Paul Simon

We don't seem to have a general Paul Simon thread on ILM; we have threads on Hearts and Bones, and on Graceland, and polls polls polls but how about a general thread of Simon talk in addition.

I'm listening through his oeuvre today, and just listened to Live Rhymin', from 1974. I wanted to remark on the version of "America" that ends the album. Someone in the audience yells something like "say a few words!" Simon replies "Say a few words? Well, let's hope that we're...let's hope that we continue to live." He then plays a slow, quiet, and sad "America"; it's missing half its life, resigned, but resignation was in the air in 1974. It's a remarkable performance.

I grew up with Negotiations and Love Songs on cassette

I think he's classic as a songwriter
when his prose doesn't get too purple & ponderous

a lot of his recordings sound dated because of the production though

I'm with you on his lyrics; I listened through the whole Simon & Garfunkel oeuvre earlier today, and I cringe at some of his lyrics, especially on PSR&T. But from Bookends on I think he came to understand his own voice better. In short: he was wise to avoid trying to write like Dylan, because most songwriters end up sounding silly when they do that (cf. early Springsteen).

dunno how dated his records sound, or if they're dated it's not to their detriment -- I mean, sure, something like "Still Crazy" is pretty quintessentially 70s, but in the same way that say, Steely Dan is quintessentially 70s. Production on the whole is pretty sparkling and gorgeous to these ears.

btw Paul Simon was my first genuine rock concert. The 1990 (or 1989?) "Born At The Right Time" tour. I was 11 ... It was excellent.

halfway through One-Trick Pony now (my first listen to it!) and the production on all the records through 1980 sound fine. My brother, though, refuses to give Graceland a chance on account of its "dated" production, by which he means gated drums, mostly. While I think he's nuts for dismissing Graceland, I do see how gated drums sound of their time.

I really must buy me some Paul Simon. I own none of his records, but I know them reasonably well from my parents' record collection when I was younger. I mean this 5-disc Simon and Garfunkel set costs next to nothing.

The 1990 (or 1989?) "Born At The Right Time" tour. I was 11 ... It was excellent.

One of my first shows. I've told the story in one of the other Simon threads: it's still the only concert during which the performer played a Big Hit Single ('You Can Call Me Al'), then said, "Woo! That was great! Let's do it again!" and proceeded to play it again.

Is the song "The Dangling Conversation" meant to be ironic at all ?

I suspect not. His pre-Bookends lyrics leaned way into the "depressed teenager in a turtleneck" territory.

One of my first shows. I've told the story in one of the other Simon threads: it's still the only concert during which the performer played a Big Hit Single ('You Can Call Me Al'), then said, "Woo! That was great! Let's do it again!" and proceeded to play it again.

Man, that kinda bums me out. I saw Simon on the Graceland tour - I think that puts it around 87 or 88. I was twelve - it was my second concert (1st was Jimmy Buffett). Anyway, he did the exact same thing when I saw him. The crowd went so nuts after he played "You Can Call Me Al" that he (I thought) spontaneously said "We can do it again!", to which the crowd went nuts again. Makes me a little sad to know that was a rehearsed thing on his part.

On the other hand, there's something kind of wonderful about him being so premeditated about his set list. "...okay, and then at this point we play 'You Can Call Me Al' two times in a row..."

I mentioned it on the Unplugged thread, but the extra tracks on the 2005 (2004?) reissues are worth buying as individual songs. Hearts and Bones has a terrific acoustic-guitar-and-voice demo for "Train in the Distance."

I'm a stan, and bought Surprise for a few bucks at a Half Price Books -- so disappointing. Maybe there are better demos for those songs that will be released later.

I think it's much too twee & teen angsty, then

xxp

& I am wearing a turtleneck fwiw !

