Judes control international media: the jumped up little shits on ILX discuss the Guardian music pages in 2009

http://www.elearningadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/debate.jpg

Rob Fitzpatrick, I will deal with your TV On The Radio cover-piece for The Guide...tomorrow, when I have restored faculties and the burning zeal of the newly-woken

I know the original thread title contained a biting Mikey Hann reference, but the Trades Description Board demanded a thread title edit for the benefit of all posters who will have to look at this on New Answers every Friday.

Here's hoping this thread throws up anything half as good as "DO YOU RECKON YOU COULD HEAR AUTECHRE AND LIVE, BECAUSE I DON'T", because if it does, we've got a winner on our hands here.

Is there any way to move this thread to facebook somehow, I wonder.

looooooool

Hey Pash:

http://www.elearningadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/debate.jpg

As long as you don't mind me changing this thread title on a weekly basis, you are welcome to debate away.

btw Dom you forgot "YOU WOULDN'T EVEN SURVIVE ORBITAL AND I CAN DANCE TO ORBITAL, YOU FUCKWASTE"

ahh good times.

here's hoping for more balanced, incisive criticism come sunrise!

As long as you don't mind me changing this thread title on a weekly basis, you are welcome to debate away.

― Matt DC, Sunday, 11 January 2009 01:54 (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Can we change the font for the thread to comic sans?

^^^^^this

Not worth it tbh. There's a couple of promising sentences about coolness and the shallowness of the 19 year-old musician but really the talking is largely left to the band.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jan/12/beyonce-single-ladies-economic-downturn

we all remember the famous crash of september 1985.

a) Sean Michaels is the pits
b) I think he posts here actually or at least used to on the Chris Hansen-baiting Teenpop threads
c) Word in the street is he actually has no interest in music whatsoever and only set up his MP3 blog so he could leverage his way into a book deal
d) This is gonna be the big problem with dead tree moving online: that's not quite a blog piece, but it's not quite a "straight-up rewrite of some shit off the wires to fill space". It's kinda lingering halfway between.

that maybe, but the guy sure knows what's poppin in the 09:

Six months ago, Annie seemed on the verge of superstardom. She had recorded with Franz Ferdinand's Alex Kapranos, feuded with Girls Aloud, and the Guardian spent almost 1,500 words profiling the "proper pop star".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/jan/13/phil-collins-non-ironic-revival

VanDenHauwe

13 Jan 09, 4:55pm (about 2 hours ago)

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

illhaveyoubutler

13 Jan 09, 5:03pm (about 2 hours ago)

@VanDenHauwe

Do you realise how much that little speil of yours sounds like the one Patrick Bateman (or Christian Bale if you like)has in American Psycho. I believe shortly after that he brutally "offed" some poor woman. He also had appaling taste in music and that little case in point proves thats not good for the psychie..

Excellent review of the new Springsteen album by the great Richard Williams.

Always one of my favourite music writers and in my view wasted writing about sport - this piece is evocative, intelligent, loving but objective and makes me want to listen to the record immediately.

Here's a valid link to that review: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jan/23/bruce-springsteen-working-dream-review

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jan/30/lily-allen-koko-review

could have own thread rly but: examples of the newspaper giving a high star rating that does not reflect the contents of the review.

On the surface, rock and pop in 2009 doesn't seem radically different to rock and pop four years ago

....really?

I mean, to my parents, or anyone else over the age of 40, that's probably right, but in terms of being "accurate", no.

we didn't even have soulja boy then.

Plus, didn't her album come out in 2006?

Yeah, July 2006, so actually two and a half years rather than 4 years as he's trying to make it look.

I noticed that but didn't want to mention it.

xp

Seriously though, the subbing on the Guardian's musical section is a fucking disgrace.

This was a worse gaff by Simon Price in the Independent at the weekend:

(Roger McGuinn's) guitar skills are equally well-preserved: on "Eight Miles High", one of several Dylan songs he covered with the Byrds, his fingertips are a blur.

the subbing on amirite

Shouldn't need to be subbed on that one. Should have GOT IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE amirite?

