Lee 'Scratch' Perry: The Wonderman Years C/D

also Jungle Lion is a classic, as are the Junior Byles ones. don't recognise most of the others tracks though.

No, I don't know the Bob Marley ones.

http://www.trojan-records.com/tr%20secure/trojan/library/leeperrywondermanyears.htm

The things I know off there look pretty great. I guess I have between a third and hlaf of this stuff, and I like it.

this is a great compilation. like it more than arkology probably. they both have the problem of sequencing multiple versions together, makes it hard to listen to sometimes. i don't know, listening to versions together to "compare them" doesn't seem terribly interesting to me. i usually listen to both this and arkology on shuffle b/c i feel it helps me appreciate the individual versions on their own merits. that 5-song stretch of 'police & thieves' versions on arkology gets a bit tedious

ha yeah I know what you mean, I enjoy that there's dozens of versions of the same rhythm but I don't want to listen to them all in a row. Was struck by this when listening to the Yabby You Jesus Dread comp recently.

yea, you lose a sense of what makes each of them special when you hear them sequentially imo.

but yea this comp also has "words of my mouth" by the gatherers which has to be top 5 best/heaviest riddims ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdgBX8tkx4E

huh hadn't heard this version before

oh yeah that Yabby You is great but one of the worst offenders w/r/t multiple versions strung together

this one looks cool, Perry's discography is so confusing that all I have is Arkology, Blackboard Jungle, and some weird from-the-vaults comp

yea i think wonderman years collects shit from the early 70s towards the end of his collaboration w/ the wailers up to the very early days of the black ark

this is the other one I have, it looks like some of the same earlier stuff?

http://www.discogs.com/Lee-Perry-Lost-Treasures-Of-The-ARK/release/1105901

yea looks like a little overlap.

has anybody wade into the post-black ark years, e.g., lol, the past 3 decades of perry's work? what's there? i know he's been reasonably active and there's been lots of collaborations but i'm just not aware of any of it. i guess he has a new album out? back on the controls? i was listening on spotify a little and it's cool but it definitely has that modern studio roots sound that really jars with its anachronisms

oh yeah that Yabby You is great but one of the worst offenders w/r/t multiple versions strung together

this one looks cool, Perry's discography is so confusing that all I have is Arkology, Blackboard Jungle, and some weird from-the-vaults comp

― sleeve, Friday, July 25, 2014 10:18 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also dude you need to get ape-ology right now!

excellent, thanks

has anybody wade into the post-black ark years

I heard a few things back in the late 90s - Experryments at the Grass Roots of Dub w/Mad Professor was one I remember. Hard to say who did what on some of those collabs, mostly sounded like Scratch toasting over other producers' rhythms to my ears, and the cold, digital feel of things didn't really grab me. (Which is not to say that I don't like post-80s digital dancehall/reggae cuz I do, just that it all seemed sort of fussy and busy and mismatched).

Open the Gate and Build the Ark are both essential comps (Build the Ark does do the "original followed by the dub" format which yeah gets tedious if you're not a shuffler listener).

"has anybody wade into the post-black ark years"

Sherwood stuff very good. Everything else not so much.

fucking love this song, one of the weirdest of scratch in the 70s, what exactly is going on in it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drzbM217JY

yeah this is a classic. always think the very start sounds like a Blur b-side or a Gorillaz song.

one of the reasons it's so strange is that the lyrics and vocal melody are from an old Bollywood song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8RDpfkOCKc

oh shiiit... that's some good knowledge rob. i had a feeling something like that might be the case.

yea i was totally wondering what language the lyrics are

wondered if it was amharic or something (given precedent in reggae, e.g. abyssinian) but i was way off

it really sucks when the youtube videos disappear like this :(

what were marcos and rob talking about??

I'm obsessed with this sound. Can you point me to more early, super compressed, groovy tracks like this? "African Herbsman" and a lot of the early Bob tunes are like this too. I'm familiar with the comp in thread title. "People Funny Boy" comp seems ... a year too early maybe? idk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNJwZkhD96w

OK, i think this is what i might want: 2xCD from Cherry Red subsidiary released in 2019:

https://i.discogs.com/6vxW_TuaLhv7_Wjs2-_OQZZDt-KnEZP2UlgODIfeGaE/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:468/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEzNDc4/MTk5LTE1NzM3Nzk2/MTUtNDU3NS5qcGVn.jpeg

what were marcos and rob talking about??

