The German language

We most certainly do not!

I do

The past participle of 'got' is 'got' in British English.

I've picked up some American syntax in the last couple of years because I work with Americans and Europeans all day long, but I'm pretty sure I've always said "gotten". Maybe it's a Northern thing?

slip

This is the French word too, which is I'd guess where the Germans borrowed it from. It had never crossed my mind that the French was an English loan-word, since we never use it like that (any more?), but I guess it isn't the most French-looking word.

Getting kind of bummed to be going from a supremely disorganised 10-week German course which was all over the place in terms of level to a year-long beginners' course. I had a quick look at the book used for Level 2 and thought my grasp of some grammatical basics was too weak for it, but now I'm worried that after a year I still won't be any further on.

i have nearly finished level 3 of pimsleur (i guess that's 45 hours of tapes), and picking up some stuff from reading adverts on the u-bahn, cereal boxes, etc., but i definitely need some lessons.

45 hours sounds a lot! Impressive.

ILX German speakers, how big a deal is the difference between "du" and "Sie"?

In my first course (taught by English guy who'd lived in Germany for years) we were all calling each other "du" and using it for a lot of example sentences, etc. In my new course (taught by native German speaker) she was explaining to us that calling someone "du" would be a very big close-buddies-forever sort of deal and that people could talk to each other for years and not use it, which makes me think that as a non-German I am basically never going to get to use it unless someone introduces me to their kids. Is this right? Is it regional or age-dependent?

I'm not the biggest expert on German, but I think that might bit of an exaggeration. I've never heard young people who know each other call each other "Sie". "Sie" is something you use when talking to an elderly person, or when a sales clerk talks to a customer. I.e. it's used when you want show respect for the other person, or when you don't know the other person. I guess it's possible for people to know each other for years and still use "Sie", but then they'd have to be business associates or something like that, i.e. their relationship is formal. If you know someone more informally, I don't think there's nothing wrong with "du", even if you're not bosom buddies or anything.

"You can say you to me" is the bad joke Germans tell in English on this subject.

It's dependent on a LOT of age, social, and regional factors, and is a bit of a trap for the unwary. What you have understood your teacher to say, however, is not true -- so either you misunderstood her or she's at least 50.

It is a question of formality more than familiarity, and you do get a feel for it -- at this point my main problem is recognizing when it would be appropriate for me to offer the "du", but I doubt that this has caused me problems.

Don't duz a German cop, though.

You call people Herr X or Frau Y for far longer in a business relationship than you would do in the UK, I think. E.g. friends of mine set me up with their bank manager to open an account and warned me to call her Frau Schneider, so I was expecting some terrifyingly formal woman, but she was just a regular person. They just use the title more.

Yes, new tutor is probably in her 50s, older than my previous tutor, and definitely a LOT more formal about everything - dresses smartly for classes, very precise and posh English accent, even more so than other Germans I've spoken to of similar age.

Also probably some exaggeration to scare us out of saying "du" to the boss or the mother-in-law on our first day, should we get a job over there or have a German partner, and this latter reason is apparently why about a quarter of the class is there.

These things are good to know, thanks everyone.

I found out yesterday that the German for a non-competitive friendly (football) match is Testspiel. I like that.

This thread ist der Hammer.

The German for pregnancy is Schwangerschaft.

i am making progress

relative pronouns are giving me jokes at the moment though

Schönes Wochenende!

Stinktier = stinky animal (otherwise known as a skunk).

Rollgabelschlüssel = "rolling-fork spanner" = adjustable wrench

Stinktier is excellent.

As we discovered last week on http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?action=showall&boardid=77&threadid=90864, the German for sloth is Faultier = lazy animal!

Ooh, I thought it was "faul" because they were smelly!

faul means both rotten and lazy.

Seem to remember in the early days of reunification the East Germans saying "Wir sind nicht faul" but maybe I am making that up.

When I visited Germany in the mid 90s, I visited Berlin with some friends of mine from North Rhein-Westphalia. The girl we stayed with was from a West Berlin family, and she apparently referred to our East German cabbie as "smelly" (in German), like, in the car with him.

I lol'ed:

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/internet-memes-schmetterlinggggg1.jpg

LOL tho schmetterling is a nice word

Yeah! I lold too but as far as German words go it's really not bad. Also, good to know it should be butterfly and not bowtie pasta. I had no idea.

lol, "motyl" is Polish for butterfly ... which is a lot duller than Schmetterling.

'butterfly' can sounds just as harsh and absurd if you drop the associations you have in your head w/ the word and a beautiful colorful creature

can sounds = english not my first language clearly

my favourite word in German is Büstenhalter

Mein deutsches Lieblingswort ist Straßenbahnhaltestelle.

in sheffield that is Superstraßenbahnhaltestelle

Wait what on Earth is it . . . street car stop?

Büstenhalter is a great word. Continuing with the boob theme so is Brustwarze - Nipples - Breast warts!

