seriously though, let's face it.
― caulk the wagon and float it, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:07 (twelve years ago) link
They're all the best, imo
― neutral sequence for flute (blank), Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:09 (twelve years ago) link
if i could keep Sister Ray i would pretty happily say goodbye to WL/WH
― caulk the wagon and float it, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:11 (twelve years ago) link
as long as we're agreed that the first one is the worst, because of that bloody awful nico "singing"...
― one dis leads to another (ian), Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:20 (twelve years ago) link
this is some kind of bizarro thread meant to piss me off
― akm, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:23 (twelve years ago) link
Whiney questioned me about this same opinion back in the day and on a different board none-the-less.
not sure if i still feel the same way but this album is up there.
― Bee OK, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:25 (twelve years ago) link
Sister Ray is the worst thing on WL/WH.
― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:36 (twelve years ago) link
Speaking of contrarian opinions. Honest opinion though.
*sucks on ding-dong*
― buzza, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:45 (twelve years ago) link
Loaded would be the worst one if it weren't for Squeeze
White Light > 3rd one > 1st one > Loaded
live ones and later one don't count there's just those 4 imo
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:46 (twelve years ago) link
loaded with filler
― iatee, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:49 (twelve years ago) link
"dudes you guys gotta hear this band, they're gonna change music as we know it"(puts on 'lonesome cowboy bill')
― iatee, Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:50 (twelve years ago) link
worst day of my life was the 3rd time I went to jail. 2nd worst day was when I heard the Loaded version of "Sweet Jane"
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:54 (twelve years ago) link
Aero got the order right up thread. Loaded is by far the worst of the canonical 4.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:31 (twelve years ago) link
it's not the best but it's the one i listen to the most.
yule rulez!
― buzza, Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:36 (twelve years ago) link
oh hell, i dunno. there is no correct order. they're all both brilliant and kind of irritating, but for different reasons. each one has songs i love and songs i very nearly hate. vu & nico has "venus in furs", "all tomorrow's parties" and "heroin", so it obviously can't be the worst. WLWH has the title song, "here she comes now" and motherfucking "sister ray", so it can't be the worse. self-titled has blankety-blank, and so on. loaded gets written off cuz it's too slick, too upbeat, not weird + dark + experimental like the VU are supposed to be, but it's also got four of the best goddamn rock n roll songs ever written, so haters get the gas face.
i think however that we all can and should agree that ian is wrong, and nico is great.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:51 (twelve years ago) link
aero have you heard the remixed/reissued version of the album where lou's vocals are restored? the producer really fucked w/Loaded first time around
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Thursday, 29 March 2012 09:38 (twelve years ago) link
kinda doubt that'd make a diff -- it's just the "heavenly wine and roses" bit on sweet jane (which a r&r animal stan doesn't care about) and a somewhat extended new age. but i could probably go along with loaded being the worst vu record, even though it is a great great album. didn't we already have a long thread about this?
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:13 (twelve years ago) link
no I haven't! but
the "heavenly wine and roses" bit on sweet jane (which a r&r animal stan doesn't care about)
tyler has my number, lol
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:20 (twelve years ago) link
Live '68
― (Dre) vs. (Eazy), Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:22 (twelve years ago) link
Same producer as the MC5's High Time. Dude either knew how to sniff out a swan-song, or carried a curse.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:32 (twelve years ago) link
High Time: best MC5 album, rite guys?
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:01 (twelve years ago) link
Intro on the Loaded version of "Sweet Jane" is gorgeous.
― timellison, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:06 (twelve years ago) link
aero have you heard the remixed/reissued version of the album where lou's vocals are restored?
Where are they restored? To what tracks? Anyway, Dougie Yule's vocals are great on this album.
