― Dr. C, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
A band that truly deserved more success - if they had been a little bit more fashionable it might have happened for them. In around 1982/3 I think they were just a killer song away from a big hit. Perhaps the right support slot would have done it? Perhaps if they'd have been from Dublin or Manchester instead of Wimbledon? Perhaps with the right haircut....? Aw, who cares? They were great anyway.
I met Adrian a few times before he died - he was using the same rehearsal rooms with his band - and he was a genuinely nice guy, happy to talk about his days in The Sound. He was looking forward to all the albums coming out on CD.
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000006XJ2.01._PE_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
the album cover sucks, but they're classic ... then again, i just discovered them!
― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:39 (twenty years ago) link
The most recent album, Why Call It Anything -- given a miserably botched release in the States, it was downright painful to see how practically nobody at the recent shows last year here knew about it -- shows that they still have got it, but in a generally more quieter and contemplative way than before (they can and do still rip out the older stuff fantastically, though). There were some rumblings earlier this year that the band had fallen out again, but those seem to have been quelled for now? Hopefully so -- the solo show by Mark back in June was excellent as always, but it's all about all four of them playing together. Even one missing member in the lineup is really noticeable.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:49 (twenty years ago) link
Which was rather grim :-/
Just had a quick peek at the forum and, noticably, there are threads about different solo things... but no 'Chameleons' news.
:-(
― Muppet Boy, Monday, 20 October 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 20 October 2003 23:15 (twenty years ago) link
I think I've listened to those first three albums so damn much that if they ever lose the masters, they could probably press up fresh copies just using coronal sections of my brain.
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble (bimble), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― kickitcricket (kickitcricket), Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble (bimble), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link
One more thing on this topic: I'd like to defend Reg's cover art for their albums. I've always been impressed by how much detail and care and hard work he puts into the sleeves. Unlike today's computer graphics where you can just slap something together in no time.
― Bimble (bimble), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link
I was thinking about starting a thread along the lines of "Albums that are great but you're bored sick of the singles/most popular tracks" (this occured to me while listening to "Disintegration" recently). But I couldn't think of any other good examples at the time.
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link
I agree with you Ned. It always kind of pissed me off that people who were so completely ga-ga about The Edge's too-much-delay swampy guitar sound never seemed to notice that Reg was doing it better and without being part of a load of pompous asses.
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 17 June 2004 22:08 (nineteen years ago) link
Until now....
Sounds better than I remember...
Anything know this album? 'Intrigue in Tangiers" sounds good. Some of it sounds like Breakfast Club music (the movie, not the band), I'm sorry to say. Very '80s and synthy.
― shookout (shookout), Friday, 18 June 2004 00:08 (nineteen years ago) link
Maybe The Church's mid-eighties synth work is roughly comparable?
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 18 June 2004 00:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 June 2004 01:16 (nineteen years ago) link
I was delighted to read they'd covered "Moonage Daydream" - I do believe that's my favorite Bowie song and I'm not a huge Bowie fan. I'll have to check that album out for sure.
The production on What Does Anything Mean...I'm glad someone mentioned that. I can see how that would totally sound wrong to someone's ears who hadn't heard it at the time (much the way I feel about Loop's Heaven's End in retrospect). The thickness sounded really great at the time, it just worked. Although I do think Strange Times would be the one to get if you hadn't any Chameleons at all, What Does Anything Mean has always seemed like a more consistently great album. Also considering the production of it, I find it interesting in retrospect that there was no such thing as shoegazing yet, no frame of reference!
But seriously, I get so tired of people saying Chameleons are 'goth' (much the way they naively say that of The Church, a band I'm sorry to say have meant a lot more to me over the years than Chameleons) and lazy U2 comparisons. I remember asking Mark Gardner, lead singer of Ride, once if he liked Chameleons, and he mentioned something about "eh...college rock" or some such dismissive thing. I think a lot of people just don't understand the Chameleons, because they really can't be easily compared to anyone else. The Chameleons are just their own thing, in my opinion. I don't mean to say they were radical pioneers, necessarily, but they just had a style that was doomed not to ever fit comfortably inside any of the convenient categories of fashion.