Wait what on Earth is it . . . street car stop?

yes or tram stop

lol 1980s brit punk rockers using a German word for their song title (and oblivious to the fact that Vikings were Scandinavian not German)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qj5AHm6u80&list=LLn-htGveAWBClerD_TzXNyg&index=1&feature=plpp_video

I suppose the German equivalent of a marauding force of warlike invaders would be a little too controversial

in Germany now, & I lol each time I see "einfahrt"

True story: When we were stationed in Germany, my grandmother came over to visit for a few weeks. She had been there a few days, and we were driving down the Autobahn, when she remarked, "That 'Ausfahrt' place must be huge, you can get there from anywhere.'"

She also somehow managed to plug a US hair dryer into a socket in Paris with no converter/transformer, nearly burning down the room.

Ha at the first story.

One thing that always makes me do a double take is when German and Italian words (and grammar) collide:

Dogenpalast
Gitarrensoli

to noodle, widdle, or shred on electric guitar = gniedeln (gneedeln)
slight pejorative bias.
Spießer (noun, M) - up-tight, stuffy, old fashioned, priggish, jobsworth, whitebread, bug-up-yr-arse, bourgeois, fuddy-duddy (adj= spießig)
still making no sense of die Fälle after two years.
tongue taking forever to get out of glottal stops & lazy english "r", german "r" being like that björkish clicking helicopter impersonation.
also "school german" explanations of pronunciation are largely false.
äu = "oy", eu = "oy", st.. / sp.. etc = "sht.." / "shp..." etc.
germans don't use the past perfect if they can help it.
it's a dang inefficient language for a people lazily stereotyped as dang efficient, & thus this febrile withering brain i have puts up considerable subconscious resistance to learning, despite the fact i know what it's up to. in one ear, out the other. kein Fortschritt ohne Übung, aber es scheint kein Fortschritt mit Übung, auch! so langsam, peinlich.

germans don't use the past perfect if they can help it.

rhinelanders love their plusquamperfekt, but they tend to use it inaccurately.

one thing i am struggling with: should i basically never use simple past in normal conversation (except for to be, to have, etc.)?

one thing i am struggling with: should i basically never use simple past in normal conversation (except for to be, to have, etc.)?

I take it that this list is meant to include the modal verbs? If so, then that seems pretty much right to me. I'm not a native German speaker, but I've been living in Germany since July.

But, another set of verbs that *seem* to me to also be used standardly in simple past in normal conversation are ones that are immediately followed by a Nebensatz, z.B.

Ich wusste, dass ...
Ich glaubte, dass ...

That's only how it has *seemed* to me.

One thing I'm unclear about with using simple past or present perfect, though, is what applies when it comes to what might be called 'formal speech'. I had learned and always heard that, outside of the few verbs that are exceptions, simple past is for writing and past perfect is for speech. But at some point, I was writing an e-mail to a friend, and I was unsure which to use. This was because it occurred to me that the distinction might really be between formal and informal contexts. I asked my German teacher here, and she said that this suspicion was right. That is, one should use present perfect in writing to a friend, just as one would use it in talking to a friend.

But what's confusing is that this doesn't seem to track formal/informal address with 'Sie'/'du'. I've definitely heard speakers siezen an audience while using present perfect. And I *think* I have heard some speakers siezen an audience and use simple past. My guess is that the former use Sie because they are talking to strangers and use the present perfect because they want to be relatively informal (I'm thinking here of speakers who have introduced classical music concerts or something like that). And I'm guessing that the latter just want to be super formal (I'm thinking here of academic lectures). I've been to a number of academic lectures, but I can't really recall for sure which the various speakers used. So, maybe that is all wrong.

I've been meaning to post more entertaining or interesting words here, but I forget. Here's one I came across a few days ago:

Geheimratsecken
- translation: receding hairline
- literally, something like: private council corners

This created some bewilderment when I was sightreading, as I knew what the component parts meant but not the word as a whole.

i guess i'm including the modals, ja. thanks. you're right about the nebensatz thing. i do hear ich dachte, dass... too.

i've been here on and off for two years now, but was deep in thesis writing in an english-speaking environment for most of that, so i'm only now getting around to making any formal effort to learn.

I should really really make a formal effort because while I can understand quite a bit my speaking ability isn't great. I can get by and make myself understood but I'm fairly certain it must sound really broken.

i've been here on and off for two years now, but was deep in thesis writing in an english-speaking environment for most of that, so i'm only now getting around to making any formal effort to learn.

I've guess I've done that in reverse: I started with German classes, but now am mostly thesis-writing in English. My speaking ability has definitely worsened since I stopped doing the classes.

i actually just quit the classes at my work. they were 90 mins twice a week, the teacher wasn't great (very limited english), and they were timetabled to cause maximum disruption to the working day on the days they happened. i'm thinking of doing 3h/day for the month of august to make a big effort to get from A2/B1 to B2.