Superhero comics: What insane story/character developments do avid followers take for granted but would blow the minds of anyone only peripherally aware of them?

Here are some things for me:
Plastic Man, Superman, and Shazam inhabit the same continuity
Green Lantern isn't afraid of yellow anymore
Lex Luthor was President
In addition to being a mutant, Kitty Pryde is also a witch, and fights Count Dracula!

Haha we are talking about ppl already predisposed to comics, right? Because I am imagining my wife's reaction to the Green Lantern one and "mind blown" is nowhere near the reaction.

Batman has a son? And he's dead?

There's a weird disconnect between superhero comics and the potential audience for them -- so many more people buy the live action movies, cartoons, t-shirts, videogames than have probably ever even picked up a comic, so yeah those people. I guess we're the equivalent of Christians who don't read the Bible, but buy the bumper stickers and veggie tales DVDs.

"Batman has a son? And he's dead?"

If you tell me Batman's son is actually Billy BatSon, my brain will explode a second time.

to clarify: Batman's dead. And he has a son.

to clarify: Batman's dead. And he has a son.

Really? Why they kill off all good old superheros?

to clarify

haha yeah i did look at that and go: but i thought damian was alive!

if that's his name. i can't remember.

so who's batman these days?

nightwing

Batman seems dead more regular than he's alive.
The whole Spidey clone thing put me off the book forever.

how did they end up unwriting that spidey clone thing?

oh yeah, cyclops' dad is a space captain!

everyone who was ever Robin now has their own comic, I think.

maybe not Carrie Kelly. Or maybe she's Magog?

1) Reggie, Jughead are now the same guy
2) Bob Hope comic still published after 54 years
3) Batman clashes with internet pirates in almost every issue
4) frequent depictions of cunnilingus in mainstream Marvel titles
5) fully articulated action figures now six feet tall
6) Spider-Man shoots man in Reno (you know why)
7) "Maus" now a monthly title, part of DC continuity
8) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles slowly dying of cancer
9) Animal Man no longer "all that"
10) ILX-Men

cute.
cyclops dad was ALWAYS a space captain.

A baby space captain?

Didn't Wolverine used to be short?

I would like to point out that a few months ago I was called on to explain the premise of (Morrison's) "Batman and Robin" TO CHRIS CLAREMONT--onstage--and, while I don't know if it exactly blew his mind, it did elicit a fairly intense WTF expression from him.

Dr. Superman, I don't _think_ Jason Todd has his own comic. But he may be the only exception. I mean, Stephanie's got one!

lol Douglas, u shoulda been like 'dude it's your own fault'

heh wow, that sounds hilarious

I think Spider-Man no longer being married to Mary Jane qualifies as a "mind-blower" for casual comic book christians.

they weren't married for something like the first fifteen years of the comic

- harry osborn is alive and now leading the avengers

no, i think it's still a mindblower for the fact that he MADE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL to save his aunt's life, and hence sacirficed his years of marriage and future child for it

In addition to being a mutant, Kitty Pryde is also a witch, and fights Count Dracula!

Don't forget she's a ninja too, as she was kidnapped and trained by an immortal evil ninja master (In Kitty Pryde & Wolverine). I'm not sure if anyone's referred to that story since the 80s, but theoretically she should still have her ninja skills, right?

they mention it sometimes - well, at least the ninja skills part, if not the origin. i'm pretty sure it was referenced in that Wolverine: Enemy of the State story

I don't _think_ Jason Todd has his own comic
Oh, I was under the completely ignorant impression that he was the Batman in the Judd ApatowWinick series.

I thought Jason was Red Robin...?

Never mind, I keep forgetting about that Drake kid. I'm not very well versed in the DCU.

Jason was "originally" the Red Robin.

all that spidey stuff kinda does blow my mind but in a why the fuck are you doing this continuity bullshit way
like, just tell stories why don't you

when I was 10, I made the mistake of trying to explain parallel earths and the Crisis to my Scouts group.

I can't be the only one on this board to know the shame of being shunned by the fucking Boy Scouts...

Whereas they, now all grown up, would be only too happy to show you Barack Obama's Kenyan birth certificate.

Comic books have gotten really odd. There is some Moore's Law kind of thing going on where more and more replacements.

