die hard v. hard boiled

I mean every single cop-action movie stereotype is in that movie! It's a treasure trove of ridiculousness.

this is a for real difficult choice. Have watched Die Hard most Xmases for about ten years. Hard Boiled also a perennial favourite tho.

die hard: better story, Hans fucking Gruber. Hard Boiled: better action scenes, Chow Yun Fat and Tony Leung Chiu-Wai are pretty awesome, better score.

I'm truly unsure how aware Woo is of his own ridiculousness. His films are so stylized but also so earnest, and if the presence of every single cop-action cliche in a film means the director recognizes its ridiculousness, then Michael Bay is a post-modern master.

"Hard Boiled" is kind of an ultra-violent cartoon. But "Die Hard" is practically a comedy.

Hard Boiled no contest. I hate Bruce Willis

there's an intolerable smugness present in everything he does, really irritates me.

it's not present in die hard

die hard is really good, and i think woo kind of sucks. how about some more slo-mo to pad things out? ok! be impressed!

if this was the killer vs. die hard then bruce would be goin down, but as it is die hard has to take it

srsly shakey if smugness is what you hate about willis you should love die hard!

in re "inspiration" i'm not taking down woo at all, but die hard is four years ahead and hard boiled nods to it pretty directly. i'd actually have more trouble with die hard vs the killer tbh. all great, no losers here, etc.

xpost feelin a hoos here tbh

glad to see die hard supporters coming out of the woodwork--the movie is undeniably radical, one of the greatest american action movies

max otm

die hard completely changed the paradigm for action flix and broek hearts of a whole bunch of actors who'd been lifting and tanning way too much in the hopes of becoming the next sly/arnie

plus reginald veljohnson!!

plus yippie kai yay motherfuckers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpG9YaPF-nM

"what do you want it to say on your tombstone, john?"
"how about......yippe...ki....yay...mother...fucker"

argyle is great in die hard

"then Michael Bay is a post-modern master"

It's pretty hard to argue that Michael Bay is unaware of his films' ridiculousness. Not saying that makes him a post-modern master.

Anyway at the point where a baby is peeing out a fire it's kind of hard to argue that a movie is a 100% straight.

see I watched Die Hard the other day (the inspiration for starting this thread) and I don't think it's aged particularly well. there are three good things about it imo: bruce willis, alan rickman, and johnson and johnson. I found the whole fake camaraderie between willis and Al to be 10x more cringeworthy than even the most broish love scenes in a john woo movie. also the veiled cryptoracism (am I using ilx newspeak right?) against the japanese

eh i thought nakamura came off OK in the movie? unless theres something im forgetting

there's the "do you even celebrate christmas in japan" with the "we couldn't get you with pearl harbor so we're selling you tape players instead" plus according to wikipedia nakamura's password is a reference to one of the carrier ships in pearl harbor. I mean I realize on one level it's supposed to be 'joeks bruv' but I don't like the insinuation that no matter how americanized nakamura is his loyalty lies first with japan, which I think reflects the uneasy tension between japan and america back in the late 80s

the fake camaraderie IS cringeworthy but srsly it's a movie from 1988... i forgivenore a lot of that stuff the same way i forgive the weird speech rhythms in Bringing Up Baby...

yeah I was surprised to see so many people repping for reginald valjohnson, all those "all the boys down here are rooting for you" and "you got kids" lines were...ugh. and the ending with reginald shooting the bad guy after the whole "I shot a kid" bit!

I think my problem with Die Hard is that it never has the courage to turn into a full out and out satire/comedy, willis & rickman basically will it into a good movie by sheer force of charisma. think it would have been much better as a verhoeven piece

there's the "do you even celebrate christmas in japan" with the "we couldn't get you with pearl harbor so we're selling you tape players instead" plus according to wikipedia nakamura's password is a reference to one of the carrier ships in pearl harbor. I mean I realize on one level it's supposed to be 'joeks bruv' but I don't like the insinuation that no matter how americanized nakamura is his loyalty lies first with japan, which I think reflects the uneasy tension between japan and america back in the late 80s

― 囧 (dyao), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 7:58 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hm i guess i forgot about this. at least he comes off way better than the beardo yuppie guy.

yeah I was surprised to see so many people repping for reginald valjohnson, all those "all the boys down here are rooting for you" and "you got kids" lines were...ugh. and the ending with reginald shooting the bad guy after the whole "I shot a kid" bit!

what is the matter with these scenes? besides troubling politics i guess

tbh one of the great things about HK cinema back in ye olde 90s was that you didn't have to cringe at the cringeworthy stuff because it didn't feel as close to home.

just felt really canned and calculated, like the ending of a john irving novel xp

cringeworthy maybe but i dont know its like complaining that a sting song is "too lush" or something

i mean it fits with the tone of the rest of the movie. imo.

I don't think so! the repo man-ish tone set by the incompetent police, media sharks & sadistic fbi agents is totally at odds with the fake camaraderie

also I will never accuse a sting song of being too lush, <3

people still like john woo? woow

Just cuz he made Broken Arrow and Windtalkers doesn't mean that his HK films aren't still great.

think it would have been much better as a verhoeven piece

What wouldn't (at least with Ed Neumeier writing)?