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:14 (twelve years ago) link
Fully Loaded has demos/alternates galore, some with lou singing songs that doug sang on the released album ("oh sweet nothing" for ex.). The only differences with the actual album (aside from remastering) are like I said, the heavenly wine and roses in "sweet jane" and the extended outro in "new age." also some awesome VU versions of lou solo songs like "sad song" and "satellite of love".
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:18 (twelve years ago) link
There's a few extra bars of guitar chording prior to the solo in "Rock & Roll," also.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:20 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah I've got that, "restored vocals" suggested songs where Lou's vocals ahd been taken off and replaced with Doug's. Love the version of "I Love You" with *the chuckling Lou on it.
(*The Chuckling Lou <------- sounds like a fiddle tune or sumthin')
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:21 (twelve years ago) link
love the dylan-esque 'I found a reason' demo so much more than the final version
― iatee, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:22 (twelve years ago) link
(Withdrawn?) Single version of "Head Held High"!
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:22 (twelve years ago) link
while restoring the heavenly wine bit is cool in theory, it doesn't work -- the harmonies are all wacked out and the drummer pretty much flubs his fill. best realization of what lou had in mind for that part might be on the tots live album.
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:23 (twelve years ago) link
Extended outro on "New Age" doesn't work either, there's something odd about it, like it's been edited wrongly
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:24 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, like someone is patching in a bass part at the wrong spot. best version of new age is by farrrrrrr the one on Live 69 w/ Lou singing the original lyrics.
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:25 (twelve years ago) link
Loaded was the first VU album I heard, and while I liked it, I didn't get the fuss over them until I picked up Another VU. Over the years, the Loaded track that's ended up growing on me the most is Train Round The Bend, which I didn't notice at all back in the day. I may have said this before, but I'm pretty sure that if the lyrics were about buying drugs and having sex with a transvestite, it'd be regarded as one of their best...
Not being contrarian but honest: I listen to Squeeze *way* more than I listen to Loaded these days...
― dlp9001, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:40 (twelve years ago) link
― buzza, Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:36 AM
doug or billy?
― shur fine (am0n), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:46 (twelve years ago) link
3rd and 4th ones are boring... and responsible for more bad music than anything this side of Led Zeppelin.
WL/WH all the way!
― mr.raffles, Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:53 (twelve years ago) link
iatee mentioned that great out-take of 'I Found A Reason' which is just beautiful but my favourite track from the Loaded sessions is probably the vocal cut of 'Ride Into the Sun'.
― AnotherDeadHero, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:31 (twelve years ago) link
loaded verz of 'sweet jane' def the best one
― Lamp, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
It's also the only Velvets song you're likely to hear on "classic rock" radio (and always credited to "Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground").
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:37 (twelve years ago) link
Confirming this will flag the post for the attention of the moderators.
― buzza, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:41 (twelve years ago) link
j/k
Flagged for craziness.
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
POLL: How many times does Lou Reed say "suckin on my ding dong" in "Sister Ray"?
― caulk the wagon and float it, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:43 (twelve years ago) link
POLL: Why don't you count 'em up?
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:46 (twelve years ago) link
'how many times was she on that POLL?'
― Lamp, Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:51 (twelve years ago) link
we've definitely had this argument before
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
o come on there's no way the third album is better than the banana one? congrats on challops
― dies irate (loves laboured breathing), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
"Some Kinda Love" = 4 mins of straight garbage
― dies irate (loves laboured breathing), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:15 (twelve years ago) link
Some Kinda Challops
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
Between thought and expression lies 4 mins of straight garbage
― tylerw, Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
First time I listened to Loaded I fell asleep about half way through.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
Oh I'm not praising Yule's skillz so much as THAT basic hook. Easy to play, taken for granted.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 November 2013 19:14 (ten years ago) link
Changing "Sweet Jane" and "New Age" on the Fully Loaded version was such a bizarre idea. Make bonus tracks, sure, but to seriously mess with major songs from a major album that people had been listening to for 35 years? So strange.
