"OK Computer": Classic Or Dud?

(1) It speaks of man's fear of the times he lives in. This (personally speaking) has made it get more and more relevant as times goes on. I've heard it claimed as the first album to articulate this fear: anyone care to give a counter example?

(2) They didn't have to make it. They could have made The Bends pt.2 and the world would never have known what it missed. But there's a spirit lives in the hearts of men... Always a sucker for a good narrative, me.

(3) The conscious push away from being A Guitar Band. Obviously Kid A is further on this path, but I've been listening to a megamix of OK Computer, Kid A and Amnesiac, and it does feel of a piece.

(4) "A heart that's..."

I'm sorry: Radiohead are NOT the first people to address this issue.

And if you just mean, uh, scary computers'n'stuff: John Foxx's _Metamatic_/Gary Numan's _The Pleasure Principle_ — both (manifestly) superior musical artists and/or intellects.

Kid A though. Wow! I don't know what the hell he's on about, but it's just beautiful!

I really must reconsider my position on the Stones as just irrelevant rock dinosaurs. Hang on, this is the one with classic rock chugger Honkytonk Women on it. How freaked out and paranoid is that?

>_Pithecathropus Erectus_?

This doesn't sound likely to get past my "Jazz Wank" filters. Not that Instrumental Jazz can't sound claustrophobic (and I've quite liked being slipped a mickey on the last albums by Spiritualized and, erm, Radiohead), but it's apples and oranges to something with lyrics.

>_Germ-Free Adolescence_

Now this is more like it, by all accounts.

>I'm sorry: Radiohead are NOT the first people to address this issue.

You don't have to be sorry, you just have to answer the question. It was asked in all honesty (and much ignorance).

>And if you just mean, uh, scary computers'n'stuff: John Foxx's >_Metamatic_/Gary Numan's _The Pleasure Principle_

Okay, but you'll have to vouchsafe me a bodypart or something before I go get something by Gary Numan. This is the one with Cars on it, for god's sake.

>both (manifestly) superior musical artists and/or intellects.

Oh, just fuck off.

Instrumental vs lyrics/apples vs oranges: this makes no sense to me

One of Numan and Foxx MIGHT be in my top ten. Plainly Numan is a force-nine dimwit (and Yorke is... ?) but that just means GN's unable to censor or rationalise as effectively as We Smart Foax do. The clueless express many things better, because they don't notice, and sidestep.

Concept totally aside, "Cars" is a better record than any Radiohead will EVER make. This is basic.

The technological themes are also a red herring - unlike with the much crasser Grandaddy there's hardly any overt technofear on OKC - the alienation seems pretty much entirely societal (in classic rock style). "Cars" is a great single by the way, not so sure about the rest of Numan.

I think in the end the specific content and concept are a cover story to allow culture-paralysed types (not least the band) to enjoy Big Rock themes (fuck the system) and more importantly Big Rock sounds, which as Nicole suggests OKC has in spades. It'll age worse than their other stuff but a lot of it sure is pretty.

_OK Computer_ is classic, classic, classic. The song "Paranoid Android" alone makes it a classic album. The fact that it has "Climbing Up The Walls", "Lucky", "The Tourist", "Let Down", and "Exit Music (For A Film)" seals the deal.

Everyday I Die. Steel And You. My Love Is A Liquid. Zero Bars (Mr Smith). Me! I Disconnect From You. Are "Friends" Electric? Praying To The Aliens. When The Machines Rock. I Nearly Married A Human. This Wreckage. The Aircrash Bureau. Remind Me to Smile. Sleep by Windows. I Dream of Wires. Remember I was Vapour. Please Push no More. I Die: You Die. A Subway Called "You". Cry, the Clock Said. She’s Got Claws. Boys Like Me. My Brother’s Time. You Are, You Are. Music for Chameleons. We Take Mystery to Bed. I am Render. This Prison Moon. My Centurion.

Do you SEE!!

It's really sweet in some ways that he ended up marrying a fan.

