suggest ban sucks (unban LJ)

damn is this why he got perma banned?

unban for real

yes

yes

yes on unban

http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/expression/expression_27.gif

can we make suggest ban like a 90 minute thing or something, cause i think its pretty serious lols when people get autobanned, but then i miss them pretty quickly

^^

I wouldn't necessarily disagree on suggested bans being temp
but I think it should be like I said on some other thread where each additional suggest ban is longer and longer (I think temp bans do this now)

who has this ever stopped from posting

deeznuts

^

what specifically do people miss about LJ

he's nice

excuse me while i choke

anyone who suggest banned LJ and is now upset that he is banned should probably take a moment of introspection before posting about how it sucks

wha louis got banned ????? this is just wrong

it's not like the little freak won't be back under a new username in record time

how many ppl knew that suggest ban = auto ban?

51, apparently

i don't think we'd be having this discussion if either of the next two people with the highest SB counts got autobanned

geir and who??

RONG and not telling

people would totally complain if geir got banned!!

but i think that you could probably make a better guess if you gave yourself a while to think about it. xpost

NOTE: not going to confirm or deny any further guesses

itd be pretty fun if this list was public right

also who the voters are

Do mods know who a user has suggest banned?

can you tell when you've been suggested for ban?

nope, and nope. although i did yellowcard louis warning him when he was at 30, so im not sure it would make much of a difference.

whats the time period needed to accumulate 50 suggest bans?

that would appear to depend on your posting rate and the signal to nuisance ratio

it is kind of funny that this result seems to be pretty much exactly what somebody had in mind

moderation request: democratic bans

no u know what i mean - a ban is only handed out if someone gets 50 suggestions in like a month or however long right - so how long is it

ha xp

do suggest bans dissipate after a while, like if you got 49 on one day and then went months without getting one, would the next one still obtain automatic one

oh is this the same question?

TOMBOT MADE THE TRAINS RUN ON TIME

I really don't know what the answer is here, I mean I was initially against the suggest ban thing, but the kind of mean-spirited ganging-up that I was convinced would happen is actually not going on at all

I do also agree that there should be an age-out process for the suggest ban tally, like each vote should only last 60 days or so. of course at the end of that 60 days that user could vote again, so if there's a bunch of people you really annoy daily, you won't get much help

towards a more perfect union

q: do i have any suggest bans

i was under the impression they do timeout - pretty sure some mod or other mentioned that - if they dont well all be banned eventually

a fitting end to ilx

anyone who posts on ILX regularly probably has a couple of suggest bans. which means that most of you will fall victim to this terrible travesty in about 25 years, so get your affairs in order.

hint: do not post backwards unicodez

maybe bans aren't really perma ;)

Suggest ban is good, but votes should age out, and Tom's idea about the number needed for ban decreasing by half each time or whatevs is good. I don't think that bans should be perm, but in addition to making the number needed decrease each time, why not lengthen the ban period by a factor of 2 each ban?

yeah all that stuff

theres also just registering a new account right

no that only works for gershy

I haven't heard this enunciated, but I'll bet that ILX policy is that bans apply to people, not login names.

never get rid of suggest ban, we're finally getting to the event horizon where all the tards are dropping like flies

sb'd you for use of "tards"

look I'm not trying to be a dick or tuomas jr or whatever

I'm just trying to find a way for the people besides the 51 random folks who hit the suggban button to get heard, and also give a chance for the people who hit suggban and who regret it now to undo their vote

if those 51 people still feel that tuomas should be banned, then it should be enough to keep the ban enforced, given the number of people who vote in the average ILX poll

what, precisely, do you think has been happening in this thread

I think I have a solution

1) if you s-ban somebody, the act of your having done so is recorded on a thread in a locked forum
2) the poster who was s-banned and the s-banner are both automatically admitted to the forum by virtue of the s-ban exchange
3) everyone who ever posts to the locked forum is shot and buried in a shallow grave east of Hemet

^sb'd for suggesting that ilxors should be murdered

are mods defending s-ban because they believe in it, or because its hard-wired into the code and keith doesnt hang out here often enough to ask him to remove it

what happens if we suggest ban the mods

look I'm not trolling or modbaiting or trying to kick up shit for no reason

I wouldn't start a poll unless the mods agreed beforehand to honor the results - I'm trying in good faith to work with you guys here

What I think has been happening is that a lot of people have been saying "oh, Tuomas got banned? Maybe I shouldn't have sbed him, regardless of how insanely irritating he was" mixed in with a lot of "Tuomas never should have been banned, wtf???" surrounded by joeks and a few "no seriously, he was a total troll and had it coming" posts.

