Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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but music writing has such a smaller, less monied built-in audience for such a thing. must be in it for the art.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:44 (twenty years ago) link

then he could do an album cover for Teenage Fanclub, and that could wind up in the cutout bins, and FULL CIRCLE, MAN

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:45 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, did you notice that Louise Post of Veruca Salt changed her website as a result of what you wrote about her bitterness? You have not lived in vain. The world is now a much less bitter place. Let's pop a cork to that!

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:45 (twenty years ago) link

"Talent. My talent is different. You can't teach that. You don't have it. There's no secret. I'm good."

"It's the truth," he says.

He spits out a laugh.

"The Bible says speak the truth," he says. "It doesn't say anything about you having to like what I say."

Barry Bonds, 2003

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:55 (twenty years ago) link

as a message board troll, he's great

I come back after a few hours later and the thread is suddenly awesome. I've read the reviews and I don't really remember them, but I remember this stuff.

fffv (fffv), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:56 (twenty years ago) link

I'd be curious to see the Australian equivalent of this article... perhaps written by someone who works in a second hand record store though.

steve, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:59 (twenty years ago) link

This thread...and to think Chris, these people know nothing of Totally.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:01 (twenty years ago) link

Here's some constructive criticism Chris, since you are trolling for it:

1 - way too much copy, way too many page links. This piece cries for sarcasm in one sentence blurbs. This will not only make it more lively and entertaining, but less reliant on actual facts. And that's fine. (and as an aside, I'd say Pitchfork's biggest downfall is that there are too many damn words in every review; it's not the quantity dude, it's the quality.)

2 - keep the "homoerotic" comments to whatever it is you do with your boys when the town pump is being serviced. Then again, it's that kind of comment that makes Pitchfork such an easy target. So, I guess you'll keep that up.

3 - don't pick a fight with Matos. Or iLx. Why?

You.
Will.
Always.
Lose.

P.S. Bragging about having more pageviews than SPIN is not equitable to readership. Because if it is, you'd better start fucking paying your writers.

don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:02 (twenty years ago) link

Is Ott the one that is fond of using words like "mosat"? I think so.

Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:03 (twenty years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38204000/jpg/_38204814_bobby_gillespite300pa.jpg
"I looooooooooove Chris ART!!!"

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:04 (twenty years ago) link

We know how to read webtstats, son. *snicker* Yeah, we're BEGGING to inflate our worth. Money is made on valid stats, you think we fooled New Line Cinema with hocum? You. Are. Always (I can only assume). Wrong.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

don it takes a special special person to suggest ways to make pitchfork worse, and you are that person.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

"pitchfork's beating spin! now what?"

"we totally move into blender territory!"

(nb editors who may hire me i like certain parts of spin and blender fine, but the gag's too perfect)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:10 (twenty years ago) link

Bonds for MVP!

http://www.bondscentral.com/images/bonds7.jpg

ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:11 (twenty years ago) link

Money is made on valid stats, you think we fooled New Line Cinema with hocum? You. Are. Always (I can only assume). Wrong.

I decided to mosy on down to pitchforkmedia.com and look at the masthead. Chris Ott isn't listed as, oh, an advertising salesman, an executive of some sort or even an editor.

Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

This thread...and to think Chris, these people know nothing of Totally.

Do I have to register now to view the PFMS threads, or do I just have the wrong URL? Because you're right, that's where the most entertaining stuff is, but I haven't been able to check it out for the last week or so.

fffv (fffv), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

I think Chris' article fails because it tries to be critical of a lot of albums with historical perspective that it's obvious that he's too young to have...

for example:
when he blunders that jesus jones' "right here, right now" (which was released 1990 or 1991 depending on what side of the pond you were on) was "Another mid-90s one-hit wonder"* it is a forgivable error. it's when he follows with "we're only now running into younger fans that haven't heard", the condescending tone of elevated plurality is self-incriminating; the reader instantly recognizes just how transparent chris' stance is... he IS that "younger fan" he's bemoaning.

*as of 8:05pmPST, 09/23/03

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

I'd be curious to see the Australian equivalent of this article... perhaps written by someone who works in a second hand record store though.

1. The Stems, At First Sight
Ghastly post-INXS ska-funk with a brilliant Big Star cover stuck up front. Talk about hedging your bets.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:13 (twenty years ago) link

ps: chris, if that error goes unchanged in the next 24 hours, i will host an open bar FAP at my house.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:13 (twenty years ago) link

Oh Gygax, way to find ONE fucking inconsistency...I knew JJ from Liquidizer, and was well aware of atrocious contemporaries like MC 900 Ft. I was born in in 1975.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

You got it Gary, I'll repair.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

i swear to god it was the first thing i looked at... want me to find another one?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

I think Chris' article fails because it tries to be critical of a lot of albums with historical perspective that it's obvious that he's too young to have...

Not really. It's. Just. Boring.

I have a hard time believing that Pitchfork's target market would have the attention span to read through an article like this.

Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:16 (twenty years ago) link

I have a hard time believing that Pitchfork's target market would have the attention span to read through an article like this.

no less their critics!

