medical school

BAM

curious to know what the post-earthquake response as been on y'alls campuses

also my dad just mentioned that he's thinking of trying to get down there sometime in the future (he's a reconstructive surgeon, so he'd be doing "clean up work" as they say), so that's neat.

aaaaaaaaand renal/endo/pharm midterms tomorrow whoops time to get off the internet

hello cushing's disease, how are you

We were in the middle of another charity driving thing so our response was a little slow, tbh. They started a contest btwn the first and second years to see who could raise more, so hopefully we will make more stuff happen.

haha so i just cruised through the note coop wiki (which is where i do a lot of studying, actually) and noticed that we have a new Med Wiki Blog. Called.....The Wog.

lol midwesterners

:-/

also: we had one of those fundraisers, too, between classes! raised a decent sum for PIH, it was good stuff.

"my" student group (PHR-affiliate) is gonna try and do something soon, but it will probably be focused on haitian immigration more than direct relief.

cf my friend j3ff's editorial here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-kahn/cut-the-red-tape-why-hait_b_434209.html

nother pharm class gbx? thought you took that last semester?

my stepdad (vascular surgeon, experience in trauma) is trying to find a group to go down with.

anyway there was a meeting i couldnt go to last thursday, i'm hoping either the pharm school or the school in general is planning trips down there over spring break, if that's even possible. still waiting to hear

pharm is a year long course for us right now

tomorrow is midterms for

pharm (steroids, diuretics, obesity, HTN, diabetes)
renal (Na balance, K balance, water balance, edema, renal failure)
endocrine (pituitary, adrenal, lipid/obesity, diabetes, bone regulation)

kinda freakin out a bit, but at least it's not finals

damn dude, how long has school been in session for? i'm about to start my second week, i dont think i have any true midterms until week 3ish?

also damn 3 in one day? how many classes are you taking?

six

we've been going since 4 jan

oh wow your break must have been short then (you're going to minn right?). i'm taking nine classes but it's only 21 credits. buying books is going to suck tho

yeah, 22 dec to 4 jan, super short

We got 2 weeks for winter break 1st year and then there's 3 weeks in second and third year, and then 4th year there's the weird extended period where you're supposed to be interviewing for residencies but otherwise are not in school. I forget how long that is for us (like six weeks? eight?).

We just did a three week section of renal and neuro. Renal was kinda weird because last year for renal physiology we had one professor give like a three week series of lectures that very carefully and entertaingly (in as much as renal physiology can be entertaining) explained everything really well, so everybody really liked renal. Then this year it was a bunch of people, and a lot of classes where they just dumped pathology on us, so there are not many of us who kept any interest in nephrology. Neuro is weird because a ton of people hate it but I think it is rad, so I can never accurately gauge the room's interest. It is definitely my favorite thing right now if I were to do a medicine residency instead of a surgical one (when I'd probably still go ortho), but I doubt I'm gonna get a handle on medicine vs. surgery until 3rd year. Sweet sweet 3rd year, so very close.

i'm taking a 5 credit neuro module this semester, not looking forward to this playing out

Neuro pharm seems less horrible than cardio pharm, although I haven't taken the neuro exams yet so maybe I am just full of unwarranted confidence. At the beginning of cardio they even told us, the hardest part of path was heme/onc, which we had just finished, and the hardest part of pharm was going to be cardio. And then they proved themselves right!

Although we did have anesthesia last week as part of neuro, and whoever said anesthesiology is like flying a plane seems totally otm, except I didn't realize that analogy also extended to the fact that accidentally nudging one dial a little too high would result in the plane crashing suddenly into the side of a mountain. That many drugs all at once just seems terrifying to me.

last year for renal physiology we had one professor give like a three week series of lectures that very carefully and entertaingly (in as much as renal physiology can be entertaining) explained everything really well, so everybody really liked renal.

whoah weird this is our situation, too, except that he's back this year. and i'm making him dinner in a few weeks.

i mean i secretly really like renal, even though i'm certain i'm going to do horribly on the test tomorrow. ditto most of this endocrine stuff: i like feedback loops and the like. seems like there's less weensy little facts to remember and more big pictures

just, like, really complex pictures. and ditto: i actually enjoyed taking my neuro final, even though i'd been up for like 24 hours. localization is neat!

localization is neat!

Did you use Blumenfeld? Great book, pretty much anyone I've met who likes neuro after med school learned how to localize from Blumenfeld.