"Surprise" sucked imo, Eno's ambient shit added nothing to half baked song sketches

Another case for Paul Simon with just voice and guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd8ePfu7_pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1dlWmrRstc&feature=player_embedded

i think i've discussed this elsewhere, but his 1st "real" solo album (the one from 1972) is one of the great albums of its period.

and although i like much of the rest of his work (w/ and w/o garfunkel) it sort of towers above everything else.

his crappy lyrics pretty much go away after he broke w/ garfunkel. or at least the stratospherically crappy ones, anyway.

personally speaking, simon comes across like a bit of a dick, I think

If "dick" means "self-aware," sure. I can't accuse him of gratuitous cruelty to his lovers.

his 1st "real" solo album (the one from 1972) is one of the great albums of its period

I've been listening to this a lot recently. "Duncan" is a killer song.

Interesting to contrast "Duncan" with its demo version. "My wife and me took a home by the sea..."

Love this album. Sometimes I think Paul Simon's stuff from the S/T through "Graceland" (or sometimes if I'm feeling generous "Saints") is the best stuff ever. Once about every 5 years or so I go on a bender with it.

Then I get to feeling like an overstuffed couch and have to listen to some Misfits.

x-post Yep, Simon played the song twice at every stop. But who would complain, really? I last time I saw Joe Strummer, toward the end of the night, after he had already played "London Calling" and "White Man ...," he asked the crowd which of them they wanted to hear again. People voted "London Calling," and he played it again. Man of the people, that Strummer.

Funny this thread kicked in now, since I just took out my S&G albums to give them a listen for the first time. Them and Simon's solo albums are interesting to me, since scanning the back I know two or three songs per disc like the back of my hand, but few of the others - yet I know the song titles! Like "Dangling Conversation." I have no idea what that song sounds like, but I at least recognize the name. Weird.

I listened to One-Trick Pony last night for the first time, as I mentioned, and it was kind of a snoozer (granted, it was the 12th S&G/Simon record I played yesterday, haha). Any suggestions on what I should listen for next time?

Interesting to contrast "Duncan" with its demo version.

yeah, he tells a completely different story! weird, huh?

the s/t lp has some great singles and s&g-style BIG songs like duncan, mother&child reunion, me&julio, but i think the highlights are armistice day, peace like a river, and papa hobo. armistice day might be my favorite simon song, period.

my favorite Simon track just might be "Diamonds On the Soles of Her Shoes" from some deluxe version of Graceland, I think. It's totally stripped down, the only things on the track are Simon's vocals, Ladysmith Black Mambazo & bass

I meant to say "Diamonds On the Soles of Her Goes (Unreleased Version)"

Any suggestions on what I should listen for next time?

well "late in the evening" is so much better than the rest of the record that it doesn't need pointing out. but i like the title track too, and "long, long day." don't actually remember a lot else off the top of my head. i've never seen the movie, sort of curious about it.

I think She's The One is kinda underrated ... Maybe closest in tone/style to Hearts and Bones. Not Simon at his catchiest, maybe, but some good tunes/lyrics.

hmm, didn't he just do a bunch of reissues? http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/here-comes-rhymin-simon-on-a-different-label/?src=twt&twt=artsbeat

The current reissues sound amazing. I doubt there's much they could do to improve them, nor is there probably much in the vaults of note that didn't make the current batch.

This is like the Stones reissuing/remastering on a different label every few years.

i should get those reissues probably. all of my 70s-80s simon is on vinyl. bonus trax are good?

most of the bonus material I could take or leave, with the glaring exception of the alternate version of "Gone At Last" with the Jessy Dixon Singers from Still Crazy.

They run from really good to never going to play that again. But the sound on all the albums is pristine. He had the best of the best backing bands and they sound like the best - warm, clean 70s studio sound. I only have the three 70s records (I never warmed to the 80s work outside of a track here and there), but I understand the remasters are equally great if you care for the material.

xpost

I love the "Duncan" and "Take me to the Mardi Gras" demos.

