'if on a winter's night a traveler': embracing postmodernism, or hoisting it on its own thingamajig?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I just finished this, and apart from the general predictable "wow" reaction, I also am wondering whether it represents an embrace or indictment of postmodernism? The theme is as postmodern as you can get -- the book contemplating the Reader contemplating the book, etc. -- but its argument between the enveloping, spiritual approach to reading (Ludmilla) and the didactic, ideological, theoretical approach (Lotaria) is heavily tilted toward the former (which is the object of both the Reader's and the author's desire).

I mean, Calvino is completely comfortable playing in the fields of metafiction, but he also seems contemptuous of anyone who mistakes the ball for the game (for want of a better metaphor). The whole book is a testament to What Happens Next. It celebrates mystification, nowhere more than in the last fragment where the narrator analytically strips the world down one layer at a time but discovers at the end that it's all in the service of some government plot and he misses all the things he stripped away.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Anyway, it's a great book, isn't it?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:51 (nineteen years ago) link

it was pretty fun. i guess i understand what pinefox was saying abt how pycnhon is not pomo but rather, hippie stoner man.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 January 2005 08:56 (nineteen years ago) link

When you understand what the pinefox was saying, that is an early warning sign.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 22 January 2005 09:06 (nineteen years ago) link

btw hippie stoner man >>> pomo witfuck

i will try to post someting "deep" tomorrow

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 January 2005 09:50 (nineteen years ago) link

John D's comment is generous. Thanks, John. Casuistry's I don't necessarily understand: 'sign' of what? Probably it's not important.

I'm afraid I don't like this novel by Calvino, which I read 5 years ago. I suppose it has certain intricate ways of cleverness, but I seem to remember thinking it was too driven by sexuality.

the bellefox, Saturday, 22 January 2005 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I read it years ago and I was of two minds about it, perhaps because it seemed to be two books( or perhaps even more)- I loved all the pastiches, but the underlying conspiracy theory plot just kind of wore me out. This is a general problem I have with Calvino- he is a talented writer, but my enjoyment of his work guess book by book, chapter by chapter, because while he is often able to breathe life and comedy into what he is doing, too often his stuff reads like a cold intellectual exercise. Maybe my favorite book by him is Marcovaldo, about an Italian everyman who tries to find the magic in everyday life and is always thwarted in the end.

Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 22 January 2005 15:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, it's not a conspiracy theory plot, exactly -- I mean, he uses the form of a conspiracy theory, but it's supposed to "make sense" narratively. The whole point of the book is the contemplation of the relationships between reader and book, book and author, author and reader. Driven by sexuality? Only as a metaphor for the consummation of those relationships (or its frustration, or its insufficiency).

But what I guess I mean in the thread title is that the book is metafiction, but it's metafiction about the perils of metafiction. It uses (then) trendy critical theory to puncture the critical theory itself. Or so it seemed to me.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 22 January 2005 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean, it's not supposed to "make sense" narratively...

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 22 January 2005 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

pinefox, i think, perhaps, i have finally found someone yet more sexually repressed than myself. congratulations, to me, you.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I read this last year and quite enjoyed it. I kind of read it as a book of short stories with some sort of superstructure holding it all together. If there was a common theme among all the stories, then it eluded me. The way that he embeds them in the adventure of the Reader character is quite clever though. It seems to be that there are some particularly brilliant moments when it seems like he's writing the story but at the same time he's writing about the experience of reading the story. It's something I hadn't seen done before in quite that way. I should probably try to find a specific example. It's kind of interesting also the way each story is representative of a whole type of story - but yet they go beyond mere parody.

o. nate (onate), Sunday, 23 January 2005 00:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Ah, gypsy mothra, your explanation has upped the ante-maybe I missed one of the meta-levels on first reading. I suppose I will have to reread it one of these days.

In any case, I pulled out my copy of Oulipo Laboratory which has a little thing by Calvino called "How I Wrote One of My Books" containing little structuralist squares for each numbered chapter of the book. The first page of this has all the squares and it looks like a sideways pyramid, with the first and last chapters having one square each and the middle two chapters having six squares each. Maybe if I look hard enough I can find the one that corresponds to "when it seems like he's writing the story but at the same time he's writing about the experience of reading the story."

Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 23 January 2005 02:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I didn't really enjoy the pastiches, mostly because when I read it (and this was surely 10 or so years ago) I didn't recognize most of what was being pastiched. So I would skim ahead and mostly read the meta-story, which I quite enjoyed.

Marcovaldo is easily my favorite of his books. Harry Mathews has an essay about Calvino's funeral in which a whole class of schoolkids come, saddened over the loss of Marcovaldo's creator.

(Pinefox I am merely flirting with you insincerely, do not be alarmed.)

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 23 January 2005 04:50 (nineteen years ago) link

one of my favorites, although i don't have much to add at this point as you fellows have covered a lot of ground.

but... too driven by sexuality? i don't get that.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 24 January 2005 11:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I must confess I didn't get very far in if on a winter's night etc. I found the second-person stuff offputting.