That's all I have to say.

Arrrrrrgh.

How long is it before Solinger buys OK Computer again, since Tom just did? Arrrrgh. If I ever, ever, ever, ever have to hear OK Computer again in my life, I will commit suicide. I just can't talk about this album rationally. It's the most godawful whinging and everyone LOVED it. I'd actually rather listen to Gorillaz.

Similarly, direct lyrical depiction is different from abstract picture-painting. Old versus new REM. Or Kid A vs OK Computer. I couldn't call it a weaker or stronger album because I don't see a coherent theme in KID A to compare to. Amnesiac is as I said half-and-half.

No, Thom Yorke isn't a force 9 dimwit. He makes incredibly indulgent whiny music, but that's not the same thing as being as thick as most of his fans.

And I'm going to have to disagree about Gary Numan. Glam with the entrtainment value stripped out isn't really my cup of tea.

Now get ready for more "Dude, the Replacements rocked and if you don't like them YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ROCK AND ROLL!" type responses.

Classic. Yorke's lyrics never bothered me despite their ranting qualities (all you Destiny's Child fans, pause in thought about which 90s artists are the biggest whiners). The music is pretty much amazingly written and executed.

Oh, come on, Gary Numan? "Cars" sounds like it was written by a nitwit child with a synth (and not in a good way), with lyrics written by his older brother who just read 1984 in tenth grade English class. And you can go on all you want about how it was an amazing bit of paranoid futurist chart pop, but between "Cars" and "No Surprises", which is/will be more dated?

Heh heh heh...

(They're not really comparable lyrically, though - Pulp's "The Fear" covers similar territory to "No Surprises" (and a lot of OKC), but does it with more wit, sympathy and humanity.)

(I won't say all, because I own the Numan-Sharpe LP, which is only better than Orwell's earlier unfunny stuff.)

Oh, ummm, "OK Computer", yeah, its a pretty good album. Its no "Pleased To Meet Me" though.

But sadly not flirty fishing, like religous cults use.

"pointless distrust of basic human interactions" is the best description of Yorke's lyrical failings (and in my weaker moments, strengths) that I've ever seen. Cheers.

Tom was right to note that the subject matter and vague reachings towards 'concept' are red herrings. Do you get off on the sonic fun of _OK Computer_ or not? On that level I do, and it's great. I can't agree completely on the late eighties Simple Minds comparison, though -- that bunch were perfectly sculpted (listen to _Street Fighting Years_ -- I DARE YOU), whereas Radiohead were trying to sound perfectly unsculpted, intentionally rough around the edges. Perhaps the same approach via different means, I'll grant.

What I think is interesting about the claim regarding 'pointless distrust of human interaction' -- and that *is* a great line -- is that clearly the lyricist and the person are two different things. An obvious point, but still -- after all, would the figure outlined in the lyrics actually have had a girlfriend for a decade, plus one baby? ;-) One more reason why I don't look for depths where they are overdetermined by others...

As for the Replacements, they're dead. Well, one is.

*goes back and look at that Replacements thread*

Pfft. Hey, Mr. Baier, it's called decaf, try it sometime.

I think its about time we just put up the question to end all questions: "Taking Sides: Loveless vs OK Computer vs The Stone Roses vs Nevermind".

*shudder*

The question you are perhaps thinking of is The Plan vs Telekon vs vs I, Assassin vs The Berserker

pedestrian f'ing four armed rhythm section

on Pyramid Song, for example, he manages to make a pretty complicated composition and time signature sound very natural, and that isn't easy!

He makes a 4/4 time signature sound complicated (which is even harder!)

XP to Brad, I feel that given how far the band try to stretch themselves with melody, texture, structure and arrangement, it's a bit of a shame that they have a tweedy, mid-tempo and slightly stiff sounding bassist and drummer.