― Mark, Saturday, 9 November 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I don't love the interpolated stuff either, it is weird. The only thing it sort of reminds me of is the CD of Money Jungle I have which has the songs in the order they were recorded rather than the original album sequence, so before you get to to the good stuff you have to sit through some lightweight warmup numbers at the beginning that I don't think made it into the LP.
― The Killer Inside Meme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 November 2013 01:49 (ten years ago) link
When I first heard VU and Nico I didn't get what was all the fuzz about. With Loaded I got it. This is a top 10 album of all time for me, vu and nico is great but I wouldn't add it anywhere near a top 100.
― Moka, Saturday, 9 November 2013 10:02 (ten years ago) link
Fell asleep halfway through my first listen of Loaded. First listen of VU&N keep me wide awake all night.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 9 November 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
but hadn't actually played bass w/ a rock band before (i guess he was playing guitar in previous bands)
So why choose him to play bass then? Also Cale played his last gig with the VU on the 28th September 1968 and Yule his first gig on 4th October 1968, so I assume Yule had been waiting in the wings, as it were, after all probably half of the VU set at the time was unreleased material (and he was recording the 3rd album with them just over a month later).
― Thomas K Amphong (Tom D.), Monday, 11 November 2013 11:32 (ten years ago) link
yule says: "I was a PIsces and they needed a Pisces to balance it out. John was a Pisces, Lou was a Pisces, Moe and Sterling were Virgos, they wanted to have this astrological balance."
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 15:22 (ten years ago) link
btw, all of this info comes from that unterberger book, which seems to me to be the best book on the VU. I don't always agree w/ his opinions regarding the music, but the dude has done a massive amount of research.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
this is their 'fun' record, the one to play at parties, unless u r a goff
― rip van wanko, Monday, 11 November 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
all of this info comes from that unterberger book, which seems to me to be the best book on the VU
Never read that... so where did I read the story Mo tells of when they were rehearsing with Yule, one of his first times, and he came up with the bassline for "Jesus" and Lou was all, "That is fantastic, Jeez, isn't this guy great?" or some such and Mo was like, "Hmmmmmmm, let's not blow this guy's ego up too much"?
― Thomas K Amphong (Tom D.), Monday, 11 November 2013 15:45 (ten years ago) link
that's in Uptight iirc. it is a pretty cool bass line tbh. yule says he basically spent a day w/ Lou right before that la cave gig learning about 30 VU songs.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
which is crazy! as noted, the songs are not super complex, but just keeping them straight in your head seems like quite a task. that la cave show is amazingly killer though.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
(xp) Yeah that's it, it was Lou reporting back to Mo + Sterling (who strike me as two people who were fairly hard to impress) the next day
― Thomas K Amphong (Tom D.), Monday, 11 November 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
Lost my copy of Upright, aargh, but a version of that story is also in a book called something like The Velvet Underground Reader
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
^^^ that reader is good shit
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 November 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
Mo + Sterling (who strike me as two people who were fairly hard to impress)
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
just watched a video of the 1st VU reunion in 1990 and sterling is pretty awesome in his i-don't-give-a-fuck-ness.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
Book is actually The Velvet Underground Companion: Four Decades of Commentary, edited by Albin Zak III, is that the same one, Alfred? Interview with Nico is hilarious. The editor wrote two books I've been meaning to read, The Poetics of Rock: Cutting Tracks, Making Records and I Don't Sound Like Nobody: Remaking Music in 1950s America.
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
yeah i have that one - it has some music students' thesis on sister ray, which compares it to madonna's "like a prayer."
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 16:47 (ten years ago) link
Must have skipped that one.
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
lol just looked it up, i was wrong -- not "like a prayer" -- "express yourself."
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 16:53 (ten years ago) link
he says that the "harmonic and melodic organization" of both songs "subvert the phallic narrative assumptions of standard western harmony."