I agree there seems to be a crossover with Church fans as well, Ned. I was thinking about this not too long ago, about how there's just a certain audience that have certain bands in common like that. Come to think of it, The Church is also another band difficult for a lot of people to understand or put in categories, while not saying they were radical pioneers, either.
― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 18 June 2004 03:54 (nineteen years ago) link
HE'S one to talk.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 June 2004 04:03 (nineteen years ago) link
Another band that occurs to me to fall in the category of "doomed outsiders of fashion": Adorable. Do you like them Ned? Oh, I know, I know...do a search. Frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment, don't mind me, I've obviously had a few drinks and plan on departing here for another website soon, anyway...
― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 18 June 2004 04:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 18 June 2004 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 18 June 2004 05:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 18 June 2004 06:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 18 June 2004 06:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― college rocker, Friday, 18 June 2004 17:22 (nineteen years ago) link
Incidentially I went to a huge goth night in leeds a couple of years ago where they played Swamp Thing and it rammed the dancefloor!
― flowersdie (flowersdie), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:55 (nineteen years ago) link
I also remember an art project I had in high school where I had to redesign an album cover - I chose Scrpit of the Bridge. I used the Union Jack and thought it was pretty cool, but it certainly wasn't.
― metfigga (metfigga), Friday, 18 June 2004 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― JC (JC A.), Friday, 18 June 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― poortheatre (poortheatre), Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― poortheatre (poortheatre), Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link
"If this is the stuff dreams are made ofNo wonder I feel like I'm floating on air..."
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 20 March 2006 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link
Classic, classic, classic.
The guitar riff on the track you quoted is amazing and timeless (and just as influential today as any JD riff).
(Saw them a few years ago at Kintting Factory- they still sound great!)
― Giles Manius (jsoulja), Monday, 20 March 2006 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 20 March 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 20 March 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link
Talking of which, a very many aeons ago, a wee Ned Raggett wrote:
I have every last dug-out-of-the-archive recording, just about all the various solo and side projects, and await the new album with bated breath
Ned, as well as the first three albums, I think I only have the mighty Peel Sessions record, the Fan and the Bellows and the Gallery Club show (so great to see the live footage on that). What stuff out of the rest of the archival/live material would you say was worth hunting down?
― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 09:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Yoo Doo Nut (donut), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 17:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― Yoo Doo Nut (donut), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.townsend-records.co.uk/i/covers/10000154.jpg
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 09:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 09:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Well said, Ned
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:14 (seven years ago) link
great piece ned
― nxd, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:15 (seven years ago) link
Thanks kindly.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:21 (seven years ago) link
Another farewell to him, from Black Swan Lane's Jack Sobel
http://blackswanlane.com/goodbye-john/
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 16:44 (seven years ago) link
https://scontent.fbed1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20663881_10156145323592137_7011716937297355767_n.jpg?oh=7f94036b7bb4faeeb7aca0c2f0a6dad3&oe=5A346751
― scott seward, Thursday, 10 August 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link
oh my gosh, that is both brilliant and hideous
― plp will eat itself (NickB), Thursday, 10 August 2017 17:53 (six years ago) link
found amidst table of wizard of oz collectible plates and figurines at yard sale in illinois, so nutty. old lady next to me was like "is that suppose to be one of them oompa loompas...or ?"
― popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Thursday, 10 August 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
LOL. Can just imagine the Mrs' face when comes home with that.
