burzum

^ cop out

I just hope my Old Funeral 7" quintuples in value so I can take a monetary stance by profiting directly off Varg's evil.

Y'know, let HIM fund MY evil endeavors. Muhahaha!

i think a person could believe in their heart of hearts "this is my culture as a aryan warrior god" and still think v.v. is a fucking retard, and also not be racist, multi xpost

wait, we seriously talking about how listening to music sends out spiritual waves of reinforcement to the artist? isn't listening to the music and then talking about it on message boards and with friends kind of the real issue?

multi-xposts

bumping google ranking is a kind of spiritual reinforcement

ts: freud vs tolkien

well, yeah, i just thought the mystical forcefield slant was kind of goofy.

xpost

Helping to build the artist's community by evangelizing for the greatness &c is kinda what I had in mind by one's heart being in it, not necessarily "sending Varg good vibes"

for me this is weird because i like burzum. have liked burzum for quite a while despite being fully aware of varg's filosofems. but i was able to compartmentalize it better when he was in jail. like, i dunno, like admiring birth of a nation for its formal qualities or whatever. not that i do that; i've never even seen BoaN, but you get the point... certain kinds of distance (like time or, apparently, imprisonment) make it easier to accept the ostensibly unacceptable aspects of things. kitschy sexism in old movies and tv shows, etc. with varg out of jail and pushing the old bullshit, my "purely musical" interest suddenly becomes a LOT harder to justify. not for any good reason -- i mean, i'm aware of the hypocrisy/dissonance of my former laissez-faire stance -- but so be it.

typing this way cuz it looks better with IBM console emulator stylesheet <3

Fuck it though, I think what you listen to affects your attitudes, subtly or obviously, unless you take concerted efforts to counteract the effects of what you're listening to. And in that sense by listening to and enjoying Varg or Skrewdriver or Five Iron Frenzy or Public Enemy (all have ideologies) is a form of support because you're allowing the attitudes that animate that music to affect you and the way you engage with the world. Maybe this is an unpopular argument in the era of "video games don't cause violence people cause violence" but it seems clear to my mind.

man this pink stylesheet with the penguins makes me type in long paragraphs lol

What about visual art? Does liking Van Gogh condone the cutting off of one's ear?

No, but Van Gogh didn't make paintings about how only the inferior races had two ears

^ possibly the weirdest thing i've ever said

I'm just saying it's an unfair comparison--an explicitly ideological artist whose art is (coyly or not) explicitly ideological is going to have a direct effect on listeners and their attitudes in a way that a less explicitly ideological artist like um Weird Al, say, is not.

someone told me once skrewdriver sounded exactly like limp bizkit which killed any curiosity i had for it.

also -- weird al has an ideology!

I said less explicitly ideological! I was raised a Marxist, I gotta cover my ass

yeah cap on vibes & whatnot all you want, I think that people lending support by listening to (approvingly, mind - burzum is like the one black metal bsnd that's the wedge act for a lot of indie cats to go "now this music is awesome," their stuff reaches beyond "the scene") nazi music legitimizes that music - there are plenty of people who won't play or listen to Wagner on essentially the same grounds, only spelled out a little more rigorously. the idea that the music a fascist makes is fascist music, and you're drinking up some of that fascism when you listen to it, and lending it validity, doesn't seem all that exotic to me. even less strange to my way of thinking, if you're inclined spiritually, is that music conveys something of the spirit of the person who wrote it.

re hoos: i dunno about lesser or greater effect, but in the case of ideological artists, you do have to question/decide how much room you wanna make for that ideology in your life. i'm okay, for example, with the ideological implications of nature trail to hell.

and to Nate: there's a lot of statist art from Communist countries whose aesthetics are inseparable from the ideology. there's fascist architecture, too. I think we're past the idea of a pure art that exists apart from any notions of ideology.