This is like the Stones reissuing/remastering on a different label every few years

dunno what this means. abkco series came out 20+ years after the original cd releases. the reamaining ones came out about a year ago. it's not like Elvis Costello who's had about 4 This Years Models since 1987

xxxxpost

^^^Bowie is the other one who does this

and Zappa - all three of those guys got the "Rykodisc treatment", too, coincidentally

Stones issued Sticky Fingers on cd in 90, 94 & 09. Costello issued This Year's Model in 86, 93, 02 & 07. One more time - what a huge difference! Point is, these artists that control their catalog have huge incentive to switch labels and reissue stuff whenever they can.

Hell, I've bought the Soft Boys' Underwater Moonlight four times on cd. I'm an enabler.

i was actually thinking of the Stones' early ones, which only came out once before they were done perfectly in 2001 or whatever it was. had to take exception 'cuz there's a night and day difference between the two issues.
sorry for derailing on Paul Simon's watch

I wasn't clear to start - those abkco remaster are great. The Stones don't own those though so can't milk 'em.

A really talented guy who since the mid 80s has done the mistake of letting other people control a bit too much of his sound and songwriting style. "Hearts And Bones" is fantastic, and seems to be his peak. "Surprise" was an aptly titled Eno collaboration though, just need to relax the rhythm section even a good bit and find back to his good, old pre-"Graceland" style.

New album streaming on NPR. Sounds pretty good, glad to hear him dabbling in Afropop again, the rhythms overall are stronger than anything he's done in a long time (and I think rhythm is really key to his best songwriting).

He's touring the US and doing mid-sized halls and some club gigs (930 club and others).

this sounds good!

"dazzling blue" kinda dazzling!

Haven't kept up with his new output since Rhythm of the Saints (other than hearing the ghastly Capeman). This is nice, in a pleasantly unassuming sort of way. Nothing jumped out me after one listen but it was solid throughout.

you're the one is worth hearing.... surprise has its moments, but some of those moments are not so hot.

xps I've never been a huge Simon & Garfunkel fan for that reason, though I guess it's remarkable how much he grew as a lyricist, steadily improving right into his solo career. The only S&G records I really want to listen to are the last two LP's, Bookends and Bridge, and even they have moments that I'm not too crazy about, where they get too precious or lean in too hard into self-pity, etc.

I was listening to Negotiations & Love Songs and admiring what I perceived to be significant lyrical growth from the self-titled thru the late 80s.

Separately, I never listen to One-Trick Pony but "Late in the Evening" is such a monster track for him that really stands out in the context of that comp.

FWIW, what's pretty remarkable about his solo output through One-Trick Pony and maybe even Hearts and Bones is that if you mix together the highlights, they all sound apiece, like they could be from the same incredible album. Individually they all clearly have their own identity, but until he did Graceland there's a strong stylistic unity to much of his solo work.

Listened to Seven Psalms and it played as fairly stuffy and serious. Maybe suitable for a career coda, but not how I'd like to think of Simon after he's gone (hopefully never).

The audiobook is on Slsk if that's your thing.

I am very much in awe of Seven Psalms. While it's essentially a lengthy poem over relatively sparse acoustic music, I still find it very lush with beautiful guitar playing and clever, intriguing lyrics.

Listened to Seven Psalms and it played as fairly stuffy and serious.

It's a half hour musing on pretty serious stuff, but there are also funny moments and relativation. For example: "Good morning, Mr Indignation / Looks like you haven't slept all night / In my professional opinion / Go back to bed and turn off your light".
I also really love this bit: "The Lord is my engineer / The Lord is my record producer / The Lord is the music I hear / Deep in the valley of elusive"

I'm reluctant to be one of those ghouls who speculate about strangers' health, but his facial appearance and slight hand tremor in the trailer suggest he is dealing with Parkinson's.

