defend the indefensible: DODGY

defending the indefensible 4: ocean colour scene

A bunch of nice guys, concentrating on music rather than image, and devoid of the arrogant image that would have made NME love them. Thus, NME chose to hate them instead.

Q, who have never cared that much about image and "the next big thing", and usually listened to the actual music instead, tended to give them quite good reviews. And the interesting thing is that even NME wouldn't come out too bad once they actually listened to the music....

If you listen to their music you can tell roughly what their songwriting went like:

1. Johnny Marr sitting on his own, composing a guitar riff and some chord sequences
2. Morrissey sitting on his own, writing a "deep" and often quite meaningful lyric
3. They meet, Johnny starts playing and, without ever having heard Marr's guitar theme before, Morrissey starts improvising a tune.

Subsequently, the song has no direction, no climax, just a bunch of mantras repeated over and over (sure, they may not have the kind lyrical mantras that there was recently an ILM thread dedicated to, but melodical mantras are very much present).

On "Strangeways Here We Come" they seemed to escape this songwriting process somewhat, coming up with tunes that worked better, that had a more obvious chorus, contrasting sections, and not just endless repetition. I thus find that one their best album. But they still never wrote a song (and remember, I am speaking of the melody not the lyrics) as good as "Olympian" nor "Sleep Well Tonight", both of which are absolutely brilliant examples of songwriting at its best.

I don't think songs have to have a strong structure all the time tho.

Gene were not the smiths. Their songs are obviously different. If you have structure / tune as their main criterion, gene win. But for being 'first'/original/changing 'music' then the Smiths do.

Dodgy = the hollies oh yes.

(I'm not 'punning' the prev post, just wondering...)

Most of their songs are considerably better though, and those of us who were heavily into Dodgy way before "Good Enough" would never see that stupid song as particularly representative of them (I remember loving "Good Enough" on my first 2-3 listens of "Free Peace Sweet", then I got sick of it and got other favourites)

Being discouragingly shit was a bit of a handicap too.

Gene made a lot better melodies than The Smiths ever did.

Someone please feed me to the lions.

They were very boring, Dodgy.

Ditto 'Glasto'

Dodgy were awful. Music for people who found Ned's Atomic Dustbin to be too outre.

Arghableag.

Arghebleag is the new harglehack.

My favourite 'Hitchiker's Guide' character.

Circle Jerk Time Hooray!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dodgy. of "For the Dead" and "Olympian" fame. have a blast, mr. hongro.
-- Eisbär (llamasfu...) (webmail), February 4th, 2004. (link)

Violently hate 'staying out for the summer', though. And, er, everything else they ever did.

-- Rohan Chadwick (oppresswome...), July 31st, 2006 6:59 PM. (thelevellers)

I think ILM will all agree that 5ive is/was awesome.

Good Enough is just vomit-inducing now, I'll freely admit that.

feel the love, yo!

lol that was within 6 days of joining, way to set out yr stall jaggapaws ;_;

The irony of Geir's ire is that NME actually REALLY LIKED Dodgy - Free Peace Sweet got a 7 from Johnny Cigarettes, and the main push of the review was that, compared to most other artists it was a good record, but compared to the two previous Dodgy albums it was a pile of shit, because Dodgy at their best were better than the rest of the Britpop crowd. Which is pretty much true. The segues between tracks on Homegrown are ace. I should try Free Peace Sweet again but I can't imagine doing anything but hating it still.

Interludes, not segues.

You mean, Dodgy were good as long as nobody had heard of them?

Well, I still prefer "Free Peace Sweet" although "Homegrown" is an absolutely fantastic album that isn't far behind. And "Staying Out For The Summer" was their best single moment.

No, that's not what I said at all, Geir.

You prefer FPS because you've got mentalist gauges of what makes 'good music'.

All Dodgy albums fit into my definition of what makes good music anyway.

I haven't heard Homegrown but FPS has a few half-decent interludes, the ones out of If You're Thinking Of Me, You've Gotta Look Up and (the track) Homegrown especially. Plenty of the (superior) second-half tracks are foreshadowed by ghostly 'previews'; I find it to be quite an endearing conceit.