OK

Captain America - replaced by Bucky, Steve Rogers currently lost in time with current comic called CAPTAIN AMERICA REBORN.
Batman - replaced by Nightwing (aka Robin), Bruce Wayne currently lost in time with current storyline mastheads saying BATMAN REBORN.
Robin III - is now Red Robin (who was dead Robin II)
Robin IV - is Batman's son
Hulk I aka Bruce Banner is not the Hulk
The Hulk is someone new but not yet known, but now the Hulk is red and people call him the Rulk
Hulk has a son who has shown up on Earth
There are two She-Hulks, but you can tell them apart as one has red hair
There are 4 Earth Green Lanterns, but there are now Orange, Red, Blue, Yellow and Indigo (?) Lantern Corps
There are again 3 Flashes, 1 Kid Flash
Wolverine has a son, so there are two Wolverines

A son?! I thought he had a daughter. I guess that's one less thing we have in common.

I thought Wolverine's son was called Daken or something like that, not Wolverine.

There was also Wolverine special (drawn by Mike Mignola) back in the 90s, where he travels to some time-forgotten valley or something, and battles Apocalypse, and has a kid with one of the cavewomen in the valley. I wonder if that kid has been seen ever since, or has the whole story been erased from continuity?

Seriously? The Rulk?

if you think that's bad, you should've seen the Wendigo-afflicted Hulk, AKA WENDIHULK

Jeph Loeb is to "thank" for this "entertainment"

I'm waiting for Loeb to introduce The Rulk's arch-nemesis: The Reader.

They got Daken dressing up in the brown uniform now in Dark Avengers and is the star of "Dark Wolverine" which is the old Wolverine book without Wolverine. I haven't read that series, but I suppose the public is supposed to think he is Wolverine.

It's all just odd, it's like Bizarro comics land. No one is who they should be, those who should be are dead.

Superman, (aka the Last Son of Krypton) left the Earth and is living with a bunch of Kryptonians on another planet. He isn't even in the comics Superman or Action anymore, which he pretty much has starred in since the late 30s.

Hawkeye (who was also Goliath II-- not the black one that got killed) is now Ronin (who was another character at one point)
Bullseye is now Hawkeye
Spider-man's black alien suit who was Venom got a new host in the Scorpion, who everyone thinks is Spider-man

Henry Pym (aka Giant Man/Ant-Man/Yellow Jacket) is now the Wasp, as his wife who was the Wasp is dead.

Oh yeah, there is this other character called Hulkling, who looks like the Hulk with a blonde surfer hair cut, but get this...he's actually a 1/2 Skrull bastard of Captain Marvel (the Marvel Captain Marvel not Shazam! Captain Marvel, who is now not Captain Marvel as he is Shazam! the Wizard and Captain Marvel Jr. is now Captain Marvel (the DC Shazam! one, not the one that got cancer). Whew...

There are also now like 5 teams of Avengers, if you count all of the off-shoots and none of them are on the west coast.

I may have mentioned this before, but West Coast Avengers from the $0.25 bin was pretty much my favorite thing as a kid. i got almost the entire series that way, missing less than a dozen issues.

that's how I got into Cerebus! And Alan Moore/Rick Veitch Swamp Thing. And Area 88. And a bunch of others. There's a thread there I think.

I'm waiting for Loeb to introduce The Rulk's arch-nemesis: The Reader.

lols

Oh yeah, there is this other character called Hulkling, who looks like the Hulk with a blonde surfer hair cut, but get this...he's actually a 1/2 Skrull bastard of Captain Marvel (the Marvel Captain Marvel not Shazam! Captain Marvel, who is now not Captain Marvel as he is Shazam! the Wizard and Captain Marvel Jr. is now Captain Marvel (the DC Shazam! one, not the one that got cancer). Whew...

ouchies

Hold on, if Superman isn't in his own comic book, then who is?

Mon-Orail.

Action features Nightwing (not the Dick Grayson character) and Flamebird, two Kryptonians who are hunting down other Kryptonian sleeper agents who are on Earth plotting some big takeover. Superman features Mon-El (who is Superman-ing in Superman's absence) primarily, but also the Guardian and Steel and the new Zatarra, et al as they protect Metropolis. The Superman: World of New Krypton maxiseries is currently the only title in which Supes is the star. It's not hugely amazing or anything, but I'm enjoying the Supes titles these days. They've gone back to the cross-continuity 'triangle issues' days (along with the Supergirl book), so it's a fun near-weekly story.