I don't see how starting another thread about this will drastically change or affect the conversation that happened here (past tense used because really only about 4 people are carrying it on at this point and only two of them seem to be in any way seriously invested in it)

I am defending sban because I believe in it. It hasn't turned into a tool for terrorizing people and everyone who has been struck by it to date has a history of trolling (intentionally or otherwise).

Sadly(?), mods can't be suggest banned.

^sb'd for suggesting that ilxors should be murdered

in yr heart you know I'm right

All of the moderators know that you and others would like for Tuomas to be unbanned, Edward. It is not necessary to run a poll to prove this point. The question as to whether Tuomas will be unbanned remains unanswered but, from my viewpoint, I find it highly unlikely that he will remain banned permanently; even though he trolled A LOT, he was ultimately harmless about it a la Geir; his crime is not so much in committing the sin as much as it is in not figuring out how to accurately read his audience.

you know the thing is that ppl just need to listen to Dan because he is a rational kinda guy

(in case anybody thinks I'm being sarcastic or something: that is not my style)

So, in summation, you can make the poll if you want to, but it won't tell us anything we haven't already heard and no, we're not yet prepared to open up every suggest banning to a board review of concerned citizens. We may decide to go this route in the future but it's not the way we're doing things now.

or mods need to be more forthcoming that the bans aren't permanent :P xposts

Dan is way OTM.

SB'ing looks like a clusterfuck because the posters who accumulate mass SB totals tend to generate a lot of zings for their general WTFness. I haven't seen any examples of hugely uncontroversial posters accumulating loads of SBs out of pure spite. 51 SB votes is still way, way more than any ILX clique cd muster on its own.

And there is, to all intents and purposes, life after SB and by choosing to ignore that route it kinda suggests Tuomas has no desire to consider the reasons why he got 51'd in the first place.

I should say that the fact that I've never suffered a temp-ban or a 51 ban indicated that SB, generally, works

The bans are permanent until the mods decide to revoke them. As is the case with all permanent bans, much like temporary bans expire after a certain date unless a moderator chooses to revoke it early.

is there any reason a sban can't be implemented as temporary, though? wouldn't this really remove 95% of objections while still keeping 95% of the intent of introducing it in the first place?

And there is, to all intents and purposes, life after SB and by choosing to ignore that route it kinda suggests Tuomas has no desire to consider the reasons why he got 51'd in the first place.

i would just like to point out that noodle vague has been otm on this thread.

the last i checked no one was rallying around the flag for deeznuts. xpost

xxpost Darragh I agree in principle but SBs leading to a temp-ban won't do anything to encourage people to be thoughtful in their use, quite the opposite I'd've thought.

51 becomes more easily to attain over time t/f?

which i guess i could say in a less obtuse fashion by saying that really what a lot of people have a problem with isnt the sb system, it is one specific poster that got SB'd. things would be easier if people just said "i dont think tuomas should be banned" instead of acting like there is some shocking system failure to address.

i mean, im way more stunned by the gabbneb sb but all people seem to be mustering up is the occasional i miss that one guy that said that funny thing about blended haircuts.

xposts

well, I'm trying to address the failure here, pretty unsuccessfully.

the point I made way upthread is that suggban is going to take out the clearly offensive folks, then the choices will become more controversial - it's built into the design. no expiration of suggbans, everybody who has a strong opinion/personality is going to accumulate them over time. as for why tuomas is the rallying point, well gabbneb seemed to have some more overtly offensive habits so he was a little harder to defend, and tuomas was just an occasionally annoying dude. there will be more cases to discuss soon enough I'm sure. we can wait for a few more to drop off like flies but I'm not sure why we need to if the writing's on the wall? it's up to the mods to decide but ppl are frustrated with the system, and they're mostly being told to stfu, or acting too cool to care.

hell, if I get sb'd I doubt anyone will miss my lame carcass, but I don't like the chilling effect of the sb. I never had a serious problem with gabbneb, or tuomas, or even burt_stanton. at some points recently, burt was the only entertaining thing happening on the board. when the system starts banning entertaining folks then I have to ask what's the point? and if he comes back less burt_stanton-ish than before, then I start feeling like b.f. skinner is running the board and frankly I never liked that dude.

i hope you dont mind the "chilling effect of the sb" i just gave you

this is like that part in bad santa where everybody falls over after punching each other in the nuts

naw, it's cool. I'm not hatin' the playa I'm hatin' the game.