agree that varg makes nazi music. agree that supporting or even listening to burzum legitimizes varg's philosophy. to the extent that a lot of people do this, it makes varg a much more important cultural figure, both within racist circles and without.

also, unfortunately agree with strawman indie cats that his music, at its best, is remarkable (there, i did it: i supported him, added energy, spread the meme). not as remarkable as wagner, who i'll listen to without reservations of any sort, but still pretty damn good.

all of that leaves me feeling more than a little conflicted about the support i've given him (and apparently continue to give him), now that he's out of jail and spreading hate. maybe j0hn's right...

there's a lot of statist art from Communist countries whose aesthetics are inseparable from the ideology. there's fascist architecture, too.

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:14 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, but that only makes the issue more complex. i think a lot of high-modern architecture is fascist even though its stated ideology isn't. and i wouldn't necessarily reject all ostensibly "fascist" state-sponsored art & architecture on the basis of its stated ideology. while art and ideology are inseparable, they're not the same thing.

"at its best, is remarkable"
which album is it that's the best? (Don't worry, you won't turn me into a Burzumonster -- i'll keep my ideology shield up.)

"i'm okay, for example, with the ideological implications of nature trail to hell."

Shit. I've ended every Dj set of the last 60 days with "Nature Trail to Hell". That is top shelf songwriting and execution.

i'd go with filosofem, philip, and then maybe hvis lyset tar oss - but real black metal people seem to prefer the 1st two. filosofem is difficult due to the long ambient keyboard passages, but the good stuff is amazing. contains, "jesus tod", one of my favorite rock songs of any kind, ever. sounds like the munsters attempting to negotiate a mountain road, in the darkness, at 90 mph. keyboards are better integrated on hvis lystet, though.

the deed is done.

never did find the pink penguins, hoos

found penguin :DDD

t/s: buying burzum albums (1 murder, bad politics) vs. paying taxes (tens of thousands of murders, less bad politics)

t/s: Murdering people vs. listening to Burzum.

(Burzum just came up on shuffle!)

This is an interesting discussion - despite my reservations, I actually dowloaded Filosofem earlier in the year as part of my excursions into black metal and was/am considering buying a physical copy because it's such a good record and the distinction being talked about here has weighed on my mind a bit.
Re: Wagner I have to admit that I'd feel less guilty about buying music by someone no longer alive - I realise that you'd still be contributing to their popularity in the general scheme of things, allowing the artist (and by extension whatever baggage comes with them) to 'live on' but I suppose with them not being around to feed off any of it the act feels less harmful. Of course there might well be other people with abhorrent views who might be heartened by it so it's not like the work loses all its ideological associations once its creator passes on.

Am listening to filosofem right now, but how do you guys feel about Laibach or Whitehouse as musical substitutes?

laibach aren't fascists, though. they're an arts collective who use the iconography/idea of fascism to criticize pop culture. and whitehouse are just horrible twits who like saying bad words. plus i don't think either band is anywhere near as musically interesting/satisfying as burzum.

whabbout Death in June?

^^^ that's closer to the point.

Are there a lot of black metal bands to choose from or only a few? Are there black metal bands who have been influenced by burzum - who even bite their styles and rip them off - that don't promote a nazi ideology?

look up the other black metal threads, it's been talked about a lot iirc

Well, but they've been talking about it here all afternoon as far as I can tell. The point being, if you want to listen to bm, you are not wanting for options.

"laibach aren't fascists, though."
That's what i mean -- is it critical to have them be sincere? I can't think of anything more humiliating for race-hate groups than to have the weird als of fascism be considered the vanguard of their genre.

i dunno. do neo-nazis get behind laibach? i'd be surprised, but then again, i often am. if they have a significant neo-nazi following, then their "playful ambiguity" becomes a problem. but this is all make-believe until i hear different.

dunno whether varg's sincerity is at issue. we can't ever really know, right? he presents himself as sincere and is accepted as sincere by others, to the point where he's an important figure in nsbm circles. that's the important part.

