Black Metal vs Death Metal

I never cared for Death Metal at all apart from Entombed for some reason. I have no interest in horror movies so a musical version never interested me. Also I dont want to get too thurston moore here, but I always found it all a bit too technical (yes laughable as i love math-rock and prog) Still don't care for it but i do like Doom/Death stuff like Coffins, though the DM grunting I still dont care for.

Black Metal I refused to listen to due to the neo-nazi connotations which was rather daft looking back to it. I started to like SOME BM when I checked out Weakling in 2001 due to the Fucking Champs connection (yes say lol indie if you must) but it clicked. But it was pretty much a one off til 3/4 years ago when i started checking Dead Raven Choir and Wolfmangler then onto out other stuff. Now ive even checked out the norwegian stuff i refused to listen to before and liked it! I like the raw stuff as much as he experimental avant garde stuff. I'm never going to be a BM stan but there's a lot of really great stuff I've heard but im sure there's more to be heard. Lots of doom and black metal bands mix it all together now and that appeals to me. I just find the BM style more interesting and a willingness to experiment which suits me, if not others.

Anyway tell me your thoughts.

and yes i do like Wolves In The Throne Room.

I do wonder if this is going to be a Europe prefers BM versus America prefers DM as I've seen on other boards.

i like both BM and DM. probably some of the unquantified third option, too.

what i'm saying is why you gotta sophie's choice us?

the latter option is only for those who like avant garde bm but dont like the rest of BM

I haven't heard that much black metal, outside of Emperor's "In the Nightside Eclipse", which I dl'd, listened to a few times and didn't really like.

I went through a death phase last year when I found my fiance's secret Morbid Angel CD hidden deep in a desk drawer. I downloaded a bunch of stuff that I loved back in middle school (Death's Spiritual Healing, Obituary's Cause of Death, Deicide's Legion) and found that I like it even better now than I did at the time. I tried out some more adventurous, progressive stuff too (later Death, Atheist) and it really didn't suit my tastes.

Am I right in thinking that death metal has always been far more popular than black metal in the USA? (basing this on cannibal corpse appearing in a film)

won't be any surprise that I'm voting death metal. the uninteresting death metal : uninteresting black metal ratio seems pretty much even right now but I think death metal when it's good really understands vibe better than black metal does. I think really the other-genre equivalency here is post-punk (death metal) vs. goth (black metal), although uncle thurston wouldn't like to hear that. I got a goth heart but I can't kid myself, none of the goth bands are as good as the best post-punk bands (well, almost none), and only a handful of the black metal bands (Darkthrone, Immortal, Gorgoroth, Mayhem at their best) do for me what the best death metal bands (Autopsy, Gorguts, Death, Atheist) do.

obviously on ilx black metal will win by blowout though, lol technical playing + not as exotic, that's not an insult but the whole black metal mythos makes it harder to resist than the sorta beefy-beerdrinkin-dude-comin-outta-the-yngwie-tradition image of death metal guitarists.

obviously on ilx black metal will win
you think? I always thought (on the rolling metal thread at least) that death metal was way more popular.

id say that BM was more like post-punk myself but whatever i do get your goth point. So i guess its not really fair to compare bm or dm to post punk at all. surely dm would be prog in that case?

at which point someone will point out post punk is prog punk

then geir will pop in to say symphonic rock is best

so on that note, j0hn, who are The Beatles of death metal and black metal?

Beatles of Death Metal - Death?

I don't think there is one for either genre, which is is part of what I like about both genres - no king to kill, no great-god-almighty whose standard is universally acknowledged

if you wanted a broader genre equivalency it'd really be country (death metal) vs. rock (black metal) - this isn't in terms of the social images of either term, about which who gives a shit, but questions like what's the general standard of musicianship, how strict are the genre confines & what do people who want to stretch them do, and also in a source -> tributary sense

if you wanted a broader genre equivalency it'd really be country (death metal)

lol I hope chuck will be along soon naming country acts with lyrics about horror movies. There must be a country-gore group somewhere, right? A DM spinoff band. If not, why not?
Any country-goth bands?

Not an enormous fan of either, but do have many death metal faves (Carcass, Morbid Angel,etc.). I cant really stand black metal at all.

yeah, for Chuck Big and Rich is death metal, and Kix is black metal.

There must be a country-gore group somewhere, right? A DM spinoff band.

Jeff Walker & Die Flüffers - Welcome to Carcass Cuntry

ahh yes, of course.