― Tonight I Cut My Temple Teeth (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
bump
― Shart Dressed Man (kurt schwitterz), Thursday, 14 September 2017 05:33 (six years ago) link
Touring now, going to see Mark and the latest band in Boston on Sat night.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 14 September 2017 12:44 (six years ago) link
Who sang the first track on Tony Fletcher?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 8 March 2019 20:13 (five years ago) link
Mark sings everything. Except for the toast on WCIA.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 9 March 2019 03:16 (five years ago) link
I hadn't realized that those Dreams In Celluloid recordings were non-studio album tracks. Started to realise when I heard "Everyday I'm Crucified". Cant forget a lyric like "I think I know how Christ felt when they killed him on that hill, pissed off!"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 9 March 2019 21:59 (five years ago) link
"Denims And Curls" sounds like a Morrissey song.
Another song on the EP sounds like a full-on "wake up sheeple" thing. Didn't notice until several plays that he was doing a sheep "baaaaa".
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 22 March 2019 18:22 (five years ago) link
Tony Fletcher (the person and the music recording) are both essential to life.
https://www.discogs.com/The-Chameleons-Free-Trade-Hall-Rehearsal/release/387186
Listening to that album for the first time in ages. The mix still leaves a lot to be desired, but it's just about impossible not to marvel at how good they were. Any 'Mad Jack' is bound to be good, but man they rip through it here. Probably my favorite recording of the tune.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Saturday, 20 April 2019 02:04 (five years ago) link
Holy shit, I forgot they do 'In Answer' on here as well. This song is absolutely gorgeous. Always has been.👍🏻
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Saturday, 20 April 2019 02:10 (five years ago) link
Yeah, there's a dearth of great live recordings from the "Strange Times" tour.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 20 April 2019 03:32 (five years ago) link
I don't think I will ever tire of hearing them move from the brute, maniacal charge in the first section to the sound of souls exiting in the second half of 'A Person Isn't Safe Anywhere These Days.'
Would still argue that's one of their absolute best; and one of the most "zeitgeist-esque" songs of the era.
Mark relaying the situation in one summed up and terrifying question after the outburst:
"`Have you killed her?`, someone said." is one of the darkest and most intense moments in recorded music, I'd reckon. Makes me scared to visit northern England for sure.
But also somehow one of the most profound and beautiful codas I've ever heard.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Saturday, 20 April 2019 14:16 (five years ago) link
xpost -- At least there's Live in Toronto. I know I have one other bootleg kicking around.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 20 April 2019 16:42 (five years ago) link
I used to have a boot from the Philly show but lost it years ago. I recall it being better than "Toronto".
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 20 April 2019 19:42 (five years ago) link
https://www.brooklynvegan.com/the-mission-uk-the-chameleons-touring-in-2022-with-theatre-of-hate/
― Bee OK, Friday, 8 October 2021 23:28 (two years ago) link
i used to love the Mission UK, they are so bad. just another U2.
― Bee OK, Friday, 8 October 2021 23:29 (two years ago) link
hmm, dave not involved with the chams. those dudes have been through it. has anyone heard any of his stuff post-reunion? last i knew, he was in a band called coconut dogfuck but i never checked it out. he strikes me as a very misunderstood person, just in general.
glad to see mark has reconciled with reg to the point that they can share a stage again. wonder who's going to be on drums - i didn't see any details in the link.
in any case, yes the mish are quite boring.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 00:42 (two years ago) link
is there a rundown of the beef between Mark and Dave somewhere?
― aegis philbin (crüt), Saturday, 9 October 2021 00:50 (two years ago) link
well, mark's book was about two-thirds about exactly that, so lol not really.
it stems from mark and dave both having gigantic egos and was really ignited by mark pressing up unreleased chameleons recordings and selling them without asking all of the other members of the group (though he did give them a part of the profits) [citation needed].
i think that sums up the genesis of their beef, but there is a lot more. how they ever got back together for the reunion boggles my mind.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 01:25 (two years ago) link
The unreleased stuff, that's what came out on Imaginary Records - "Dali's Picture", "Here Today", those albums, right?