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link

ps: i love this GWB era: errors = "inconsistencies"

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link

Overall I thought this was a pretty funny and readable piece for the 'Fork. It reminded me of that thread we had a while back about what "alternative" meant before Nirvana redefined it. Chris's piece I think captures the last gasp of that style as it dissolves into grunge, post-rock, etc. It might have been nice to have a bit more perspective on what that period means now, looking back from our perch in 2003. But it seems you have a love-hate relationship with this music, and I think that makes the writing come alive.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link

http://home.nyc.rr.com/wombat888/pfms/gaytotally.gif

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link

Bring it on Gary.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link

Have to say, I can't recall seeing that album all that frequently in second hand record shops...

steve, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, I've been on this green earth for much longer than you have. It may get you homoerotically charged up to refer to me as "son", but actually, you are my bitch. To be more specific, you and Pitchfork are pretty much the bitch of iLx. I can only assume you enjoy that role with the amount you troll here.

Furthermore, if you think your advertising space is more valuable than SPIN's, then you are a total fucking moron. Do not go bragging to me about New Line Cinema or how you guys got that deal--I've experienced more advertising sales and know more about that business than you will ever imagine. I know exactly, to the fucking letter, how that game is played. So if YOU are always getting things right, then start explaining right now how all the studios are lining up to advertise on Pitchfork before they run anything in SPIN. Oh wait, they're not doing that.

don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, this place isn't homoerotic ENOUGH. Seriously.
http://www.orsiitaliani.com/durstdc3.jpg

WORD!

But I love him for his talent, idiosyncracy and art. Seriously.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:24 (twenty years ago) link

oh now anthony
you will have to post a pic
of shirtless Gomez!

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:25 (twenty years ago) link

Don Weiner: Backing up zero of his shit-talking. I am laughing out loud at your entirely insubstantial, unverifiable blathering. Suffice to say, your reaction vividly illustrates how completely I. Own. You.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:26 (twenty years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/900000/images/_900925_victoria150.jpg

Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:27 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, whaddya think of the Bizkit? I know what everybody else thinks.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:29 (twenty years ago) link

Mr Ott's Bargain Bin project actually parallels (though doesn't rival in charm) our Beloved Leader's Popular project documenting every British number one since the 50s. Both are compelling in their grimness, their deviation from the canonical, their willingness to peek into the precipice of the vertiginously trivial. And yet it's precisely down there that the essence of pop is to be found. I will forgive Mr Ott his hubris in consideration of his courage in overcoming the vertigo of that horrid void.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:30 (twenty years ago) link

anthony, got any shifty shellshock pics? (fred scares me)

i wish brent Diwhatshisface posted on ilm. he's funny!

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:31 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.mtv.com/news/images/archive/Crazytown/sq-crazy-town-shifty-butterfly-col.gif

he'll make Scott's legs shake! Scott makes him go crazy!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:32 (twenty years ago) link

Momus, it's down to my exhaustion with this place. I'm not like this in person.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:32 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.londonpaparazzi.com/musicians/image/10042-posh_spice.jpg

Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:33 (twenty years ago) link

Go ahead Chris, point to one reputable agency in the world who will take your pageview stats and say they are equitable to readership/circ numbers in a magazine like SPIN.

And then, convince me that you have shitloads of advertisers lined up because you can deliver more effectively and better than SPIN.

And then, start bragging about how much you charge for ads.

And then start showing me all the auto ads you guys run and how much that industry loves working with you. Same for cigarettes.

Bitch, the last thing on earth I want to do is defend a marginally interesting read like SPIN--hell, I'll give you that your editorial is more compelling than theirs--but you make it easy.

don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:34 (twenty years ago) link

Ott just moved to NYC. FAP! We will have someone to play with Scaredy Cat.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:36 (twenty years ago) link

If you're so wizened with "the biz", Don, you know I can't discuss the particulars of any current negotiations, but they involve syndication. And dwarf SPIN and RS's readership combined.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.londonpaparazzi.com/musicians/image/10041-posh_spice.jpg

Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not like this in person.

You mean your best retort isn't "HAHA U R FAT"?

Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.

I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:39 (twenty years ago) link

What part of "they involve syndication" didn't you understand Milo?

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:40 (twenty years ago) link

I dunno, but I got the part where it's not related to what I said.

Let's try again:
"Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.

I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?"

And maybe we can go back to the advertising thing:

"Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?"

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, I'm very aware of syndication and the major syndicates in fact. I applaud your desire to protect the privacy of those involved.

But I can infer from your post that these negotiations will bring Pitchfork annual advertising sales equitable to Rolling Stone and SPIN combined--you know, you indicating that that your readership is that large and therefore, just as or more valuable and all. The syndicate is going to love you for that. My only question is why go with a syndicate if you are so valuable on your own? Oh I know, all that is tied up in the negotiation details as well but either way if you can kill off SPIN and Rolling Stone it will more than makeup for the hubris that has rolled out of that IP address over the past few years.

don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:47 (twenty years ago) link

mebbe pitchfork is gonna have its own t.v. show!

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link


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