And then there's wrnlrd, a one man bm act from Arlington with bluegrass influences. Guess that should've been the other way around, bm = c&w, dm = bluegrass.

i should've put a Hood option in for louis

The Cobalt album from this year has a biggish country influence at certain points... but doesn't sound very BM all that much so eh

Only death is real

― Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Saturday, February 7, 2004 2:47 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark

vs.

http://i27.tinypic.com/14c8sv9.jpg

(still voting black though :-) )

you're so european stan ;)

Death metal for me without question. John summed up a lot of the arguments I'd make, but the fundamental one is that the basic sonic framework of black metal (the ultra-trebley guitars, the lack of rhythmic complexity, the high-pitched screeching vocals) is something I can only take in very, very small doses, particularly on disc. Black metal can work live - the recent Marduk show in NYC was terrific, with a full, roaring sound from all the bands on the bill - but on disc, for me anyway, it starts out annoying and then has to add elements to mitigate the basic annoyance factor.

i love a lot of black metal, but its death for me all the way. as a metal fan, i'm probably 40% doom, 30% death, 15% black, 15% other stuff. my roots are sabbath and judas priest and punk/hardcore. other then the biggest thrash bands and crossover bands of the 80's i didn't listen to ENDLESS amounts of thrash in the 80's. heck, once i heard slayer i never really needed to listen to overkill or exodus again (no offense to overkill or exodus. i actually listen to them more now!). um, that's just a way of saying that i WELCOMED death metal with open arms. cuz it was basically everything i loved about my fave bands like d.r.i. and discharge and ssd and celtic frost and slayer rolled up into one big awesome scary ball.

love them both, but ive chosen blackness

yay, I am an influence

youre just here to see if ill mess up and post u-lv.er without bypassing your tricksiness

...maybe

Black metal for basically all the reason unperson picked against it.

If I saw more live metal shows, I might choose black metal, because I enjoy its visual style and theatrical OTTness. But I've been disappointed a few too many times by black metal albums I really wanted to like. Death metal rarely disappoints in the same way, maybe because of the genre/musicianship expectations mentioned upthread.

I think a doom option might have swept this poll.

I've been scanning these threads and not reading them in-depth, so if someone could point me towards the discussion where the distinction between black metal and death metal was laid out, I'll go there and not try to recreate that conversation here.

death metal is more "urrrurruurrrruurrrrrr" black metal is more "yiiyiiyiiyiiiii"

it works better if you are here in the room with me while i do the noises

That makes it seem like death metal is a German shepherd and black metal is a chihuahua.

That's not inaccurate although the mexican-ish of black metal is kind of toned down most of the time.

I think a doom option might have swept this poll.

Which is why it was kept to DM vs BM. Doom won the other metal genre polls.

ha

I guess I should get to the point; I like Emperor, Therion and Opeth, so does that mean I should vote black or LJ?

Which is why it was kept to DM vs BM. Doom won the other metal genre polls.

Makes sense to me. The other problem would have been trying to decide what kind of dog does doom metal vocals.

Actually, the vocals on the first couple of Esoteric albums sound exactly like a really big dog barking one floor down from where you are.

i think the last time there was a metal genre poll there was 50 options and still people complained about subgenres that were missing.

I'll do a Doom vs Thrash poll if you want.

Thrash vs Doom

the latter option is only for those who like avant garde bm but dont like the rest of BM

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 14:03 (7 hours ago) Bookmark

What if you DO like the rest of BM?

Need to hear more DM before voting.

if you like all bm you vote bm obviously

What is avant garbe BM? Ulver? Later Emperor/Enslaved? Or just American BM?

Louis you must hear http://open.spotify.com/album/5nrZejD99ZmAXrmrouIJcU

and even more
http://www.headbanger.us/gallerie_e/bilder/entombed_wolverine_blues_front.jpg

which is easily in my top 10 metal albums of all time. prob the 1st "extreme metal" album i bought (if you dont include Godflesh or industrial stuff as 'metal'

What would Absu be classified as?

other things I should try? LP only :(

Get the Krallice!!!!

not really too surprising considering how dm is a ridiculously masculine style of music.

^^^this being my chief complaint about the stuff--which i find even more annoying than the cute muppet vocals really.

Ian - Liturgy's "Renihilation" would be my pick.

eh, that krallice album is kinda boring, imo.

I would check out some aura noir. loved hades rise and I know that black thrash attack is on vinyl because I have it.

"Liturgy's "Renihilation" would be my pick."
^this

Also, any Ludicra you can get your hands on. The roughs of their new one are killing me.