To be fair, the sub could have changed it and fucked it up themselves.

I don't know much about GhostBox but that Petridis review this week piqued my curiosity and displayed how much better he is writing about things he's enthusiastic about than half-arsedly taking the piss out of whatever big release he's obliged to review that week.

Manages to get in the obligatory Stereophonics dig though.

If he's reviewing something 'weird' he'll always do a "this is no Sterephonics!" move, if he's reviewing something 'normal' he'll always pull "it's not exactly Laurie Anderson!" or whatevs.

haha

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jan/30/leeds-grunge-scene

It's hard to tell if it's the fault of the subjects or the writer but this is pretty cringeworthy stuff - probably enough standout lines in here for the next HMHB 'epic'

Never heard the songwriter as player-manager analogy before.

"I didn't have a dad, so I listened to Dave Grohl." ;_;

Which of those bands sound the least like My Vitriol are worth listening to then?

Although Wonderswan wear the check shirts of their American counterparts - all these bands wear unfeasibly tight trousers

I'll have it known that Mark Arm used to wear the tightest black jeans known to man. Saw Mudhoney in Manchester at the height of baggy and they were totally pro-skinnies. Even changed the words of 'Touch Me I'm Sick' to 'Lemme See Your Pants'.

"If you're involved in the music scene in Leeds, you get it rammed down your throat that the Kaiser Chiefs and the Pigeon Detectives are your legacy"

http://www.capitolnps.com/images/img-head-desk.jpg

Don't get me wrong, I'm not indiephobic, but...

I saw Wonderswan play in Sheffield and they were pretty crappy and self-regarding. They sounded a ot more like a 'noisy' post-Pavement act or some Merge also-ran band (complete w/feedback 'freakout' end to set) than grunge.

Think I'm going to see Pulled Apart By Horses tomorrow night with Sky Larkin and Cowtown (the Hyoo Stee-vuns tour). Their guitar-whirling and such can come off a bit try-hard, but their songs are a pretty decent amount of fun.

(The Kaiser Chiefs thing isn't entirely inaccurate, mind - there's a fucking huge wall mural of them by the escalator in HMV doing their bored-as-shit faces, and the drummer one's reading The Beano like Eric Clapton did that one time and grrrr)

That Kaiser Chiefs/Pigeon Detectives thing sounds entirely accurate to me. I doubt the people trying to sell X New Leeds Band give a second thought to the Wedding Present or the Sisters of Mercy.

God I fucking hate that Kaiser Chiefs drummer

> Sky Larkin

Are this lot any good? They're doing an instore in town here later today, not sure whether to bother or not.

Do you like noisy shambolic female-fronted Steve Lamacq indie from, I dunno, any time between 1993 and 98? I quite like them.

It's probably a sign of how little I go out these days that I've only seen Sky Larkin the once (and never seen Dinosaur Pile-Up, which is bizarre given just how bloody often they gig around here). Wasn't really blown away, though I was probably having a strop at the time, but I really liked the single they had out at the back end of last year hell of a lot. I'd say worth it.

What, like um Tampasm? (x-post)

My favourite Leeds band at the minute are Two Minute Noodles, tho. Who it would be fair to say sound absolutely naff-all like grunge. I can't remember the clips on their Myspace being entirely representative of how skillz they are live, though, so you may have to just take my word for it that they are excellent.

i noticed that the graun has "music newspaper of the year" on the front of the review section, but not how/why they got this

I think they got it by having a typesetter pick out the appropriate letters.

Think the Daily Express or something had been saying it's Newspaper Of The Year for about five years.

Sure, I agree. I'm just disputing that a mark out of five as a Buyer's Guide is no longer necessary.

Well, admittedly the word necessary is perhaps not the write one.

xposts

write?

what the hell.

I've been to the pub, sorry.

They really have a song called "Exogenesis: Symphony" ?!?!?