Friday morning, I opened my Neurosciences Grand Rounds presentation (on Neurologically Unexplained Symptoms, aka Functional Neurology) with the maxim/joke I used upthread about the difference between psychiatry, neurology, and neurosurgery. No one in a room half-full of neurologists and neurosurgeons had heard it before. Now I can't find it anywhere online. Did I make it up somehow? I'm not usually that clever...

i hadn't heard it in that form, but i've heard similar jokes? usually a little more mean spirited, though, like psyches don't really know anything, neurologists can't really do anything, and neurosurgeons don't really know what they're doing

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i6e742a66c22a2552a1b148e2c35adb6f

"HMS" is about the exploits of the sexy freshmen class at Harvard Medical School through the eyes of a young female student.

I am glad someone has decided to talk about how much exciting sexy action happens in medical school, because you know, that is absolutely a thing.

f u hms

i am getting laid *right now*

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/15/education/15medschools.html?hpw

more abt the exploits of sexy med school freshman

where is dyao

ayo

(d)

is there something you'd like to tell us

??????

lol so I basically am in need of life advice. am at a crossroads in my life. currently studying for law school but wondering if med school would be a better choice. always loved science in high school but majored in lit in college instead without taking *any* science courses. would like to know if there's any path/track in med school where I don't have to take on crushing amounts of debt. that's basically my question in a nutshell.

my contract here is coming up for renewal here so I need to decide if I want to 1) stay here and apply to law school or 2) go back to the states and enroll in some program that will catch me up

goin to bed now but looking forward to your thoughtful responses ~

ok, so i also majored in lit in college w/o taking ANY science. hence: did a post-bacc.

here is the thing w/a post-bacc---it tacks on another year of debt, and another TWO years of "pre-med" (the gap year is unavoidable---you gotta take the MCAT after taking the science classes, which means the summer BEFORE you apply, so there it is).

i was fortunate enough to not have undergraduate loans, so i saw the post-bacc program as a med school tryout, of sorts. if i hated it, shat the bed, w/e, then at least my cumulative debt was only one year of state school. if i liked it, great, off we go.

if it's coming down to law school v. med school, there are def a lot of variables to consider

1) time---law school is shorter, requires no pre-reqs, plus NO RESIDENCY. when u r out u r out, and are a lawyer making a lawyer salary
2) $$$---med school is pricier simply because it's a year longer. also, you'll have the added year of post-bacc, and a gap year of sustaining yourself. AND you won't make shit during residency, so you're ability to rid yourself of debt will be postponed at least 3-4 years longer. AND even though docs make a ton of money, lawyers have the potential to make quite a bit more (i know a 2nd year lawyer who just got a bonus that's equivalent to a 2nd year resident's salary).
3) ~lyfe~ medical school produces physicians, full stop. the time/$$$ constraints basically mean that once you're in, you're in. i mean, obv you can ACTUALLY do w/e you want, and maybe you will follow the example of everyone's favorite asian internist and become a tv star, but really: you're gonna be a doctor. lawyers can kinda do whatever they want, and it seems like "non-practicing" is as endemic to the legal profession as it is to catholicism and judaism. so if it's flexibility/freedom yr after, law school is the better choice.

something else to consider: law SCHOOL seems pretty clearly more "fun"/stimulating than med SCHOOL. i flirted briefly with looking into a MD/JD (ie - heard a good med mal lecture, bought an LSAT book on sale, didn't open it, story of my life, etc), but was talked out of it by my sister (a lawyer). basically, i was like "but law school is intellectually stimulating and you argue all the time! med school is just FACTS" and she was like "yes you are correct, but the PRACTICE of law is/can be stultifying while the PRACTICE of medicine is life-long learning/problem-solving etc"

not actually true, imo ("boring" is what you make of it), but worth thinking about it. do you want another round of stimulating academic life, or do you want what results from it? i'm over simplifying (and sorta making a stereotypical lawyer v. doctor joek), but it might be helpful to frame things that way. law=cheap, quick, "disposable" (u can always do something else) med=pricey, loooooong, u can never leave

i am of course ignoring here all the "noble" reasons ppl choose either law or med, because we already know all of them

god so many typos, med school u have ruined me

im not the best qualified to talk abt this aspect but there are a # of ways to defray the cost of actually attending - although i think its good to be realistic about how much money you'll be making/have for the next ten years - but the biggest cost may be the next year+ of applying. in addition to undergrad courses you'll have to take the mcats and the application process itself costs a bunch of money.

my undergrad was math/econ. once i had decided that i was interested in med school i went back and did a year and a half of std chem/bio courses. i was able to do those p/t while i was working f/t. i took these at my alma mater & the med school admissions ppl helped w/what courses i shld take which was really useful.

like gbx i didnt have any loans and i cld afford the courses on my salary - basically meant that the money i wouldve been saving i spent on school instead. i also spent a lot of time working on volunteer and research xp and studying for the mcats. i was lucky that i had a job that was both remunerative and flexible. unless you're really sure idk how good an idea going to school f/t wld be?