I will both buy the album and go see him.

I give him props for being an innovator but I'd rather listen to Marblebog.

Unless I'm after some hot synth saxophone and then I go straight for Daudi Baldrs.

love it

Preorders up at plastichead

http://www.plastichead.com/catalogue.asp?ex=fitem&verb=F&target=BOBV215LP

Tracklist:

Lukans Renkespill
Belus' Død
Glemselens Elv
Kaimadalthas' Nedstigning
Besøk Til Kelio
Alvenes Dans
Alvegavene
Sverddans
Keliohesten
Morgenrøde
Belus' Tilbakekomst

The Return of Burzum
It's been 11 long years and now the world will see the return of Burzum. The highly anticipated new album is entitled "Belus" after the name of the ancient European solar deity of light and innocence. "Belus" is not a religious album or an anti-religious album, nor is it a political one, but an attempt to explore the myths about Belus and unveil the oldest roots of our cultural heritage. The album deals with the death of Belus, his sombre journey through the realm of death and his magnificent return. In essence the album and the story of Belus is meant to be an entertaining story about something that once upon a time played a major role in the forming and shaping of Europe.

"The album has been made according to my heart and spirit, and not to fit into any particular genre or category, or to live up to anyone's obvious expectations". The music can best be compared to the music of some of the old Burzum albums; in particular the ground breaking "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and the atmospheric brilliances of "Filosofem", only the ambient parts present on these albums has been almost completely left out on "Belus". "There is no special reason for this, other than coincidence and the fact that I have for some time made more and better music on the guitar rather than on the keyboard".

"Inspiration for the album has come from a variety of sources, and I find my inspiration from fairy tales and myths, from classical music, from memories of what once was, from traditional music, from fantasy, from the wind and weather, from deep forests and running water, from the sky and the sunset, from misty mountains and from yellow leaves falling from age old trees".

"My ambition with "Belus" is to create something I - and hopefully others too - can listen to for years and years to come without ever growing tired of it, and at the same time to share with my audience the experience of getting to know Belus, as he might have been perceived by the ancient Europeans". The combination of lyrics and music makes this a fairy tale different from most others, and should appeal to all those who like transcendental music and love to see different things from a different perspective. "If I can make you dream when listening to this album, I believe I have done a good job".

"I am aware of the black metal association with the name Burzum, and I have no real and serious problem with that, but I personally see no reason to place "Belus" in any category. I think "Belus" musically transcends all existing categories, but if I have to choose one - and for the sake of simplicity - I will simply place it in the metal category".

"Belus" will be released worldwide on Byelobog Productions on the 8th March 2010.

I bet most of us download it to check it out but dont wanna buy it to give the prick any money.

I never heard any album in full til a year or 2 ago cuz he is a nazi prick, but there's no denying that those albums were quite something. But its not something i could play much because of his views, even if not referenced in the music and i could never buy.

when I bought a vinyl copy of Filosofem a few years back, I was under the impression that he wasn't getting money from the sales of the older records. am I mixing this up with some other Norwegian black metal court case?

He owes ridiculous amounts of money for those churches he burned, but I'm not sure if any of his income is funneled directly into paying that off.
There was an article in one of the papers last year, where he complained about receiving a bill from Oslo municipality once a month for the amount of 18 million kroner (roughly 3,1 million US dollars), though I believe his full debt is more than twice that.

So uh, yeah, I'm not sure what happens with your shopping money.

Yeah I heard the royalties go to the church as well, no idea if it's true.

why would anyone want to help him pay off his criminal debts?

so that the victims actually get some money? I mean, I received victim's comp once and the guys who beat me up never paid it. I don't think this is the same as "helping" since he is clearly never gonna pay that $$ off by himself.

I agree that this is somewhat of a moral grey area, though, and don't intend on buying any more now that ILM has taught me more about this dude than I knew five years ago. I would like to know more about how the escrow or whatever works.