That's... that's... you know, if Chrome Hoof or Litmus were to release a song called Exogenesis: Symphony, I'd think that was the most fantastic thing ever. But it's *because* it's Muse that it's so freaking hilarious. I want to hear this song now.

Putting the 'Genesis' into Exogenesis: Symphony.

Many xposts

Mencap OTM. I get sent 4-5 albums to cover each month and I get a vague choice of what I'd like to cover, so while I'd love to do 10 or 0 star reviews, it's rare that I end up with something I hate landing on the doormat (at least since those trick-or-treaters from last year finally gave up on us). Similarly, 9 or 10 star albums are also pretty rare and don't crop up every month. I'm never going to give, for example, The Orb's new album a 10 star review even if it is pretty good.

The other danger is hyperbole for hyperbole's sake - hating something just because you're in a bad mood, or not the right mood at the time of writing to fully appreciate "DJ Turntablepsycho's Greatest Gabber Nosebleed Bangers". More importantly, the reviewer might be sent, for example, a prog-house mix which might work as well as any other prog-house mix but being another prog-house mix warrants neither a yay or nay.

With books, movies etc opinions seem a lot more immediate. This is because one is unlikely to come back to these media more than maybe twice at the most whereas people will listen to a bought CD many more times. However I cringe at the number of albums that I've given 8 star ratings to that I know I'll never listen to again, and yet rated well because they do have good qualities.

yeah er way to misread, southall -

"Almost inevitably, the listener will arrive at a point during Muse's fifth album when they are gripped by the absolute certainty that some kind of limit has been reached, that the trio simply cannot continue further on their current trajectory without succumbing to self-parody, and making a record of such high-camp ridiculousness that the only response is to laugh at them. Perhaps that point will come during the three-part orchestral work called Exogenesis: Symphony. Or I Belong to You, a song based on a Saint-Saëns aria that features frontman Matt Bellamy singing in French – plus a clarinet solo. Or perhaps the title track, on which Bellamy becomes the first non-Daily Mail reader in years to use the words "thought police", apparently in all seriousness"

— unless "michelle my belle sont les mots c'est tres bien ensemble" is actually a transliteration of part of the Ring cycle or something the comparison doesn't really hold

search guardian.co.uk

‘"thought police"’

173 results

ahahaha

It was more the clarinet solo than the singing in French bit I was bothered by - the fact that it was added after a dash like it was the straw that broke the camel's back, when, y'know, it's a clarinet.

Clarinet solos remind me of my dad seeing Captain Beefheart live in the 70s: apparently when he embarked on a solo with said instrument the whole audience went to the bar.

Talking of whom: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/oct/14/simpsons-atp-matt-groening?commentpage=1

Argh this is just one of those pieces that seems harmless but gives you a little paper cut with every sentence

Groening is also a member of the all-author band the Rock-Bottom Remainders and a keen player of the cowbell, though we'd much rather see the return the Dismemberment Plan and !!! than cowbell-botherers like Led Zeppelin or Guns N' Roses.

Pretty sure that !!! have more cowbell on one album than the entire careers of Led Zeppelin and Guns N' Roses put together.

The third comment down is from an ILXor.

Just read this before coming across to ILX to look up this thread. Very annoying.

Can, Minor Threat, the Teardrop Explodes, the Smiths and At the Drive-In anyone?

Um I'll take 4 of those 5 thanks.

Did Led Zep or GNR actually use a cowbell at any point? I can't think of any obvious songs but maybe i'm being dense.

Who cares when you can go and see the Dismemberment Plan, right kids?????

I thought that Wire article was pretty silly actually...there have always been poppy bands at ATP and always experimental stuff.

At the one in 2000 ATP had Snow Patrol and Super Furry Animals. Whereas at christmas we just had Bernard Parmegiani, and Steinberg & Winant playing Stockhausen with a quadrophonic system, and at New York the other week Oneida doing a 10 hour jam with shitloads of improv people...and ATP has never claimed to be an uber uber experimental wank fest anyway.