And isn't the Nightwing in Action the adult son of Superman?

The informally-adopted, rapidly-aging adult son of Superman. General Zod is his real pops, but that's Bad News.

Maybe I'm just Allred apologising too much but I thought the issue now they're back on Earth was really great, like a Scooby Doo ep or something.

I'll have to check it out. Stopped reading after issue #2.

IIRC the next issue of Moon Knight is the last Ellis issue? They've all been great though.

nope, issue 6 has a page basically saying "Don't stop reading now!!!" and then a three page preview of issue 7 from the new team.

Ellis's Marvel work over the years has been so uneven

Best Marvel Runs

Daredevil by Bendis/Maleev/Brubaker -- This is a pretty great modern sequel to the Frank Miller run on Daredevil.
Cable & Deadpool- Fabian Nicieza & bunch of artists -- I thought this comic was a whole lot of fun. It's really one of the few things I have read that had that old style Marvel storytelling. There is also a really well setup long arc to the series. Tie ins to the bigger universe work, as they are self contained. I liked it quite a bit.
Captain America- Brubaker & Company- It waffles a bit as a run, probably because of having to tie into everything in the Bucky Cap chapters, but overall it's probably the best run of Cap comics ever, definitely one of the more popular takes in modern times.
Prelude to Planet Hulk/Planet Hulk/World War Hulk -- I thought the parts of the battle planet was just amazing. They should have just left him out there for another couple of years, as there seemed to be so many stories they could have told and that direction was popular.
The Punisher by Garth Ennis - Ennis' run on The Punisher is like Brubaker's Captain America, it's the most advanced take on the character. The MAX series covers a whole lot of ground but also has some odd turns like a last Punisher story and single issues with really great guest veteran artists. The earlier run of the Punisher is in the regular universe and it's pretty funny. There is an arc with Darick Robertson artwork that has Spider-man, Daredevil and Wolverine as guest stars that is a favorite of mine. Maybe not for everyone, as the Punisher Max series is really violent, but it's one of my favorites.

Grant Morrison's X-Men run is an interesting read too. I don't think it all quite fits, but there some total cool comics in there worth reading. His stuff always is good to re-read.
Fantastic Four- Hickman & Co. -- It's a pretty solid long novel story. I think when they compile it, they really should put the FF stuff next to the regular title, as the story flows that way. It's a definite sequel to both the Kirby/Lee & Byrne runs.

I should say modern runs...last decade or so.

Oh yeah, the Hickman stuff! Also check out his Secret Warriors, that is a pretty solidly plotted out long story as well. And also Gillen's Journey Into Mystery with Kid Loki. I kinda miss Kid Loki...

I liked Hickman's S.H.I.E.L.D. series too. But the best stuff he's done at Marvel is Fantastic Four/FF, which Fraction then immediately fucked up and abandoned.

Warren Ellis' Thunderbolts with Bendis' sequel in Dark Avengers is pretty dark fun reading too. It's kind of tied to the Marvel U macro story line though, so if read on their own, some of the context might be lost. Don't know if they do the review sheets in the Marvel trades, but the ones on the issue are pretty good for catching up what you might have missed in a 'crossover' story.

Some great recommendations here. Thanks guys. Gonna look to see what I can find in omnibus format on amazon.

If you're going the omnibus route, Annihilation is highly recommended. It's the storyline that kicked off the modern era of Marvel Cosmic and reintroduced the members of the new Guardians of the Galaxy. And it's currently only in print as an omnibus (which is why I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wasn't willing to shell out $$$). Presumably, they will be following that up with an omnibus of (the likewise out of print) Annihilation Conquest, which formally introduced the new GotG team. Why this stuff isn't currently widely available in affordable paperbacks in every Barnes and Noble...well, just ask those lovely people in the Marvel reprint department about their keen foresight and awe-inspiring strategic planning skills.

even the trades they do put out are double the price of an image trade, bcz something something marvel? idgi

Yeah, their trade prices are often ridiculously steep. I don't see other paperback books selling for $35-40 dollars. I guess the argument with TPBs in that price range (e.g. the Ultimate trades, which usually collect around 12 to 16 issues) is that they're roughly equivalent to the price point of the individual issues? Except that those are ridiculously overpriced, as well. All the more reason why it's such a shame that they've done away with the Essential line.

i know i say this in every thread but if you have a tablet get a marvel unlimited subscription.
seventy bucks gets you access to about 80% of everything listed above

There's another symptom of the price hikes, too, I'd wager. Marvel Unlimited as a loss leader for physical reprints.