I like his drumming and kinda don't want to hear them with a drummer's drummer (although I wouldn't mind if Clive Deamer got to play on some records, he's got chops but is super tasteful and used to emulating breakbeats, vis a vis those Portishead and Roni Size records).

xp oh, you're right!
https://www.quora.com/In-what-time-signature-is-Radioheads-Pyramid-Song

Feel like Colin and Phil are necessarily conservative considering how far out the other three can get. I agree with Brad though about some of his parts and fills functioning as hooks, I think “Morning Bell” is defined by that drum part.

yeah, totally agreed on morning bell. i wonder if he took lessons before the Kid A / Amnesiac sessions? Colin took lessons before the bends

With regards to Colin and his bass playing, I found this recent interview to be an interesting read... https://bassmagazine.com/artists/colin-greenwood-how-to-disappear-completely

wow that interview rules

I will forever be on Team “Pyramid Song is in 12/8”

I don't distinguish between 4/4 and 12/8 :)

Yeah, Colin seems like such a lovely guy and it's obvious that he absolutely loves being in the band, which is heart-warming. He's clearly got a lot of dedication to his bass playing as well. xxp

I dunno if the 'Phil Is Bad' crew have seen either of the From The Basement videos but he seems amazing in those.

want to be clear that i only think phil was bad bad from the time of his birth until the kid a / amnesiac sessions

today i listened to disc 7 - i enjoyed this one a lot, goes from thom singing the customer satisfaction blurb on a consumer product to a "beautiful jam" to karma police with the chorus "this is what you get when you fuck with me" to a jammed out "let down" (forget all the talk about the nonexistent "12 minute paranoid android", "7 minute let down" is my jam) to an interminable whiteboy funk jam that thom opines sounds like station to station... no thom, it's more like wild cherry, but we love you anyway

are there cuesplitter files for the official flacs like there were for the boot mp3s?

Phil is often my favourite element of Radiohead - couldn’t disagree more that he has no “feel”, he makes even a simple rhythm swing and pulse for me. cf Decks Dark on the last album. He has improved a great deal, it’s true, but I greatly prefer late period anyway.

xp Cues for the official bootleg are in progress at http://www.on-a-friday.com/MiniDiscs-Hacked/

oh same place as before, makes sense :)

had to go back on the Reddit to find that. Dude made a new directory on his super secret server.

Looking forward to making a compilation out of the best bits of all this plus the box set tape. All of this was fun but it's not like I'm ever going to listen all through again.

Also Reddit thinks the new Thom solo album is imminent

Also, are Phil's solo albums good?

Who were the great British drummers of the 1990s? I cant imagine many (if any) of them were in guitar bands. Reni maybe, but he fucked off.

I'm not sure I could name great pop/rock British drummers from the 80s or 00s or 10s, actually !

Isn't the guy from Muse highly regarded?

David Francolini of Levitation/Dark Star

Presumably samplers and drum machines have a role to play in that.

lee harris
stephen perkins
colm ó cíosóig
matt cameron
reni
chris sharrock
mike joyce
sheila e
neil conti
david palmer
steve jansen
fred maher
...

Matt Cameron and Sheila E are not British, wtf I will not stand for this slander. (neither is Stephen Perkins, but you can have him if you want)

(love that Colin Greenwood interview btw)

right, my bad, read too fast...

Oh good, I thought I was falling for a joke I didn't understand :)

hehe

yeah, totally agreed on morning bell. i wonder if he took lessons before the Kid A / Amnesiac sessions? Colin took lessons before the bends

― i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Wednesday, June 12, 2019 3:56 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So did Phil, apparently!

http://www.coneysloft.com/magazine/2017/9/7/phil-selway-interview
I actually went back to college early on in Radiohead to advance my drumming skills. It was in the period between Pablo Honey and The Bends and I realised that there were aspects of my technique that were holding me back. As I was self-taught musically – in all aspects – it’s easy to pick up bad habits and I wanted to get rid of them. I did lessons for about 5-6 months and they gave me some fundamental principles that have helped me throughout my whole career.

lee harris
stephen perkins
colm ó cíosóig
matt cameron
reni
chris sharrock
mike joyce
sheila e
neil conti
david palmer
steve jansen
fred maher

Good list! I was thinking of Mike Joyce and Reni.