One Of Those Rivers was a family favourite, still is. Sorry, I may struggle but deep down I cannot deny this album's part in my musical upbringing. If I hadn't seen ILM it wouldn't have occurred to me that this album is "terrible, one of the worst of the decade" even now; I don't listen to it much at all, but I'd still look at it fondly as a good if not revolutionary 90's pop record. Good Enough aside; that shit stinks. Note also that Good Enough and Trust In Time are also fairly crapulent; the lead single and the first two proper tracks kinda sabotage what is ACTUALLY on offer here.

*In A Room and Trust In Time

Homegrown is currently only £4.98 with 4 copies in stock at amazon.co.uk - Louis, buy one.

There is nothing on FPS that's even remotely as good as So Let Me Go Far, Making The Most Of or Grassman. Grassman will make you wet yourself Louis.

Is it a big 7-minute psychedelic blowout? :D

In a room, yeah. (xpost dunno if *that*'s a big 7 min pb)

I guess I listen to "all hits" radio so little, that I don't mind the occasional "good enough", "staying out" etc, and maybe an album wouldn't be too painful.

I guess if they wanted to be held in high regard for many years after they packed it, they really shouldn't have called themselves Dodgy in the first place. Bit like "Cud" in that respect.

XP Well, the 7 minute description fits. Almost. :)

More a soul-pop-60s-psychedelic blowout, but yeah, seven minutes. Epic closer. Choir. Guitar wigout.

Sounds good! I really like Nick's sometime appreciation for music most dismiss as crappy Britpop (see also Embrace); it makes my own weaknesses far more communal!

I never liked OCS, dude.

Well, no kind of music is *all* crap.

(there, I said it!)

NICK WE WERE ALL 11 YRS OLD ONCE, and OCS didn't exist when you were 11 :P

When I was 11 I liked Marillion.

= I'm a fuckload more prog than you.

when i was 8 or 9 i liked king crimson's "21st century schizoid man", talk talk's "spirit of eden" (Y RLY), all of the cure's early-mid period stuff, xtc's "nonsuch", pink floyd's "ummagumma live", and bjork's "isobel"

SO THERE

WIWE IL um, Wizzard/beatles/radio pop.

You lot must have had older bros/parents that were 'into' music. Mine stopped at Sgt Pep.

This thread has convinced me - I'm going to rip Homegrown to this new-fangled iPod thing tonight, so I can listen to it for the first time in 12 years (or whatever). Seem to remember liking 'Making The Most Of'.

You lot must have had older bros/parents that were 'into' music. Mine stopped at Sgt Pep.

Older brothers for me; I nicked the Marillion tape out of JR's room, I think. Or maybe Jim's. I can't imagine it was Jim's though. He was into Mega City Four at the time. My parents have little to no interest in music, and my brothers moved out when I was about 10 or 11 or so, so their influence ended then, pretty much (1990).

This is how Putin's Russia started.

I thought the massed crowds of ILM would be excited by this news. (Shouldn't mock, it's for cheridee. So I'll let someone else do it instead.)

Friday 8th August
Carling Academy Oxford

The headline artist, recently reformed Dodgy, will be performing their hits which include, "Staying Out For The Summer", "Good Enough" and "If You're Thinking Of Me". Dodgy will be joined on the bill by local Brit Pop pioneers, The Candyskins who have reformed especially for this show. The Candyskins were last seen performing at the sell out "End Of An Era" show at the former Zodiac.

Set to open the show are local new talent A Silent Film, followed by TCT Music favourite Frank Turner, who will be playing a special solo acoustic set.

To ensure as higher donation as possible to Cancer Research, the promoters and their staff will be working on the event for free.

Bet no-one turns up for the first act, thinking it's just a silent film.

Bet no-one turns up for the second act, thinking it's a wretched Billy Bragg impersonator with a bag of plums in his mouth.

Jokes bruv, cancer is serious biz

"so Let Me Go Far" was actually a good song, "In A Room" weren't bad either. "Good Enough" was horrible and sounded like the Rugrats theme tune.

Disappointed by lack of follow-up "Bet no-one turns up for the headline act" zing

New album coming out this year apparently, named 'Stand Right Up In A Cool Place'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UXd790sRUOc

Bet no-one turns up for the second act, thinking it's a wretched Billy Bragg impersonator with a bag of plums in his mouth.

― DJ Mencap, Tuesday, 17 June 2008 16:49 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Is this an ILX first diss of Frank Turner? I'd never heard of him until last year but DJ Mencap had him nailed 4 years ago.

still awsum summersong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSUuRZR-9hA

^I repeat