That would be terrible, I hope you're wrong there and I hope Paul's still got some time to go. Interesting to note here that the final 'Psalm' includes the following bit:
"Wait / I'm not ready / I'm just packing my gear / Wait / My hand's steady / My mind is still clear"

"in my professional opinion" is such a Paul Simon lyric... I haven't listened to this yet but I can hear him singing it...

xp you're right, though I was referring to the music itself, which I'm still having a hard time finding a way in to

Wow this record is seriously great, top tier work IMO, one of the greatest things he’s ever released.

gorgeous

we’re blessed to have him <3

that Myriam Gendron records is one of the best of this century

Insider info or not I find that NYT excerpt in super bad taste. “This sounds like Paul Simon will croak any day now”.

he's such a good guitarist

yeah i was marveling at how he still knocks me out in all three facets
lyrically, there’s lines that just floor me with starkness or beauty or both
vocally, his voice still has the power to send me back to childhood in the best way
musically, his guitar playing sounded so good (idk any smart guitary words to say so “good” has to cover a lot of technical griund lol)

how is he still the best

He doesn't always play sophisticated guitar parts (because he has so many skilled subordinates) but lots of people have not what a fine, precise player he can be when he sets his mind to it.

In one mid-career interview he rummages around in a closet, pulls out a Martin and starts playing "The Coast" - which is demanding enough for anyone - so nonchalantly as to make it look easy.

I think about that sometimes. Dude could just casually write some of the best music ever, and yet still have extra effortless music that he might - might - eventually get around to recording.

*have noted

that Myriam Gendron records is one of the best of this century

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, June 9, 2023 12:19 AM (sixteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, it really is stunning. Quiet & methodical, and devastating in places. There's a density of meaning — each word has weight — that maybe you'd expect in formal poetry, but the poems work surprisingly well as songs. All to say this new album feels substantial in a similar way, despite how brief & airy it is.

yeah its not called “seven psalms” for nothing, he really leaned into that hymnal aspect, the searching within the lyrics is quite profound

https://www.laweekly.com/los-lobos-on-paul-simon-do-you-mean-zydeco-when-you-say-zy-decko/

It’s funny, I swear I heard Casey Kasem mention a lawsuit — or possible lawsuit — on American Top 40 around ‘86 or ‘87. I can’t remember the context, though, if he was introducing a Simon song or a Los Lobos song. But when I saw that Steve Berlin interview however many years ago I thought, “Oh yeah, I remember that.” I thought the lawsuit Casey mentioned might have had something to do with the production, which was all ‘80s-gated-drums awfulness.

you're thinking of this

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/los-lobos-steve-berlin-labels-paul-simon-a-jerk-alleges-graceland-snub/

oh wait, that's what the LA weekly link says too. sorry, i thought it was something different at first

Iirc, the initial lawsuit in the '80s was over "Gumboots", which was a pre-existing instrumentalk recording that Simon overdubbed lyrics on and then copywrited words & music to himself.

Graceland has more co-writing credits than any other Simon solo album.

which is to say: I think Simon played it pretty fair.

“Graceland” was one of the few CD’s my family owned when I was a kid - highly enjoyed it, but it’s also massively disappointing how much of it was stolen in some way from so many people - not just Los Lobos and Rockin' Dopsie (who weighed a lawsuit but decided it would be too costly) but above all Heidi Berg, and this is on top of the ongoing debate of cultural appropriation.

But true, in his defense, he granted quite a few cowrites. But I think it still falls short.

XP to Soto

Lawyers were involved., Lol.

I think he was generally more on the level with the rest of the African players on the album, but the Zydeco band who did the backing on "That Was Your Mother" also she's him and claimed an experience mirroring that of Los Lobos.

Ha, or what bird said.

But then again...

what was the controversy again, dq? was it that Ladysmith Black Mambazo weren't paid for appearing on the album or something?
― rener, Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:00 PM (twenty-one years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Paul Simon made the singers suck his dick
― Mike Hanle y, Monday, December 17, 2001 7:00 PM (twenty-one years ago) bookmarkflaglink

“Graceland” was one of the few CD’s my family owned when I was a kid - highly enjoyed it, but it’s also massively disappointing how much of it was stolen in some way from so many people - not just Los Lobos and Rockin' Dopsie (who weighed a lawsuit but decided it would be too costly) but above all Heidi Berg, and this is on top of the ongoing debate of cultural appropriation.