"chilling effect of the sb" vs "excelsior syndrome"

EIII, i am honestly confused by how you fail to see that your personal preferences about who is just annoying and who is entertaining dont outweigh 51 people that feel otherwise.

honestly the only thing that is really shitty about SB is that it's easily spoofed---if someone wanted another poster gone they could stuff the ballot with sockpuppet votes. i'm sure both gabbs and tuomas collected more than a few votes from socks

because I don't think that 51 people feel otherwise. I think tuomas got a lot of lol sb's, and sb's from people who decided after the fact that they made a mistake.

I'm willing to make a poll to test that theory but I'm not going to if it's just going to result in more discussion. again, that's up to you and I accept dan's answer that it's being taken under consideration.

and I'm not recommending a poll just for tuomas (he would be good one for starters) but for anybody who was sb'd.

I don't see the inconsistency in that logic. I'm not just repping for dudes who don't annoy me, I'm trying to find a way to make the system a little fairer given the constraint of not being able to modify the codebase.

xp to jj

It would be a lot easier to argue in favor of the existence/threat of ballot-stuffing sockpuppetry if:

a) every registration wasn't approved by a moderator;
b) the people who have received bans from this system weren't known for trolling threads in various and sundry ways;
c) mods couldn't unban people who were actually ganged up upon.

I'm trying to find a way to make the system a little fairer given the constraint of not being able to modify the codebase.

you keep saying things like this, but what i dont understand is how the current system isnt "fair". if anything, overturning a SB using a second poll is unfair to anyone who has already exercised their right to vote on the issue at hand.

because I don't think that 51 people feel otherwise. I think tuomas got a lot of lol sb's, and sb's from people who decided after the fact that they made a mistake.

i know you think this is the case but srsly you might want to step outside of your opinion of how cuddlelovable tuomas seems to you and logically look at whether there is any reason to make this assumption.

my assumption's based on ppl on this thread who have flat out said so

also I never said tuomas wasn't annoying, just that he wasn't offensive/harmful, not sure where the cuddlelovable stuff is coming from

RIP Edward III, heaven needed another Tuomas

it kinda suggests Tuomas has no desire to consider the reasons why he got 51'd in the first place.

Since he came back to specifically post that he doesn’t want to fight and thinks that an enforced break from [posting on] ILX will provide valuable time for reflection, this suggestion is very very “kinda”. I totally <3 Tuomas and hope he gets to come back, but jesus fuck if a couple months off will encourage him to LET IT GO when restating his position over and over and over on meta-admin threads then let’s throw a parade for the inventors of the suggest ban system.

Dan - a lot of your justifications revolve around subjective opinion. Which is fine, and I totally agree with, but it just speaks to how pointless and disruptive sb's are. Because the final call lies with the mods, as it did before sb's existed.

anyway, I'm done.

I don't really like posting on meta-threads, but I did always feel that Tuomas was often accused of blindly restating stuff for no reason when in fact he was almost obliged to restate his position, because he kept getting the same shit thrown at him from people misunderstanding points he'd already made/just saying 'no, you're wrong, stfu' without extending the argument or actually proving their own point. A lot of the time threads like these just come down to getting the last word in, and I see little reason why he wasn't allowed to have that privilege when others were doing the exact same thing. I can understand more the annoyance at his 'what is this thing you call "bread"?' schtick, but even then sometimes the questions were perfectly valid.

On the other hand, I do think Edward III is overdoing it with the poll thing, by misreading Dan's 'it is a bad idea' into 'we will take it into consideration'.

As to the main point: yeah, the suggest ban system sucks, and really needs to be changed.

i really wonder if you people realize that SB-ing somebody does not actually kill them/destroy their computer. they can come back under a different name, and maybe (hopefully) with a newfound "maybe i should stfu every once in a while" attitude.

we're not yet prepared to open up every suggest banning to a board review of concerned citizens. We may decide to go this route in the future but it's not the way we're doing things now.

^ did I misread dan? ^

if so I'm more obtuse than previously suspected

my assumption's based on ppl on this thread who have flat out said so

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:39 PM (Yesterday)

i just ctrl+F'd "tuo" on this entire thread and there are exactly 3 people who have said anything remotely like this, one of whom was clearly kidding.

just to make sure this point remains clear.

tou each his own

it wasn't for no reason, it was just for no gain. he wasn't changing anyone's mind, none of the answers were changing what he thought, he would have been a lot better off just walking away and having some photos taken of himself in his derps, or posting 1993 trance youtubes

Sadly(?), mods can't be suggest banned.

Suggest Ban Permalink
― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Wednesday, March 4, 2009 2:12 PM Bookmark

HI DERE I SB'd you for this

Tuomas was a mod (?)

they're talking sitewide mods

^sbanned in the usa

we're not discussing this on enough threads already, maybe this one will help

every time you post, i become more galvanized in my support of suggest bans just to spite you.