― budo jeru, Thursday, August 31, 2023 6:47 PM (fifty-two minutes ago)

dead youtubes are a scourge

we were talking about the fact that "Bird in Hand" from Return of the Super Ape is based on "Milte Hi Aankhen" from the movie Babul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Mz6gUFvcg

pretty wild!

you're on the right track with that comp, I think. 1969-72 is such a cool era for reggae. A random pick I'm extremely fond of: Clancy Eccles Freedom

thanks. i think there was a cover of that tune on a Mississippi Records mixtape I used to have and desperately wish I still had!

maybe i can dig it out, idk

No, it was that tune. And it was Domino Sound, not Mississippi

https://www.discogs.com/release/3560099-Various-Hotter-The-Battle

I remember around age 14 hearing Wailers tunes like "Duppy Conqueror" and "Small Axe" and just being floored. It wasn't until later, maybe college, that I learned that those were Lee Perry joints. And I think then, and ever since then, I've always kind of looked around in the Lee Perry catalogue looking to scratch that itch, as it were. And Lord knows I've found some really cool stuff, even if it hasn't been that exactly. But it wasn't until I heard that Reggae Boys track that I thought, well, maybe there actually is more of that '69-'70 sound / arrangement with the beautiful vocals and the sound that's just ... I don't know, pulsating with life? It sounds like the board and the tape can barely contain the music and there's just this kind of throbbing bounce that has all these cool interesting sounds popping in from all over. But I feel weird, like ungrateful or something. Because when I listen to the Upsetter / Wailers tracks, I'm pretty sure it's all I will ever need in life.

There's a whole series of 2cds put out by Trojan at the time they were being handled by Sanctuary that are quite stunning. Both cds near full-length and we'll tracklisted.
I have a catalogue from the time which I'm not sure how complete it is since there May be titles released after it. It also has the clamshell series which were 3 or 4 cds in a cardboard clamshell box.
I have a number of the titles but could also do with having more. Do have 2 Lee Perry from the time I Think, certainly the set from the thread title and about 4 later when they were compiling lps together Ape-ology, Dub Triptych, Dubstrumentals and a couple of others plus a much more recent set of early 70s Upsetter backed lps that look like a companion to a set talked about yesterday.
Also have sets by Toots & The Maytals, Prince Far I, The Wailers, King Tubby, Keith Hudson, Ken Boothe and the dub compilation.
I think several titles were later reissued with black and white covers a decade or so after release. There have been later Trojan 2cds but I think they're from a different series.

The Perry/ Wailers material is in the series I just mentioned as Trenchtown Rock. That compiles a load of material cut in the late 60s in Jamaica plus a lot from about 10years later cut in London. Plus 14 tracks cut with other producers in the mid 60s I think one of these producers is Niney the Observer.

ActWally looks like Money was the subject of the song Mr Chatterbox which is here. He'd had a falling out with Bunny Lee.
& the early tracks here are produced by Leslie Long who released several singles by the very early band.

The title of the set may be unfortunate since it is also the title of a loadvof other compilations. Though this one does have a The Anthology to differentiate it. Plus photos of the band not just Marley.

First line there was actually looks like Niney until autocorrect got to it.
This autocorrect version is being a pain.

Clint Eastwood / Many Moods of probably constitute a high-water mark of the super-perky compressed sounds you're after, Budo, but IMO you can't go wrong with any of the LPs around that time: Return of Django, The Upsetter, Scratch the Upsetter Again, Eastwood Rides Again: all gold IMO.

The first Perry reissue I ever bought was the Upsetter Box Set (Rhythm Shower, Double Seven, Africa's Blood) and I love it from start to finish. That may have something to do with the fact I played it to death back then, but I'd recommend it to anyone and it's available cheap on CD currently as The Trojan Albums Collection 1971-1973, with the amazing Battle Axe included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYmMMWZ-5-o

That's the more recent set I was talking about a couple of posts ago. I was in Dublin very shortly, didn't get a chance to hit the record shops I wanted to, did get into the smaller Tower and they had that and very little of what i had actually been looking for. It is pretty great.

I'm now seeinmg that Dub Triptych and Dubstrumentals are only a couple of years after the first wave of Sanctuary Trojan sets . I think I came across them a bit later. I've definitely got a mental interval. It may have taken me a while to start picking titles up.
I think my introductions were the Grand Royal article on Perry which I though had me looking for several titles and then gettimg Arkology though I may have had some bits of his work dotted around elsewhere beforehand.
I have a biography of him called People Funny Boy somewhere too.

Right, wasn't sure that was the one you meant.

There just seems to be an infinite amount of spectacular stuff from Jamaican around this time, like you pick up a new 2CD set, you've been listening to this stuff for more than 30 years and you've never heard 30 of the 50 tracks... and they're all really good. The Sanctuary sets get hard to find but don't worry there are a ton of Doctor Bird CD sets instead (with mostly different stuff). It's amazing.

(Not Perry but I've been enjoying the recentish reissue of "Darling Ooh" by Errol Dunkley, which I'd managed not to get hold of in previous reissues.)