― birdistheword,

I suggest reading the Hilburn bio, which devotes a chapter to the question of sources, songwriting, publishing, local recording, and so on. At best I'll say Los Lobos didn't know what they were getting into when told they'd "jam" with Paul Simon.

It probably should be mentioned that Graceland was a real surprise blockbuster --Simon hadn't had a hit single in 5 years, and a big hit studio album in 10. Going in, few even thought this would be a course correction much less a license to print money.

that Myriam Gendron records is one of the best of this century

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, June 9, 2023 12:19 AM (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm

at any rate The Rhythm of the Saints is better.

You don't wanna know what Simon made those Brazilian drummers do to him tho.

we had a lot of fun
we had a lot of money

there's no... Proof

I suggest reading the Hilburn bio, which devotes a chapter to the question of sources, songwriting, publishing, local recording, and so on. At best I'll say Los Lobos didn't know what they were getting into when told they'd "jam" with Paul Simon.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 14, 2023 7:36 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

the fact that the dust jacket of the book makes it look like paul simon has hair tells me all i need to know about the trustworthiness of this bio as a source

Trust me as an expert in other people's trichotillomania.

Good seeing Seven Psalms on some year-end lists.

An inability to fall asleep in a cheap motel due to the loud sex that a couple is having next door sends Duncan off on a long reverie.

^^Underrated Gear! ILE thread title

I hope this Grammy weekend tribute to Paul Simon at the Troubadour was recorded.

Setlist:
Blind Boys of Alabama, “Loves Me Like a Rock”

Jason Isbell and Sadler Vaden, “Kodachrome”

Molly Tuttle and Ketch Secor, “Mrs. Robinson”

Natalie Lafourcade, “You’re the One”

Bobby Rush, “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover”

Ruthie Foster, “Slip Slidin’ Away”

John Vincent III, “The Only Living Boy in New York City”

Brett Dennen, “Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard”

Larkin Poe, “Paranoid Blues”

Susanna Hoffs with Grace Bowers, “Hazy Shade of Winter”

Gaby Moreno, “Late in the Evening”

Silvana Estrada, “El Condor Pasa (If I Could)”

Sean and Sara Watkins, “Hurricane Eye”

Madison Cunningham, “Kathy’s Song”

Andrew Bird and Alan Hampton, “American Tune”

Johnnyswim, “Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After the War”

Marcus King, “America”

Allison Russell, “The Sound of Silence”

Dwight Yoakam, “The Boxer”

Jackson Browne, “I Am a Rock”

Rufus Wainwright, “Bridge Over Troubled Water”

Rodney Crowell, “Graceland”

Finale, “You Can Call Me Al”

Part two:

“Bridge Over Troubled Water” from the @theTroubadour for @AmericanaFest’s pre-Grammy salute to “The Songs of Paul Simon” pic.twitter.com/yx9QqZiw9E

— Rufus Wainwright (@rufuswainwright) February 6, 2024

Jason Isbell and Sadler Vaden, “Kodachrome”

Fitting, as Patterson Hood's dad plays bass on the original!

That's a great lineup. Would have loved to see that last 6 song stretch in particular.

Rufus oh wow! <3

John Vincent III, “The Only Living Boy in New York City, New York, 10003, USA”

no rhythm of the saints appreciators among the bunch, apparently -- not my people!

(Yeah, I thought ‘City’ sounded odd at the end of that title, wondered if I remembered it wrong, but that’s from Variety.)

Anyone have MGM+?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/15/entertainment/paul-simon-restless-dreams-review/index.html

The Paul Simon doc, IN RESTLESS DREAMS, is remarkable. I remember before going to work at the mill when I was 18, putting a quarter in the juke and playing "I Am a Rock" and "April Come She Will." Made another 8-hour shift more bearable.

— Stephen King (@StephenKing) March 29, 2024

really want to see the doc!