I do find that interesting, when particular band members upgrade btwn albums/periods, like the Manics' Sean Moore going from being replaced by a drum machine on Generation Terrorists to being a beast on Holy Bible not too much later

Colin seems like a nice lad

I actually went back to college early on in Radiohead to advance my drumming skills. It was in the period between Pablo Honey and The Bends and I realised that there were aspects of my technique that were holding me back. As I was self-taught musically – in all aspects – it’s easy to pick up bad habits and I wanted to get rid of them. I did lessons for about 5-6 months and they gave me some fundamental principles that have helped me throughout my whole career.

oh hey me too phil!!!!

Good list! I was thinking of Mike Joyce and Reni

Joyce is a really great team with Andy Rourke, and definitely "good" on the Julian Cope and late-90s Mighty Wah! tracks he plays on, but I dunno that there's anything remarkable about him, let alone great. And he doesn't work enough to be able to tell! His last three decades have apparently been: take a gig, be good enough to be asked to stay on, insist on more money than anyone can afford, do nothing for 3-7 years, repeat.

Rourke on the other hand was (is?) a sick bassist. I have no idea what he did after The Smiths.

Yeah I’m not sure M. Joyce could be considered a great drummer...

lol Am I crazy considering Colin one of my favorite bassists? Does he not write his parts? Because imo Radiohead's bass is consistently outstanding -- I've thought so ever since hearing "Airbag" and "Talk Show Host."

his soul/funk influences definitely creep in those basslines

Worth reading the interview upthread

yeah Colin talks about how he writes his basslines in that interview, it's a great read & i agree he's generally outstanding. there's the occasional one that Thom wrote though - "The National Anthem" is the obvious one but he played a lot of bass in the Kid A/Amnesiac sessions so there's probably a few others from that time. "Where I End And You Begin" is another

there are also bass lines that might be the result of nigel/thom cutting things up after the fact - 'airbag' comes to mind as a possibility there. the drums, at least, are heavily edited, and the start/stop bass line sounds like i might have been created using a similar process. however it was made, it's one of my favorite radiohead bass parts

airbag wasn't cut up, it was just Colin left gaps where he hadn't come up with parts yet and intended to finish it later but they ended up happy with it like that

Ah, that’s cool.

On some of the early rehearsals of ‘Airbag’ on the recently leaked minidiscs, it sounds like he was playing his True Love Waits part over the top

excellent: https://thequietus.com/articles/26675-radiohead-minidiscs-hacked-review

the kind of brash confidence a band exhibits when it isn’t really confident about the material

this will stick with me

I liked reading that Quietus piece, but to be honest, what little of this Radiohead content drop I've dug into has revealed that, at least to my ears, it hasn't revealed much. That is to say, it's so all over the place it doesn't give away the secrets to the universe or anything. It reminded me of the U2 sessions that leaked right before Achtung Baby. They're full of all sorts of stuff, from blues jams on up, and one of the few things that paves the way to Achtung Baby, a song or riff they keep coming back to, doesn't even end up on the album. Just an interesting snapshot of a band working things out.

yep pretty much. I agree with the reviewer that mostly you're hearing an easier road not taken. A lot of earlier 90s style castaways. I thought the hype about Lift around the "OKNOTOK" reissue was overblown (and I heard and loved Lift from bootlegs in the 90s), all this stuff about not wanting the radio hit. But when you hear the sort of material that would've gone along with an album led by Lift (Attention, Funky Clothes, I Promise too), you know that wasn't just marketing talk.

xp Yeah the U2 sessions they play bits of in the Achtung Baby documentary.. it's exactly what these sessions remind me of; random bits that you recognise amid the mess, or in the 'wrong place'.

I wonder how much of this process — "Just an interesting snapshot of a band working things out" — is even that typical any more, given the decentralisation of recording/writing process enabled by laptops.