Excelsior the book

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (832 of them)

I'm really, really sad that J0hn is leaving. He's always been one of my favorite posters. Best wishes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I was gonna chime in say the book was a really bad idea, but it looks like the damage has already been done so swiftly and efficiently that there's nothing even remotely concievable I could've done to stop it, so I'm not even sure there's even any point in me complaining.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link

this is all really fucking weird.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I am going to pull every Villiage Voice article written by ILXors off of the web and publish it as a book complete with blog excerpts, do you think anyone will mind?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link

This blows. J0hn is one of my favs, too. Crap. Crud. Darn. Sigh. Frumble. Gnash.

Hopefully this will result in long and erudite lastplanetoj4k4rta updates like every 15 or 20 minutes. Either that or like a new album every 4 weeks. I mean, he's gonna need an outlet.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link

i dont mean to be a jackass or anything. (none of my stuff was printed in there)

but...
what is the problem here? most of you dont even post with real names and people who would buy it would have no idea possible who wrote stuff.
second, if you are using your real name, then you obviously dont care if you are googled. and its much easier to google someone than buy this book... and how many random people are going to spend 18 fucking dollars for an ILX book when they can just read it online?

also, for those who object... would you also object if i printed these threads out and used them for my own amusement? i dont see any difference at all there.

what is the problem here?

if i am a dick or insensitive, tell me.

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link

NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY THE DAMN BOOK.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

TODD SWISS OTM

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, I'm selling CDRs of all of Mark's music and photography from his website. I'll post a Cafepress link soon.

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link

There is a non-negligible difference between writing something to a searchable online forum where you understand that someone might stumble across it but since everything goes back to a database it's only semi-permanent and still "somewhat under your control" and having said posts excerpted into a completely different medium which is then being sold to people (regardless of whether it's intended to turn a profit or not).

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan OTM, of course. I mean really, what is the point?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Todd, I think your points are fair. I actually did print off an ILM thread a long time ago to show to one of my music professors, and I now feel like I have some sort of responsibility to be retroactively guilty about it. Granted, making an actual book and selling it is quite a different matter, but can we really expect the things we write on here never to reach anyone outside "the circle"?

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Clarke, it's an open web forum. Anything is possible.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't wait to show all of my old funny posts that nobody got to my future children. if they do not laugh, I will be very angry.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Mark, why didn't you ask in advance? Seriously?

― Penelope_111 (Penelope_111), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.philipkdick.com/covers/valis-jp.jpg

― BRRRRR (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

But the base price is $17.86. Where's our fourteen cents?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link

John D is gone, Jon W is here, and I'm annoyed with that balance.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly, Ned, which is why I am kind of baffled by J0Hn's utter shock that someone would even think to do this. Isn't making a book or anthology out of online writing sort of obvious?

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:32 (nineteen years ago) link

TS: Someone stumbling onto a post via Google and referencing it vs Someone copying a thread into a book and selling it

Are you people massively dense or something?

While I'm sorry to see J0hn go, my issue is much less about his departure and much more about the GIGANTIC LEVEL OF STUPIDITY involved in doing something like putting people's copyrighted words into a product and selling it without asking for their consent first.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I understand why people are annoyed with this, but (and I may get struck by lightning for saying thus) I think J0hn might be overreacting a tad. Ned's response upthread seemed a little more reasonable.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post

Not only obvious, but kind of pointless, too, as you say (especially when the only way you can BUY the book is online, but if you have online access in the first place, why do you NEED it? etc etc) -- but is it really a surprise? And why did J0hn seem to take it so personally? I'm extremely upset to see him go, too, FWIW.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Clarke, the shock is not that someone might come up with this idea -- I presume the longer-standing members recall the Da Capo/Strokes conundrum, for instance. The shock is that even the Da Capo folks *asked* first.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Why are people shocked or surprised that J0hn left, particularly since (as nabisco pointed out) he is a public persona who makes a living based on his words who has just had a big chunk of free time excerpted into someone else's commodity?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link

(WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION should be at the end of my last post)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Because it's only happened once, and he hasn't given Mark the chance to do anything about it. And NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY THE DAMN BOOK.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

What was this Da Capo/Strkes conundrum?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

since I did say "will be leaving after this thread" and have become something of a point of discussion I will post-peace-out say this: have the people who are saying "you could google J0hn's name so what's the big deal" noticed how I spell(ed) my name in this forum? with a "zero" for an "O" and a "1" for an "L"? That's called "googleproofing."