this will be mb a little disjointed but: the med school application process is really draining ime and takes a huge amount of commitment. its not really comparable to grad school or law school. i think its a lot more impt to have settled in your own mind ~why~ you're doing this. certainly that was the one thing that really came through in my interviews - that med schools aren't partic interested in some1 who is ambivalent abt becoming a doctor.

lol @ this monster post. i guess what i'm trying to say is: over and above financial considerations i think its really impt to have considered your goals w/all of this.

there are plenty of reasons to be wary about law school too (law school thread is worth reading)

'when u r out u r out, and are a lawyer making a lawyer salary' = if you go to the right school and have good grades and the economy is good

@lamp: cosign

@iatee: oh of course, i def glossed that. which is another "practical" consideration: you ~will~ have a job when you are done with yr medical training. and it is highly unlikely that we are going to reach any time soon the point where we've got a surplus of american MDs.

but yeah: really consider ~why~ you might want to be a doctor. it's the classic/boring med school application question, but you know it's there for a reason. there are plenty of people out there DYING to get into doctor school, so if you're ambivalent they'll neg you ASAP. also: the application process IS really draining and acts as sort of a final "weeder class." a handful of the ppl i did my post-bacc program with were so daunted/put-off by the whole thing that they bailed and took easier/less stressful routes into healthcare.

haha i will say: its unfortunate but the best way to ~figure it out~ is to do it. not just taking courses but volunteering and talking to doctors does a) give u a better sense of the process and b) clarify what your options are and mb what u want out of the profession

also i had dinner this wknd w/some1 doing her obstetrics residency ~ as much as gbx is right that you're probably more limited in your options with an md there are still a huge range of really ~rewarding~ options once you're in med school. its p exciting imo

i agree!

Daaaaang I look away from this thread for a lecture on neuroleptics and then it blows up.

I would add on the debt question, that there are (at least) three things you can do to limit/eliminate your debt profile:

1) Get into an in-state public medical school. (I was not able to do this! Hi 250k of loans!)

2) Apply for a military scholarship, which pays your tuition plus a stipend, but requires you serve the military for some extended period of time following your residency. You can also apply to USUHS, although weirdly I think the service commitment at USUHS is longer than it is than taking a military scholarship. I am not sure what the application-to-award ratio is with these, but I know many people here who are doing this.

3) Do the National Health Service Corps, which is like the military scholarships except your service commitment is in primary care in an underserved region of the country. If you KNOW you want to do this, do it. If you are not sure, you can sign up later if need be, or be like the rest of us and end up going to a residency program in some specialty in a big city with a million other specialty doctors, and then feel like part of the problem.

Or you can be like me, and just be completely unable to conceive of the size of your debt as a real amount of money, and assume that since it will all be electronically paid from a paycheck direct deposited into your account, you will basically just be moving numbers on a computer at it for 20 or 30 years until it goes away. (I realize this is poor fiscal strategy, but what can you do?)

The percentage of students who matriculate at a medical school but do not go on to become a doctor (for at least some period of time) is in the low single digits.

And yes I will echo gbx and say that the application year is just awful. You work way too hard in July/August knocking out secondaries, spend a ton of money sending those secondaries in, go through a fall that is usually long stretches of silence punctuated by interviews (which are fun, although also very expensive), followed by more silence, followed by decisions that frequently seem deflating and unfair. Honestly it was more stressful than the 1st year of medical school for me, and I was lucky enough to get in in January 2008 to start in August. I know people who were in waitlist hell until mid-July. I would not wish that on anyone. (The second year of medical school is much more difficult than your app year or 1st year. It is best you hear that now, and hear that often.)

Having said that, even with the debt and the stress and the workload and everything, going to med school is the best decision I ever made. But it is def not for everybody.

4) work for the Indian Health Service (which is what i'm planning on doing). the loan repayment isn't nearly as generous as the other options, but the commitment is shorter, and there are openings for specialists, not just primary care.

basically i think it works out to something like ~$20k/year IN ADDITION to your salary, which (at least according to the website) looks commensurate with nat'l averages. so, yr making say 150k/yr as a GP in Juneau AND getting 20k in loan payments on top. if you put yourself on an aggressive loan repayment scheme of yr own design, and hitch it to the IHS LRP, then paying it all off within 5-10 years seems v doable.

addendum: just did some hasty figuring and it looks like a 3-year IHS contract w/full loan benefits, coupled with full physician salary and a "normal" (2k/mo) loan payment schedule, and my in-state debt (ball-parking 160k) = PAID in four years

Daaaaaaang, that is not a bad gig at all.

i know, right? kinda amazed, tbh. plus while the rez can be a hard place or w/e, the prospect of doing doctoring in ALASKA or N. NEW MEXICO sounds prettttttttttttty nice for someone with my extracurricular interests.

haha i thought u meant new new mexico for a minute

i did, but it's still in beta