out twenty years ago as already borderline black metal, quickly changed to theatrical cabaret/rock opera/klezmer, mostly on piano and accordeon - and all sung in German.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScngHItonDw

I can't really imagine that non-German speakers get much out of it except for a total wtf-experience, but the story in this concept album/play about "Winter's Dark Companion" is pretty entertaining - there's this misanthropic figure who travels around in freezing midwinter from home to home, accompanied by a servant in clown makeup carrying a grammophone on his back with Schubert records. Which he plays while the titular Gesell goes around murdering people. It's basically a Fargo episode set in the 19th century.

I feel like I should be able come up with some more straight bm bands that got increasingly weird, but can't really think of many. I think Mayhem got pretty strange, didn't they? And Manes? I don't really rate either of them though.

I do love some loopy "avant-garde" metal though, and I think these are some good ones that haven't been mentioned:

A Forest of Stars - Opportunistic Thieves of Spring
Smohalla - Resilience
Pyramids - A Northern Meadow
Mastery - VALIS
And OP mentioned Anubi, their only album is fucking NUTS

Angizia are a bit too theatrical for me though lol

Pensées Nocturnes? Not very accessible for non-French. Also stuff like Aborym, recent Abigor (like Time Is The Sulphur In The Veins Of The Saint), In The Woods, Sigh, Thy Catafalque.

well, the only sort of metal i listen to is false black metal. i like myrkur's "mausoleum"- she started out being hyped as black metal and had a lot of serious black metal dudes working on her album, but she still got a lot of flack because, well, she's not a dude and therefore couldn't possibly be trve cvlt. so for her followup she just went into a crypt with a choir, a piano, and an acoustic guitar and recorded some stuff. not "batshit insane" per se but pretty awesome new age with some great natural reverb.

abu lahab was always batshit insane. i have way more respect for the black metal folks in islamic countries because over there you can actually get put to death for saying that stuff, so they tend to work under pseudonyms (the historical abu lahab was muhammad's uncle, condemned in the qu'ran as a heretic). my favorite record of his is "as chastened angels descend into the thoracic tombs" from 2011 but i haven't heard all his stuff.

"the tortoise boat" by laetitia in holocaust. a pretty obscure one, acoustic combined with programmed blastbeats, but again i like the sound they have.

this feels like a good place to keep everyone updated on the unfolding oranssi pazuzu situation

http://listen.20buckspin.com/track/v-rimyrsky

amazing track imo

also for some reason the drummer for jaga jazzist has a black metal project, i guess because he's norwegian and it's mandatory over there. their only record is a live record and i'm more into shitty lo-fi basement tapes with no high end whatsoever but if you're into noise-kraut jams you could do worse than "killl". don't watch the video if you're epilepsy-sensitive. there's also "book of sand" if you want to try out some RABM, but i'm personally not very impressed by any rabm i've heard.

Master's Hammer Slagry

certainly fits the 'go insane' description. It might only be 41 minutes long, but it's hard to find anyone who can sit through the whole thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uuIlcxxXiY

ved buens ende becoming virus (who eventually got boring, but boy o boy is "carheart" still NUTS in 2017)

would dispute 'eventually got boring' but sure

also omg this master's hammer album, lol

it's basically that komar/melamid 'most unwanted song' but pretending (not very hard) to be a metal album

Well as a reward you'll get six minutes of actual metal at the end.

Lugubrum De Ware Hond ("The True Dog")

Half demented free jazz, half demented black (or as they call it themselves, brown) metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfwhalYgaAk

'Brown' as in NSBM, or..?

Brown as in feces.

i see :)

lol at the final three posts