I am so fuckin' angry and depressed about this, I love my ilx0r friends and am going to really miss them/y'all a whole lot but being printed without my permission is horseshit

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

1) because no one cares about the stuff in the book.
2) only we know it exists
3) I'm sure Mark Grout will pull it when he realizes how upset it made John.

xpost

― BRRRRR (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Nick, that's so fucking stupid I don't even know where to begin.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I am sorry to see J0hn go though. I want J0hn to stay, which is why I want him to realize this isn't really such a big deal. But I'm sorry he's upset.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22john+darnielle%22+site%3Ailx.wh3rd.net

It is really well known that "lastplanetojakarta.com" is J0hn's, also

― BRRRRR (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmm, Jon agrees with me. Maybe it is stupid.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm sure something can be done, John. Perhaps postpone your decision until you find out how this can be sorted?

― Penelope_111 (Penelope_111), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

That's called "googleproofing."

Yeah, but there's a ton of M0UNT@!N G0@TS threads and it's naive to think that someone can't work their way back to it. Not that the book is right, but it's not the earth shattering public revelation that you're making it out to be.

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

People do understand that CafePress is a printing service -- like Kinko's -- and not a publisher, right?

Feel whatever you feel regardless, but some of the posts sound like the posters think otherwise.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

dan, i understand where you are coming from... but.
j0hn isnt writing lyrics into these posts, sure it is copyrighted material (for what reason i do not know), but he is just bantering on like the rest of us.

and if he is ashamed of what he wrote, he shouldnt have written it in the first place/left a long time ago.

xpost i am sure

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry to have resorted to referring to ya in 3rd person, J0hn. It *is* horseshit -- I'm a very occasional poster compared to a lot of folks, and I'm all over that Gear's Couch thread.

J0hn, because you (unlike Mark) understand the openendedness of these threads, I can only assume that when you say you're leaving "after this thread," it's a cruelly subtle way of saying you're not leaving at all! Cool!

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

In theory I think the idea of an ILX book is kinda cool in an infeasibly geeky way, but people need to be asked. I am sad to see J0hn go and hope it's only a temporary thing.

Jon, people can't see full email addresses unless they're registered.

At least 3 Xs.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.mingthemerciless.com/bloomps.jpg

― DiMarceau Fishpower, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

It has nothing to do with shame/worth of posts and everything to do with "one thing that you should reasonably be able to expect when you post to ILX is that another ILXor will not copy things you've written into a book which will then be sold to people without asking you first".

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:46 (nineteen years ago) link

There's stuff on those threads from before I changed my name and took my work email address off ILX.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I really don't think that's a reasonable expectation for anyone who isn't brand new to the internet, frankly.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link

i didn't realize this would anger people. but it has. mark grout you get one of these to the side of the head, it won't hurt, but your honor should be damaged:

http://www.rainbownetrigging.com/rainbow-images/industrial-glove-big.jpg

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

It's not that people don't know I'm here: I'm fine with people know I'm here, deanomgwtf!!! It's that stuff-being-printed-under-my-name is quite a great deal different from talking- about-it-under-a-googleproofed-version-of-my-name-on-a-thread. That anybody here thinks "oh what's the big deal: talking on a forum, printing it in a book - what's the diff?" really exacerbates how shitty the whole thing makes me feel. I'm not "ashamed of what [I] wrote," todd - it was a conversation I was having with friends, not something I wanted preserved in print. It has nothing to do with imagining that people can't find me here - of course that's OK! It has to do with being printed/preserved for posterity in a way I didn't want. The idea that one should be as careful with one's words on an internet forum as one is when writing for print seems so patently ridiculous as to spurn further comment.

I'm gonna leave this thread & the forum now for real, as my attemps to clarify my position are just making me angrier & angrier. Bye everybody.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Tep; Why?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I think that 95% of us agree that mark did something dumb, but maybe we should give him a chance to do something about it before we completely freak out.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree. If, presumably, none have been sold, it can just be pulled, right?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

ps I keep thinking of the sitcom Dear John except in reverse and not at all. anyway great theme song. J0hn will be missed, but we must carry on. I for one have to do a radio show that no one will be listening to.

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 732 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.