Krallice seconded. One of the very best BM releases of last year and one of those platters that somehow also appeal to people that are not really into BM. The riffs are very noodley. Which I love. But I can see how that might bore people, as the weaving and whirling almost seems endless.

Thanks for the list, Phil! Yeah, I really don't like those. I'd already tried about half of those, and after listening to the rest, Augury is still all I kept. Ah well.

On the BM side, I'll second/third/whatever the Liturgy and Ludicra recs.

Yeah, that Liturgy album is superb, I've been playing that a lot the last couple weeks.

Krallice is fucking great

Def interested in hearing the Krallice LP. Been a fan of Orthrelm/Octis/Mick Barr for years now. It's been ordered, I'll check it out sometime next week when it shows up... a little worried abt the 'jam' factor, but I imagine they can keep it under control.

tonight i picked up:
wird 'huldrafolk' and
obituaary 'slowly we rot.'

love it.

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned Krallice earlier! Branca-metal just makes so much sense.

"Branca-metal just makes so much sense."

I tried and failed to make such a thing in 1996.

Ah, here's some "Avant Garde Black Metal" for you, I think: Polis Rouge by Remmirath. Slovakia, 2008. Interestingly atmospheric, with one long electronic digression.

I cant wait for the new Krallice album, it's due very soon. I got the last one on vinyl from gilead media. There should be some left , it only came out on vinyl this year.

what are peoples pick-10 for death metal albums

off the top of my head

Morbid Angel - Domination
Unleashed - Where No Life Dwells
Morgoth - Odium
Carcass - Symphonies of Sickness
Vader - Ultimate Incantation
Bolt Thrower - Realm of Chaos
Death - Scream Bloody Gore
Asphyx - Last One on Earth
Rebaelliun - Annihilation
Marduk - Panzer Division Marduk

marduk is death metal? no cannibal corpse or entombed?

"what are peoples pick-10 for death metal albums"

there's a thread.

TS: Death Metal vs. Black Metal

pov: death metal albums

POV: Early 90s Death Metal

xpost - I guess Marduk is just so extreme and well produced that I can't think of it as black metal. Emperor's Equilibrium IX is pretty death metal in its way too.

I thought Marduk was BM?

Whatever. :)

lol

¿so is all black metal hella racisty?

no.

No.

"Is all rap misogynistic?"

nah i mean i heard some burzum and it was really awesome and my friend was all "hey that stuff is bad news" or whatever. the wikipedia page says they're all nazis i was just wonderin

Oh well, yeah Burzum is definitely a special case - for many reasons.

But it's not represented within the musics or lyrics, most of his racist stuff came while he was in jail wasnt it? Anyway there's actual NSBM that is way worse than Burzum et al

lol @ jj's description

surprising result. I think "in general", I'm definitely a death metal maven - most all of my favorites are death metal bands. But when it comes to the elite, the top black metal acts can be transcedent (like your Immortals and such).

I still would have voted death metal.

did lj get into death metal?

and if so, why?

it would be the arty/proggy kind obviously

btw if anyone here liked Weakling (or The Gault), they might be interested to know that John Gossard has formed a new BM project called Dispirit. I bought the demo tape and it's really really great. Cant wait for a full length.

You can check out some clips here & order it if you want to.

http://dispirit.org/

viceroy did you check it out?

SEND BACK MY STAMPS!: THE EARLY DEATH METAL ZINE GRAVEYARD
http://sendbackmystamps.org/

best fuckin site

wanted to post it in here as the link would get lost on the rolling metal thread plus a lot of people don't read it due to its pace/promo talk.
I know plenty will enjoy it (and possibly share stories of putting glue over stamps to wash off postmarks so they can be re-used)

Fuck, I wish I was cool enough to have known about this sort of stuff when it was out. This interview with Dan Lilker at the 9:30 Club (the old 9:30 club!) would have blown my 1991 mind. Thanks for sharing!

i just saw it posted on Forever Doomed and thought plenty ilx metalheads would get a kick out of it.

or 2 anyway

some good reading here for sure

I think that Strongbad mixes up Death Metal and Black Metal at times (and glam too!) but otherwise, this is the best thing you will ever watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cya3yjWWyqE

Okay guys, in the next ten minutes: help me choose whether to read:

Sound of the Beast
Lords of Chaos
or
Choosing Death

on the bus ride home today.

black metal is the wrong answer but uhm I submit this stanza from Christraping Black Metal:

"The daughters of satan abuses your body
And drool in ecstasy when you die
While our warriors rips the beard
Of your idiot father halls up high"