You want perfect and efficient character introduction? Check out all the beats in the first ten minutes of "Die Hard" alone that establish who John McClane is, culminating in him riding the limo with Argyle ... in the passenger seat.

Also, x-posting the above, yeah, Willis and Rickman are 90% of this movie, but "Die Hard" might have even worked as a minimally set stage play with these two in the leads.

The elements of "Die Hard" that have aged poorly are the same '80s elements that have aged poorly in virtually every single film of the same vintage (from "Crocodile Dundee" to "Rain Man" to "Big" to "Working Girl." The hair, random drug jokes, the (first?) token black hacker genius, the yuppies ... they're the visual equivalent of gated snares and chorus effects on guitars. The difference is that "Die Hard" set (or reset) the action film template, so its cliches transcend. And damn is it efficient. Watching it with an eye on the clock is an education. Characters are all introduced, action in motion precisely 20 minutes in.

Oh, and Al Leong!!!

http://www.avforums.com/images/obscure/AlLeong_1.jpg

i would <3 to see die hard the play

max fischer style

it would be called play hard

easily Hard Boiled

(I've only seen a few minutes of Die Hard on TV)

you should watch it--you will learn a lot about skyscrapers and Twinkies

easily Hard Boiled

(I've only seen a few minutes of Die Hard on TV)

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

LOL

Seriously brah, quit voting in these poll threads that are about movies you haven't seen.

die hard is, at times, my favoriteest ever movie

"Seriously brah, quit voting in these poll threads that are about movies you haven't seen"

Quit making stupid rules.

I've never seen the entirety of Die Hard either so what

Who doesn't have 2 hours to watch "Die Hard?" Cripes. Be thankful. If it were made today it would have been 3.

Another great thing about "Die Hard?" Bruce Willis is barefoot the whole time! What a subtle way to make your hero more vulnerable, and it pays off, too. Anyone ever read the book this was based on? It was based on a book, right?

yes, it was based on The Bible

Die Hard. i thought Hard Boiled just got too stupid/lost interest by the time he's shooting people while holding a baby or whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Thorp

thorp's novel abt the green river killer is absolutely amazing, btw

willis being barefoot is so great

Who doesn't have 2 hours to watch "Die Hard?"

plz revisit this question when you're in your 40s.

yeah I was surprised to see so many people repping for reginald valjohnson, all those "all the boys down here are rooting for you" and "you got kids" lines were...ugh. and the ending with reginald shooting the bad guy after the whole "I shot a kid" bit!

his whole character arc is learning to shoot people again!!

yeah it's still lame tho

i wasnt saying that in its favour really

Yippies, Up Against the Wall Motherfuckers, and CIA = Yippie Kai-Ai Motherfuckers

oh great, bbc3 is showing 'e hard with a vengea'

possibly not in the proper aspect ratio.

you racist bastards

lol

die shart

i can't believe this

http://i.imgur.com/7HxQAy3.jpg

Kinda surprised by Louis's woo enthusiasm

Speaking of which, I initially took this thread to be pitting die hard against hard target

Hard Boiled no contest. I hate Bruce Willis

― mr. strawman spotter (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:30 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a better tomorrow 2 vs a good day to die hard vs tomorrow never dies

i totally forgot that anthony wong played the bad guy

http://i.imgur.com/ByyUddN.jpg

when does he not?

Speaking of which, I initially took this thread to be pitting die hard against hard target

― a mom shaped pom (wins), Friday, May 27, 2016 6:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if the fabled director's cut of Hard Target was available then i'd have no problem pitting it against these two

is it even sexier than this

http://www.gifwave.com/media/56298_jcvd-hard-target-punching-the-snake-beating-the-seent.gif

so beautiful

rly want to see HB at the cinema - thread revival got me to chase the trailer on YT

i totally forgot that anthony wong played the bad guy

― 龜, Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:31 AM (one year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when does he not?

― like $500 billion in stuffed fart sales and I have an idea (contenderizer), Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:53 AM (one year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Infernal Affairs, Beast Cops, The Mission, Exiled, Vengeance, Full Contact (sort of not a bad guy), etc...

i voted for Die Hard, still might, but i love Hard Boiled. i saw every other Woo classic before i saw this one, but one day my video store got a subtitled copy of this one in and I rented it and i wanted to pass out from delight after i watched it. i don't know how much i paid to find a copy of it on tape, but it was worth it.

just the way Woo will film a pretty simple moment like a guy on a dock taking a shot at Tequila, missing, and hitting a post while the latter dives out of the way. or Tony Leung diving through a half-built car while it blows up around him, hit by a shotgun. it's beautiful.

oh yeah this

https://68.media.tumblr.com/76706accdbc1eff1cb1626d65f958658/tumblr_oc5u3fazmu1tbcweeo1_400.gif

saw the mission for the first time recently ,what an awesome movie

If you are in the mood for a John Woo B-movie, check out that Blackjack 'tv pilot film' from 1998 that is on Amazon. That thing is a doozy. It stars Dolph Lundgren and Kate Vernon (aka Mrs. Tigh from Battlestar Galactica) as Dolph's psychologist/lover along with Fred Williamson showing up in a smaller role. It's pretty wacky and kinda like Xena or Hercules in quality, but the action scenes do have some Woo style gun action.

I feel like Neil S. never got proper credit for this:

Too hard.