The article just read like he was told he had to write something about ATP and couldn't bring himself not to be critical and Wire-ish. But then it is The Wire.

xp GNR were all about the cowbell on Appetite... A friend of mine has a theory about how they lost it after Stephen "Popcorn" Adler left the band.

ah shit yeah remembering the intro of nightrain now...

Let's just hope we don't get Nancy Cartwright singing Do the Bartman

LOL!?!>!>>!<!??!>>?!?>>>>>!!!!?>!?!>>>!?

Jamie, I don't think the criticism was against poppiness at all, but rather the conservatism inherent in booking the same acts over and over and over again, and also being responsible for the whole reformation culture that is poisoning music right now.

reformation culture?

What's that

Oh, indie bands reforming.

Its true you know. We phoned up Carter USM last week and bunged em a tenner, next thing you know Omar Souleyman had shot himself :-(

By the way, Jamie, I love ATP, I think it is still pretty bloody awesome after all these years, some of the more recent ones *have* been better than some of the older ones, etc etc. However, that doesn't mean that these criticisms should be dismissed - or, in fact, misinterpreted so that you can argue against a straw-man instead of the actual criticism, which in your two answers so far you seem to be doing. In fact, dismissing them out of hand would be much better than utilising philosophical fallacies.

Sorry i guess it was a bit off handed, but when you make a statement with as much hyperbole as yours above (and clearly i'm not on the only person who thought it was pretty ott given its launched another thread), sometimes that what you'll end up getting. People seem to get very very angry about reformations or don't look back shows or us booking older bands, and i'm always at a loss as to where the nger comes from. Part of it maybe because the record industry/press/music geeks have an eternal tendency to always want the new and to be in there with the latest thing, and so will deride anything that looks backwards...

But by having a curator it sometimes means we will have the same bands, and also it means that curators might pick old bands (and sometimes we're lucky and they reform - sometimes with good results and sometimes bad). If you were asked to present your record collection as a live mixtape, would you only pick things from the last few years? doubtful. You'd probably pick things you've loved regardless of 'relevance' (whatever that's meant to be).

Nobody's forcing anyone to see the Don't Look Back shows, and it's not as if ATP only books bands for these shows and nothing else. Just about every band we ask to do a dont look back we support by promoting normal shows - because they're our favourite bands and the DLB shows celebrate our favourite records. On the other hand ATP always champions up and coming music both at the events and through the label so the Wire painting the place as some sort of mid 90s nostalgia trip isn't really fair.

That's not to mention the fact that some of the reformations we've had recently, like Sleep or the Jesus Lizard, have been some of the most vital performances i've seen in my life, or the fact that Dinosaur Jr and Polvo are putting out records now that are just as good as they were back in the day.

Yes it may mean that other promoters will copy the dont look back thing and... put on Carter.., and yes thats happening a lot right now...but then you dont have to buy a ticket.

My post wasn't meant to be particularly vitriolic, rather a summary of the two big problems that people have with the ATP brand now (actually, there is also a third problem most people I know have, and that is the ever increasing number of events - I can definitely see a couple of defences for this, but for most of us lay-people who are big ATP fans it seems just like squeezing extra money out of us).

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and yes, a lot of it is perfectly understandable. I do think that 'if you don't want to see it then don't buy tickets' is still missing something, though. Each individual instantiation of reformation or repetition isn't really a problem in itself, and no, nobody is being forced to attend a Don't Look Back or a Carter reformation. The anger (or annoyance, or miffedness, or whatever) really comes about from the way in which these things operate as a whole, and change the general discourse of the musical environment. That is something that can't be stopped by non-attendance at a show. It is also something that can't be blamed upon one promoter putting on some people that they like. So... an impasse, then.

Well regarding the first point; nobody is asking anyone to attend every ATP event; clearly thats not possible for most people.

As others have stated, other than in increase in other promoters doing DLB style events, i wouldn't agree that is has much of an effect on the musical environment; for me there's just as much exciting new music now as there ever has been, if not more. They're not changing the general discourse; they're adding something to it.