Invisible Cities, though, is magnificent.

The Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Doesn't it equate reading with sexual activity, desire, or something? (I don't have it to hand. I'm probably glad.) It includes a quest for a book (?) in which the male and the female fall into bed with bad, nay, Pynchonesque inevitability. I don't really like that kind of thing. (I think JtN agreed with me, on this, once, that is, 5 years ago. I think he and I agree, about Calvino, in general.)

the bellefox, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link

the male and the female fall into bed with bad, nay, Pynchonesque inevitability.

No... There are a few fantasies of sex, and there is some sex within the story snippets scattered through the book (although there certainly isn't sex in all of them), but the Reader's pursuit of the Other Reader is routinely frustrated until the very end, when they're finally in bed together...reading. The book isn't about sex at all. It's about books.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 4 February 2005 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Your factual correction is welcome - but if it's not about sex but about books, then why is it so plainly sexualized, with a male and a female reader between whom sexual dynamics exist, and who end up in bed together? If I wanted to write a book 'about books', such erotic entanglements would not be an obvious way of going about it. I maintain that the book over-eroticizes reading, mixes its notion of fiction too closely and insistently with a notion of desire, and that this is one of the obnoxious things about it.

the pomefox, Saturday, 5 February 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The only part that I remember that was particularly "sexy" was the pastiche of the Japanese novel.

Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 5 February 2005 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think you can over-eroticise the act of reading. It is an act of pursual, of desire. Perhaps one can argue that the personification of it as a male-female sexual relationship is a little easy, but I don't think that it can be denied. If one takes the stance that you are reading purely on an intellectual level, rather than a passionate one, you are still attempting some form of conquest over the text - perhaps, pinefox, you are an abusive lover of your books, rather than a tender one?

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 20:17 (nineteen years ago) link

But anyway, I think the difference between your reading of it and mine is that you think it is saying that books=sex, whereas I think it is saying that sex=books.

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Your last sentence is an elegantly subtle summary.

Your previous mail is intriguing but truly ends in chuckles. Anyone who has seen how I treat my books will not think me their abuser.

(PS: Is cooking erotic because it = the pursuit of a finished meal? Is walking erotic cos it involves getting from A to B (= a desire)? I think what all these acts share is a certain teleology, a purposiveness; would that they were as erotic as all that.)

the firefox, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

David Lodge's Small World to thread!

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, cooking is often used as a metaphor for sex in art (I'm thinking particularly of film, but I've seen it in some literature), although perhaps for slightly different reasons. Walking... not so much... possibly because it is seen as more utilitarian, practical? Other forms of transport, however, are - the racing car, the rocket into space, the train speeding through a tunnel!

(And, yes, my initial post's ending was intended to be at least slightly amusing, if not actually funny.)

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Cooking=sex because it is art of blending, where different things are combined in various ways to make things that are greater than the pieces. It is adding A to B in method C to produce X which is not A nor B at all, but even more amazing.

Food also takes long to prepare but is quick to devour.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, this

If I wanted to write a book 'about books', such erotic entanglements would not be an obvious way of going about it.

seems like a comment quite far, far from the money, off in its own little impoverished land, dragging its fingers through the dry earth.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Get off my land!

the bluefox, Thursday, 10 February 2005 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link

four years pass...

dude is right, that book was slammin'

Ethel Slaughter Zachary (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 1 December 2009 01:41 (fourteen years ago) link

four years pass...

http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/021_02/13283

The sensational quality (and here I mean the sensations one feels when encountering a book by an author who killed herself upon its completion) of its content in relation to its seeming parallels with Qiu Miaojin’s life is an inextricable part of the reading. The book is an entirely postmodern act.

'Postmodern' clearly not doing much these days...doubt it could've been this calculated. But who knows with suicide..

xyzzzz__, Monday, 28 July 2014 10:47 (nine years ago) link

Marcovaldo is easily my favorite of his books. Harry Mathews has an essay about Calvino's funeral in which a whole class of schoolkids come, saddened over the loss of Marcovaldo's creator.

I'd like to read this essay?

Marcovaldo is in my top 3 Calvino for sure. If... Traveller never was, but it was a long time ago that I read it, I was much younger; in fact it seems like a really good idea to read it again ASAP.

Someone upthread otm about how Calvino, of the ludic authors, never wants to mistake the ball for the game. That's why I love him the most.

before you die you see the rink (Jon Lewis), Monday, 28 July 2014 14:08 (nine years ago) link

When you understand what the pinefox was saying, that is an early warning sign.
― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 22 January 2005 09:06 (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 28 July 2014 20:23 (nine years ago) link

I´m looking forward to read his letters book (now available in Penguin pocket as well). Both Vintage and Penguin have his work in print, but the contents and the titles of the books vary sometimes - very irritating sometimes. ´Six Memos for the Next Millenium´ is a great read for how he explains his working methods for constructing his stories.

EvR, Wednesday, 6 August 2014 19:10 (nine years ago) link

Six Memos totally rules

before you die you see the rink (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 6 August 2014 20:20 (nine years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.