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 16:54 (ten years ago) link
Don't go for second best, baby, don't you know you'll stain the carpet?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 11 November 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
Perhaps you preferred the prior piece, "Sylvia's Husband," by Donna Gaines.
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
haha, yeah, there is some interesting stuff in there. the 1968 review of white light white heat is kind of amazing, too, in that it's simultaneously pretty insightful and totally off its rocker (lots of mel lyman references).
― tylerw, Monday, 11 November 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
One good thing about the VU being a little under the radar back in the day is there wasn't an ocean of Baby Boomer inkspill about them to contend with. As far as I knew there was only whatever was in Trouser Press or The Voice, the Ellen Willis piece in Stranded and the CREEM guys calling Lou Butch Firbank.
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 November 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
http://scoobydoo.wikia.com/wiki/Butch_Firbanks
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 November 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
That had to have been written by Wayne McGuire, right?
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 12 November 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
indeed!
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 November 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
Ahahaha, thought so!
Guy was apparently a bit of a nutcase with some 'peculiar' views on race and other things
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 12 November 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
yeah, that's the dude -- some deep investigation here: http://black2com.blogspot.com/2004/08/do-any-of-you-remember-wayne-mcguire.html
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 November 2013 19:11 (ten years ago) link
I feel the need to respond to the OP with a resounding NO, Loaded suxxx and its defenders are deluded at best, every single one of these songs that has a live version is better served by said live version.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 12 November 2013 20:21 (ten years ago) link
happily deluded, then.
― chromecassettes, Tuesday, 12 November 2013 22:59 (ten years ago) link
I crap on this album too much, it's such a great record. Listened to it today on the way to the river. "Who Loves the Sun" is the perfect goth Beach Boys song. Twee Anti-Monkees. "I Found A Reason" inventing slowcore w music from the hearts womb. "You are what you percieve" so beautiful so simple so spiritual. A lot of this album is joyful, and joyful in a pure way wo the trappings of perversion and noise found on the earlier more experimental work. The triangle is mixed really loud on "Who Loves the Sun" and I love it.
This is the VU's "LA Woman", the blues rock last gasp, maybe Reed thought the band would be over soon and wanted to do hyper real satirical versions of the west coast hippie rock that the VU was always opposed to. Underneath the good vibes and "Head Held High" there is this sneering cynicism, the too fast punk pace of "Lonesome Cowboy Bill". The urban cowboy who just sleeps around and crashes on couches and needs you to hear him yodelayheehoo. This is Bizarro VU, anti-cheerleaders for the prom king.
There is some soul in this stuff. "Sweet Jane" and "Rock n Roll" are both lo fi Dylan sped up and run through a gospel filter.
"Oh Sweet Nothing" is really amazing. It's a shame The Marshall Tucker Band ripped it off, "Can't You See" is nearly the exact same instrumental performance. It's weird because in their hands it was woman-blaming southern machismo flexing, but in the hands of the VU it is beautiful asexual transcendental ephemeral.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 27 August 2015 05:05 (eight years ago) link
It's weird but I feel like "We're Only In It For the Money" and this have a lot in common.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 27 August 2015 05:06 (eight years ago) link
"Train Going Round the Bend" is AMAZING. Those guitars. It's a track that would fit perfectly on "Slanted and Enchanted".
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 27 August 2015 05:08 (eight years ago) link
I must hate Velvet Underground because I love this album - and it's actually one of my favorite albums of all time - but I don't really rate the rest of their work that high. All VU fans I've met think I'm being stupid for rating Loaded as their best but just a listen to, I dunno, 'Sweet Jane' and you can immediately hear the unbelievable scope of this album. Almost every song in here feels joyful and miserable at the same time. Take a look at these lyrics: “Jack is in his corset/Jane is in her vest/ and me, I’m in a rock and roll band.” the distinction is meaningless. Usually VU use a question and response on their lyrics which is mostly absent from Loaded. In Loaded it feels like they're just observers, not active and critical participants of their environment as they are in other albums. They dropped the dark, bleak band from previous albums and showed how they can contrast the rock rebellious spirit with pop sensibility just as easily.