The people who ruined the decade

Named and shamed: the famous folk who make us glad to be leaving the noughties

* Pete Cashmore, Will Dean, Grace Dent, Priya Elan, Andrew Emery, Rob Fitzpatrick, Stuart Heritage, Malik Meer, Rebecca Nicholson, Alex Rayner, Steve Rose, Sam Richards, Richard Vine

DON SIMPSON Failed to keep Michael's heavy artillery at bay

The producer of Top Gun, Flashdance, Beverly Hills Cop, Bad Boys etc died in 1996 after ingesting half a pharmacy, which left his partner, Jerry Bruckheimer, looking for a new partner in crimes against cinema. Enter Michael Bay, whose inane new flavour of action movie has stomped across the 21st century like a monster truck in a model village – with Megan Fox at the wheel in a stars-and-stripes bikini. The THX crashes and IMAX bangs of Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys II and the Transformers movies have bludgeoned us into brain death. All of which makes Top Gun look like high art by comparison.

SEE ALSO McG (Terminator Salvation), Timur Bekmambetov (Wanted), Louis Leterrier (The Incredible Hulk, Transporter 2), Paul WS Anderson (Resident Evil, Death Race)

simpson co-produced 'bad boys' and 'the rock' you ignorant fucking cunts.

it doesn't mention the rock or bad boys tho?

"The producer of... Bad Boys"

He co-produced it you idiots, don't you know anything?

their idiotic argument is that don simpson is bad for dying and leaving "his partner, Jerry Bruckheimer, looking for a new partner in crimes against cinema. Enter Michael Bay...".

leaving aside that he died four years before this cursed decade began, this is patent nonsense because don simpson helped fucking discover michael bay and co-produced two of his films. bruckheimer did not need to cast around for a new "partner in crimes".

the point is anyone who contributed is a dick. we knew that -- it's the guardian guide -- but at least get basic things like "facts" and "arguments" right.

ah see i thought i was being dense hence the question marks.

High Concept: Don Simpson and the Hollywood Culture of Excess is one of the worst written books i've ever read but entertaining as all hell.

In my days of drug-taking a particularly large line was known as a Don Simpson :'-( RIP big man.

Can't be arsed to start a Graun zing thread for 2010 tbh, maybe someone else can. However:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2010/jan/06/gallows-great-rock-n-roll-swindle

Perhaps Warner Music was expecting a new Green Day or My Chemical Romance – inoffensive pop-punk for pre-pubescents – but those in the know recognised a great rock'n'roll swindle on a par with Malcolm McLaren's manoeuvring of the Sex Pistols through deals with EMI, A&M and Virgin over 18 months.

Spiritual forefathers such as Black Flag, Crass and Concrete Sox

shaking my head here

The article kind've ignores the fact that they won't have got all their one million advance if the band got dropped before they made all their contracted albums.

"a fold-out poster of a Carter painting featuring masturbating clergymen, anal fisting, vaginal mutilation, pigs in police uniforms and dripping entrails."

Brilliant. If Frank Carter was 13.

Grown-ups just go with a nice bowl of flowers and a moody sunset.

"a fold-out poster of a Carter painting featuring masturbating clergymen, anal fisting, vaginal mutilation, pigs in police uniforms and dripping entrails."

Jim Bob and Fruitbat upping their game here.

Nice bowl of flowers, moody sunset, and a little bit of anal fisting. Best of both worlds.

"pigs in police uniforms" - THINK ABOUT IT

In other news, the year planner on the wall to the right of my desk informs me that we are taking on Laura Barton for work experience in April.

The sheer cartoon blatant early 80s nostalgia vibe of the image is why it makes me grin a little bit rather than engage the "Watch Out, Banksy's About" cannon.

Warner Music, meanwhile, has emerged with egg on its face and, no doubt, a large debt to right off

Right on.

In other news, the year planner on the wall to the right of my desk informs me that we are taking on Laura Barton for work experience in April.

― the chance to act like a drunken whore (DJ Mencap), Monday, January 11, 2010 4:04 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

there are probably brighter and more deserving 17-year-olds out there.