― winter testing (winter testing), Friday, 11 August 2006 22:40 (seventeen years ago) link
I think I am less smart for reading that.
That's not his point at all and furthermore he's quite OTM in some ways (although obviously naive in others).
I personally can't stand the self-important "deep" lyrics that the Beatles brought to later pop music.
― xave (xave), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― wrapped up like a DOUche in the middle of the NUT (donut), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― winter testing (winter testing), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― xave (xave), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― wrapped up like a DOUche in the middle of the NUT (donut), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― unnamedroffler (xave), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― xavier (xave), Friday, 11 August 2006 23:55 (seventeen years ago) link
He labours the point a bit but I do find myself in agreement with quite a lot of it in theory (don't own a Beatles record except for a crap tape copy of Red + Blue I never listen to, and I heard Revolver once a long time ago). I think it's a consistent enough argument to be considered at least a little bit seriously.
I think what he fails to grapple with enough is the inevitability of (some) avant movements reaching the mainstream eventually, especially at a time of great(er?) flux like the 60's, and he also skips over the question WHY is white pop music automatically bad? It would seem that way at times through that article. Because it doesn't work for THE STRUGGLE (politically neutral or commercially compromised) and advance the cause of SERIOUS rock music? Okay it's rockism/popism all over again MAYBE. But still, a lot of Beatles tracks (but not all) DO have rather an empty, hollow feel to me and I wonder if he's not OTM at least once somewhere in that piece.
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 12 August 2006 00:02 (seventeen years ago) link
You're thinking of The Beach Boys circa 1968
I understand that they were *objectively* one of the best rock bands of the 20th century. I know they had the *best* songs recorded by the *best* producer with the *best* recording technology of the 20th century.
The Drifters were recording on better recording equipment in 1959. Tom Dowd, Atlantic Records' producer who institutionalized the 8track recorder (yeah yeah, Les Paul invented it), was shocked to learn that EMI/Abbey Road was only using 3tracks during The Beatles time.
Uh, John made a career out of both making up non-sense lyrics for the fun of it, and making lyrics that mock his fans that take his lyrics too seriously. I do realize that followers read too much into it and it spawned crap, but The Beatles themselves aimed to prevent that before it got started.
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 00:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Saturday, 12 August 2006 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link
"Diluting" argument would need specific examples to be of any potential resonance to me. "Drawing on" argument describes almost all pop/rock musicians.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 12 August 2006 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ruud Haarvest (Ken L), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link
In their songs there is no Vietnam, there is no politics, there are no kids rioting in the streets, there is no sexual promiscuity, there are no drugs, there is no violence. In the world of the Beatles the social order of the 40s and the 50s still reigns. At best they were influential on the secret dreams of young girls, and on the haircuts of young nerdy boys.
― starke (starke), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link
The jukebox's contents cover a ten-year period between Gene Vincent's "Be-Bop-A-Lula" from 1956 and The Lovin' Spoonful's "Daydream", released in 1966, whereupon Lennon stopped adding to the box. Largely by American R&B artists, they are songs that Lennon admired and many of them influenced his own writing.
Bobby Parker "Watch Your Step" 1961
There was a documentary based on this jukebox. The producers went to all the artists included in the jukebox and spoke with them about influencing Lennon. When they got to Bobby Parker, they opened with him playing the opening riff to Watch Your Step, which of course, is the riff from I Feel Fine.
But yeah, as I was saying, Watch your Step more than ripped off the riff form Ray Charles...the entire song is Ray's blueprint for arrangements during his Atlantic years.
(I also love that John is quoted calling John Sebastian [Lovin' Spoonful] a "damned tunesmith" due to his self-percieved non-songwriting abilities...which the last song on the jukebox of course, spawned Goodday Sunshine)
x-post
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:17 (seventeen years ago) link
Why don't we can do it in the road?
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Don't listen to much music, do you?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 12 August 2006 01:34 (seventeen years ago) link
"Hey Jude" na-na-nas: C/D
classic
Pop radio hadn't played anything that I can think of like the ad infinitum na-na-nas prior to this release. I think the na na nas are the best part of the song. And haven't we all, at one time or another, wished a certain segment on a track would get this kind of treatment?
― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 12 August 2006 02:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Saturday, 12 August 2006 02:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 12 August 2006 02:47 (seventeen years ago) link
McCartney is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel. The only band I can think of right now with halfway-defensible tunes and worse lyrics is Interpol.
― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Saturday, 12 August 2006 03:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 12 August 2006 04:42 (seventeen years ago) link
polls split 50/50. each side claims victory
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 05:48 (seventeen years ago) link
"Happiness Is A Warm Gun" is a terrible song. Like, really terrible.
I like the Beatles, though.
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 August 2006 06:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 12 August 2006 07:46 (seventeen years ago) link
To criticise McCartney for his lyrics totally misses the point...like focusing on the melody of a Dylan song. McCartney's a guy with a good sense of humor who's never taken lyrics very seriously. And because of this, he's a great lyricist. Some people just wanna fill the world with silly love songs.
― starke (starke), Saturday, 12 August 2006 09:10 (seventeen years ago) link
Of course, the main point about McCartney is melody and harmony.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 12 August 2006 10:09 (seventeen years ago) link
You're right. It's just that most pop/rock musicians don't get the omgwtfcreativegeniuses status given to the Beatles.
― xavier (xave), Saturday, 12 August 2006 11:42 (seventeen years ago) link
mccartney's 'sappiness' is also considerably overstated, at least during his good years - i suspect it has more to do with his public persona than anything he actually wrote. his 'love' songs (when not obvious showbiz pastiches) are almost always meaner and callower than people remember: "another girl," "i'm looking through you," "you won't see me."
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 12 August 2006 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Saturday, 12 August 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Saturday, 12 August 2006 14:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ruud Haarvest (Ken L), Saturday, 12 August 2006 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link
Well, they couldn't've been worse.
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Saturday, 12 August 2006 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ruud Haarvest (Ken L), Saturday, 12 August 2006 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Saturday, 12 August 2006 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link
P.S. I Love Them
― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― astronautagogo (astronautagogo), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link
Chim chimaree chim chimI am a chimbley, a chimbley sweep
― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sir Dr. Rev. PappaWheelie Jr. II of The Third Kind (PappaWheelie 2), Saturday, 12 August 2006 21:21 (seventeen years ago) link