The original version of the album is unfortunately a travesty: too many inner drama between the band, the label forcing needless edits and remixes of an album which was supposed to be 'loaded' with hits. If you're still unsure about this album the Fully Loaded and Peel Slowly editions correct some of this problems.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 27 August 2015 06:02 (eight years ago) link
It's by far the VU album I listen to the most, but of course it's not as "important" as the others. 12 people on ilm think it's da bestRanking the Velvet Underground studio albums
― niels, Thursday, 27 August 2015 12:59 (eight years ago) link
Favourite Velvet Underground album (with extra facility) say it's only five.
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:13 (eight years ago) link
However, Ten people say it's their Fourth fav VU album
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:15 (eight years ago) link
at the university gym last night, the 18-year-olds on the climbing wall were blasting this album, so it must be cool with the modern youth of today
― Brad C., Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:19 (eight years ago) link
xp haha, thorough msg board this
― niels, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:20 (eight years ago) link
The original version of the album is unfortunately a travesty
Pardon my French, but this is utter bollocks. Also have never bought the idea that there's some sort of tongue-in-cheek laughing-up-their-sleeves Zappa/Mothers thing going on with this album.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:48 (eight years ago) link
If there is, it's limited to "I found a reason"
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:49 (eight years ago) link
Good work on this thread by my friends from the Lou Guest DJ's on WPIX-FM Listening Thread, tylerw and Tom D.
― Exile's Return To Sender (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:55 (eight years ago) link
xp agree I never thought of it as an ironic record, not at all like Zappa to me, on the contrary it has a lot of emotional and sincere statements
― niels, Thursday, 27 August 2015 15:21 (eight years ago) link
It seems to be their most mainstream record. Most conventional pop but still has something of a subversive edge. I have the Fully Loaded version but might grab some version of the forthcoming one.
So once they've got through this they've reissued all the official during the lifetime Lps, or even slightly posthumous in this case. At least of the Lou years. Wonder what they will go onto next? Is there going to be anything further?
Might be nice to get some of the live stuff issued legitimately separately. Not sure on the legitimacy of the old bootleg stuff that has been put out outside of the boxsets. Has any of that been legit or all boot? Just seem to be selling through supposedly legit sites like Amazon.
― Stevolende, Thursday, 27 August 2015 15:30 (eight years ago) link
yeah there are random bootlegs (boston tea party, la cave etc) that seem to be just selling in an "import" kinda way on amazon and elsewhere. not sure if there's some kind of grey area there or if no one cares at this point. I imagine the next thing will be an expanded Live 69, w/ the complete matrix tapes + end of cole avenue. think there's still at least 45+ minutes (maybe more?) of the matrix stuff they annoyingly left off of the last 45th anniversary box set.
― tylerw, Thursday, 27 August 2015 15:34 (eight years ago) link
xpost yeah I'm probably over-emphasizing the irony, and in half the songs there is definitely no irony things like "Rock n Roll" and "Reason" are as vulnerable as VU have ever been. But I tend to write off the country rock songs and yesterday they seemed a bit sped up and more of a caricature, like mutant versions of songs off "American Beauty", than just deadpan dad rock. I would still recommend the album over any other VU to Grateful Dead fans. Not sure if that was on purpose (I can totally picture Lou being told to write some commercial tracks and sneering at west coast rock "I'll show you how to write a choogle") or VU just has this underlying sinister beauty that shows up no matter what.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 27 August 2015 16:38 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I sort of think of Loaded (outside of "Rock n Roll", "Reason", and maybe "New Age") as the apotheosis of Lou's Pickwick period tendencies, where questions of sincerity are beside the point.
― one way street, Thursday, 27 August 2015 18:56 (eight years ago) link