I remember around age 14 hearing Wailers tunes like "Duppy Conqueror" and "Small Axe" and just being floored. It wasn't until later, maybe college, that I learned that those were Lee Perry joints. And I think then, and ever since then, I've always kind of looked around in the Lee Perry catalogue looking to scratch that itch, as it were. And Lord knows I've found some really cool stuff, even if it hasn't been that exactly. But it wasn't until I heard that Reggae Boys track that I thought, well, maybe there actually is more of that '69-'70 sound / arrangement with the beautiful vocals and the sound that's just ... I don't know, pulsating with life? It sounds like the board and the tape can barely contain the music and there's just this kind of throbbing bounce that has all these cool interesting sounds popping in from all over. But I feel weird, like ungrateful or something. Because when I listen to the Upsetter / Wailers tracks, I'm pretty sure it's all I will ever need in life.

― budo jeru, Thursday, August 31, 2023 10:27 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

The first versions of "Kaya," "Natural Mystic," and "Small Axe" were all from random compilations and I guess all from Perry-produced demos? Album versions all sound fine, but hearing them immediately made me scramble for the bootleg versions. Especially funny since the unifying quality is that the production sounds "worse" on all of them, but all sound better and infinitely looser.

I'm not sure if Perry's 4-track technique took some inspiration from Phil Spector's work with The Crystals and The Ronettes, but the end result – extremely flat but maximally full – always sounded similar to me. Always figured there was something about how the vocals are recorded / arranged that was clicking with me.

I first encountered those tunes on this 3xCD box set, which you can get on Discogs for around $3.

https://i.discogs.com/MXx2e3qggzDh6_44Zw25AxvjQxSZ_iFl0UUqaFb-3gA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:530/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTM0MTc3/MjctMTMyOTYzNzU1/My5qcGVn.jpeg

The first version of "Kaya" is on SOUL REVOLUTION PART II, right? I don't think they are demos, unless you're referring to something I haven't heard.

sorry, meant to link it: https://www.discogs.com/release/3417727-Bob-Marley-The-Best-Of-Bob-Marley

any of the LPs around that time: Return of Django, The Upsetter, Scratch the Upsetter Again, Eastwood Rides Again: all gold IMO

Thanks, Tim. I'm going to check these out.

Pleasure. Thinking about the "beautiful voices" part of your question: here are three not-Perry (roughly) single-artist LPs that I love unreservedly, one song from each, you may of course be all over these already.

1. The Kingstonians: Sufferer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19LZOyxIJ6w

2. Johnny Osbourne: Come Back Darling: (the 2CD version of this is particularly good if you can find a copy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIqbNRLJos

3. The Inspirations: Reggae Fever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mt95sOD0hA

A general reggae question. Or musing?

Normally I'm not interested in remixes or new versions of songs, but with reggae I have a seemingly endless enjoyment of this. Sometimes the versions aren't even that different, but on something like Arkology or Junior Murvin's Police & Thieves deluxe version, it will have loads of versions one after the other and it's just the best.

Or the complete Upsetters box by the Wailers and Perry where there will be the regular track, an instrumental version, a dub version, an alternate version, etc, and it winds up sounding like a very long mix that goes on forever.

But with electronic music, or just about anything else, No, No, No. I'm not sure why this is but it definitely feels like something that is baked into reggae. I remember reading reviews of reggae albums on Allmusic and sometimes they would write negatively about albums that were in the showcase format, where the dub version immediately follows the regular version. Before I had much experience with reggae that sounded horrible to me, but Allmusic was wrong. This is a great way to present the music but I don't know that it would work that well with any other kind of music.

What about reggae makes this work so well?

Tbf it's always difficult to tell if they're demos, alternate takes, releases from previous albums, etc.

The Soul Revolution Part II version of "Kaya" is *so close* to the one I heard first. It's essentially the same but lmao the production on the one I like is slightly shittier. Heh can't even find a version of it on YouTube, and the only place I can find it on Apple Music is on a Gregory Isaacs comp called Rasta Friends, this track. Very, very similar, but the difference esp. in the vocals is noticeable if you listen the versions back-to-back.

I'm sure the comps I found all these random tracks on were compiled from more official compilations, but the ones I bought were bootleg CDs from street vendors in Guadalajara MX and Quito in the late 90s (with the earliest stuff popping up on 1st wave ska comps) that were compiled pretty whimsically.

Thanks for that 3XCD link though – I bet a lot of those are similar/same, though. Either way, took me a while to figure out that the Wailers sound I loved was almost exclusively the stuff Perry worked on. This is the sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeQy4CE9bto

I think that's the version recorded in 1975 at Black Ark and sounds 100X better than the rerecorded version a few years later.

(those are all great recs btw, Tim)

Is it possible the first version you heard was the same but badly bootlegged mastered?

(I am not paid up to listen to the version you posted, sorry if my question is dumb)

Yes that's almost certainly it, thank you. The vocal take does sound the same, and I think the track length difference is just a slightly longer outro on Soul Rev.

Great tunes, Tim! Love 'em.

Here's another one that scratches the itch, both the jerky sound and beautiful vocals. One of my favorite songs for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckb4N_VwMyQ

drum machine on the OG "Natural Mystic" sounds awesome; it's the same version on the 3xCD i linked for sure