As much as I like having access to stuff digitally and the convenience thereof, I'm apparently afflicted with the inability to ever fully give up on floppies and trades. I way prefer reading stuff that way.

As much as I hate parting with $35 freaking dollars for a trade paperback, I like supporting my local comics shop. If I was just buying stuff from Amazon or whatever anyway, the subscription thing would of course be a great deal.

As much as I love physical copies, I have nine or ten bookshelves filled with floppies, trades and hardcovers and i'm trying desperately to transfer to digital wherever possible.

Oh yeah, I understand that problem too. Fortunately, I'm not quite there with comics, but I've had to sell or give away most of my physical book collection simply for space limitation issues.

weirdly, i've given away most of what i own multiple times due to space limitations / moving and I've lost half of my collection multiple times but every goddamn time i get a little cash i seem to blow it on a comic library and that shit's gotta stop at some point

^ This. Except I've finally conceded that it's never gonna stop, so I've just given in. The realities of physical space be damned.

(I figure the continued employment of actual bookshelves will stave off hoarderhood.)

yeah, but that means every three to five months i have to have the awkward conversation with my girl about how "we totally have room here for another bookshelf, right? and then we can get these books off the table and you want that right? and you're not saying i should get rid of anything right?"

Ha. We live parallel lives, forks. There is, thankfully, a storage room in our building, but that's only going to keep the dam from bursting for so long.

sooner or later my gal is gonna figure out that my ongoing efforts to get her into comics are just a smokescreen for plausible deniability when the entire apartment becomes a constant wall packed with comic storage and ebay will not be kind to me.
thank GOD i got the action figure / collectible bug out of my system in my thirties

Yeah, thankfully, I've largely purged my CD & DVD collections because I don't have the physical or mental space for more than one obsessive pursuit anymore.

going non-physical with music was one of the more important decisions in my twenties; has save me SO MUCH heartbreak

and i imagine as much money as opting not to have a child!

is batman digitizing damian to save on batcave storage more morrison or ellis?

ellis, certainly

seconded on Marvel Unlimited. despite their godawful design problems, I've been having a good time reading the last couple weeks

I was trying to think of something to steer this thread back on topic and realized that, despite the wealth of Kitty Pryde revelations here, no one ever pointed out that Widget was revealed to be KP's future consciousness inside a robotic body.

wow, that is a surprise. wonder how that would impact a reread of the early excalibur books. i mean, not enough to actually read them, but

xp
If that fails the very fact that this happened should work,
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/142926/3543170-snowflame.jpg
but then I can't be sure how many avid followers are actually aware that someone at DC in the 80's thought this was a good idea
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Snowflame_(New_Earth)

"I am Steve Englehart Snowflame! Every cell of my being burns with white hot ecstasy."

helluvadrug

'Powers: Cocaine Touch: Touching Snowflame was sufficient to give The Floronic Man a contact high.'

and then somebody rolled up the floronic man and smoked him, circle of dope

Powers: Unique Physiology: The more cocaine he used, the more powerful Snowflame became.
Weaknesses: Drug Addiction: Cocaine

i am dying here

that took me all the way to the ongoing fan webcomic about this guy and dear lord

oh woooooowwww, that's great

http://www.snowflamecomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012-08-30-8931b9ce.jpg

http://www.snowflamecomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/814311492_1352973.gif

hahaha

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Murderers-of-Marvel-Infographic.jpg
wait, cap killed truman?

and how is Truman neutral?

immediate nitpicks: X-23 has surely killed WAY more than than that, even counting on-panel only. you'd think her own mother would be a "notable kill"

good thing they didn't include Bishop who straight up committed multiple genocides into the billions during his crazy time-traveling spree to kill Hope Summers

lol at Iron Man's having killed 5 heroes and 1 villain

I guess they're only counting deaths that weren't reversed by the end of the story arc? Otherwise Thanos should be on the top of the list.

Though they do list The Torch killing Mr. Immortal, even though the guy's literal superpower is that he always comes back to life after getting killed.

man things got really murder-y from the 90s on, I don't recognize the names of at least 2/3rds of the characters involved on that chart

Stpuid superhero deaths