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 9 October 2021 04:23 (two years ago) link
not the imaginary stuff; that was after they had somewhat come to an agreement. the initial conflict was over the glass pyramid stuff, i.e. the tony fletcher ep. from what i understand, the band agreed when they went their separate ways in 1988 that those recordings were "not finished" and therefore would not be releasing them.
basically summarizing from mark's book. as one-sided as his story is, it is pretty illuminating as to why those guys have such a strained relationship. considering they split on even worse terms after the initial reunion, i wonder how this new incarnation came to be.
all of this just makes me sad thinking of jon sitting back there pounding away at "soul in isolation." you know he'd be involved in this new tour if he was still alive.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 13:34 (two years ago) link
Yeah that's why I can't be bothered with this. Having seen Mark solo throughout the 90s, even with John on drums at points, he was absolutely essential there, but no guitarists could even approach the perfect flow of Reg and Dave together -- when I saw the 2001/2002 shows it all made SENSE, it has to be the quartet or nothing when it comes to Chameleons songs. I did see Mark solo with a backing band later in the 2000s and it was a solid enough show, but when he started doing that ChameleonsVox approach I was out, and now that John's gone, I'm sorry, but the band has definitively ended, no matter what label is being used. I'd think that even if Dave was on board.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 October 2021 15:55 (two years ago) link
I'd think that even if Dave was on board.― Ned Raggett, Saturday, October 9, 2021 8:55 AM
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, October 9, 2021 8:55 AM
inclined to agree here.
at this point, the innerband conflicts are becoming their most known legacy; and half of the band playing as "THE CHAMELEONS" doesn't seem like the kind of thing one does to extend the olive branch.
though i doubt most folks seeing them on this kind of bill really care. i do genuinely believe that mark feels like he is "giving the fans what they want."
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 16:57 (two years ago) link
Have seen chameleons vox a couple of times not really sure what to expect, but hearing Mark singing those songs right there in front of ne, it was impossible for me not to get swept away
― primate marmite (NickB), Saturday, 9 October 2021 17:18 (two years ago) link
see that's the thing: he is an outstanding performer. i saw him play one of his post-reunion pre-chamsvox pick up band gigs and it was fucking awesome. he played a bit acoustic before the proper set and he was taking requests for the sun and the moon songs, for fucks sake.
like i said, the guy seems to genuinely love his fans as much as they love him. and he has a gigantic ego, so he loves the attention it brings.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 19:37 (two years ago) link
also i didn't mean that ego thing in a demeaning way. don't get me wrong or whatever.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Saturday, 9 October 2021 19:46 (two years ago) link
Anyone seen them on the current tour? I'm thinking of going next week. Doubt I'd stay for the Mission but eight or so Chameleons songs still seems worth it.
― soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Sunday, 24 September 2023 18:41 (seven months ago) link
I saw them in June if that counts as 'the current tour'. Very enjoyable! Mark was on excellent form - charming and combative.
― giraffe, Monday, 25 September 2023 06:49 (seven months ago) link
ah thanks, that seals it
― soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Wednesday, 27 September 2023 15:16 (seven months ago) link
Saw 'em a few weeks ago, had a really good time! The Mission were fun too.
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Wednesday, 27 September 2023 15:18 (seven months ago) link
Playing the US in August
― from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 2 March 2024 01:56 (two months ago) link
Sweet. Still kicking myself for missing them last year, was utterly shocked how cheap it was and how small the venue was. Straight up injustice.
― brimstead, Saturday, 2 March 2024 03:58 (two months ago) link
Oh wow, and they're playing Strange Times. I might have to find a way to be in... Kansas City?
― soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Sunday, 3 March 2024 03:04 (one month ago) link
They were so good last fall, just wish the set had been longer, esp. after finding out they'd ended up headlining the night before. Could've listened to Mark riff on popular songs in the middle of "Soul in Isolation" for at least another hour.
― soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Sunday, 3 March 2024 03:05 (one month ago) link