The new rolling ILX parenting thread, since the other one was getting unwieldy

Sunny, I'm not waiting to give him solids... he's been offered them since 6 months old! But he's just not massively interested yet.

Archel, take it you have tried later bedtime/earlier bedtime/shortening naps?

We have shortened naps but later bedtime is torture for everyone as she basically screams with exhaustion from about 7pm if not put to bed...

Alice has been a good sleeper for ages, but suddenly she is waking up ridiculously early, between 4.30 and 5.30am, and won't be settled. It's not like the waking in the night she used to do when she was disturbed but still sleepy, she's just wide awake and ready to be up. Unlike me. Any tips?

Could be she's just in a next *spurt* (or growth, or whatever you call it) or maybe teething. The only thing which helped me is realizing that I had to *gently* send out the message that night time is sleepy time and that I wouldn't pick her up. Picking up a baby (at night) is not really advisable. Pat'em, talk softly to'em but don't pick'em up. In due time they will learn that they jsut have to go to sleep.

It's all easier said than done, I know. I count myself lucky that Ophelia was so easy! I mean, the first couple of months she woke up more than your "average" baby but then she was so grebt. Even now, she sometimes wakes up, but usually just goes back to sleep on her own.

Hmm, probably not a problem this time of year but is there any light that could be waking her -- street lights etc? If so maybe blackout blinds might help?

Would she settle back to sleep if you took her into bed with you?

Otherwise all I can do is repeat the mantras, "It's just a phase" and "This too shall pass"...

Personally I wouldn't take her in bed with me, she has to learn to sleep alone. I know, I know, easier said than done... :-) Ophelia never wanted/wants to really sleep with us. She likes her own space.

We do a little cry-it-out when they start to push the wake-up times earlier than 6, and they seem to get it in a day or two. They don't sleep in our bed, though, so it's a bit less annoying if they fuss and cry a little.

does/did anyone co-sleep here? i cant see the advantages.

A woman on that annoying TV programme was breastfeeding without waking up. I guess that's an advantage.

From what I've read the BIGGEST advantage (apart from the emotional closeness value for some people) is not having to get up and walk around to breastfeed? The books say (I know, I know, "the books") that mothers tend to notice their babies' early fussiness and offer to nurse before a) the babies go to full-blown crying, and b) the mothers have to wake all the way up.

The Books also say things about temperature co-regulation, ie when mother & baby are in close contact, her body temperature will judge baby's up or down by a few degrees to keep him warm. Also that the sound & physical movement of mom's breathing can keep baby breathing as well? It's actually presented as an argument for lowering SIDS rates, I'd check the research though.

Aha! I have a book right here to mail to my sis so let me check...

There's reams of writing about how it's better for baby's danger reflexes, ie that it's unnatural for an infant creature to sleep unprotected, and that it's possible that mother and baby could both sleep more peacefully and not be awakened by random noises or anxiety if they're in close proximity. That seems like a plus.

Also, babies aren't self-stabilizing physiologically, ie when they get afraid & stressed, their heart rates, breathing, stress reflexes, brain chemistry, etc don't return to normal on their own (or not quickly enough to count). That means less oxygen to the brain and more stress hormones in the bloodstream, I think those things are probably a clear minus.

Esther in silly mode, Abby looking on in mild embarrassment:

http://www.appelstein.com/eafloor.jpg

dont guys get grossed out by breast milk all over the sheets? stinky not to mention ewwww! right?

actually our hospital made it very clear when we left NOT to co-sleep because it can lead to suffocation. i know most people ignore this. new parents have very selective hearing. i know because i am one, of course.

my biggest problems with co-sleeping are a) i like the bed to myself, b) i just got used to sharing it with my husband and up to three cats...the kid wont fit, c) we are paranoid about making ourselves beeps' entire world and that even branches down to things like sleeping independently, d) we dont want to squish her and e) doesnt it become habit for the baby and wouldn't it be impossible to get them into the crib when you're ready to do so? it seems like if you're doing it to calm the kid at night you might be making it a lot worse for both of you and cause the kid an undue amount of distress in the long run?

then again i dreaded the day we would stop swaddling for the same reason and she just kept on sleeping through the night like she had never been swaddled.

mike does esther have a gap in her teeth?? i love those!! they're beautiful kids.

All I'm saying is the US has like the lowest levels of co-sleeping in the world, and the highest levels of SIDS. The whole enough-room-in-bed and when-to-move-them-out is of course up to parental discretion.

PS: Historically the hysteria about smothering babies that sleep with you is based on people "overlaying" their children as a method of after-the-fact birth control in medieval times, when there was basically no other option for family planning allowed by the church and any kind of "purposeful" exposure or infanticide was punished. A little drunken stupor, a little "accidental" rolling over, et voila.

i dont know, smothering seems like a very real possibility to me. i dont know that i would call it hysteria either considering im the only person i know that seems to think this. ive never slept in the bed with beeps though. maybe there is some kind of subconscious reflex that keeps you from doing that.

There is a subconscious reflex, actually -- mothers and babies are EXTREMELY attuned to each other, says um well, every source I can find? The governmental agencies, of course, have to be very, very overcautious in their recommendations for infant sleeping arrangements b/c really the only instances of overlaying in the modern US are among people with fewer resources for, say, buying child-safe bedding. People who might be sharing a living space with others and therefore sleeping on a couch or similar are also at risk, since there are lots of cushions the baby could slide between/under. Cases in which the sleeping parent is affected by drugs or alcohol are also a huge component. But for most people, under average conditions, there's no more danger than there is for any other component of an infant's daily life.

Soft bedding is a clear "no", as are gaps between the mattress and the frame, and adult clothing with long ties that could get tangled or wrapped around things (decorative night-gown ties, I take it?).

There's pros and cons to co-sleeping. We tried with Ophelia but 1 she doesn't like it at all and 2 our bed is rather small (for more than two people) and 3 I am afraid of suffocation (which is a risk,albeit minimal). Also, I think from a few months onwards - about four months - they (midwives in our hospital) advise you to put the baby in a seperate room so they can learn to sleep on their own. This way the mommy (and baby) don't wake up that easily when the other fusses. From four months (or later, probably more six months) a baby doesn't need night feedings at all.

Suffocation is a risk especially if someone is in a deep sleep (mostly due to drinking/drugs). Otherwise it happens rarely. BUt I hate "rarely" as it means it happens. :-) So Laurel, despite every source you find, it does exist. It doesn't happen often, but it does.

SS, breasts don't leak that much. If they do, you can always wear pads (?). It happened at the hospital for me, waking up with a wet sheet, but after that there was minimal leeking (during the night that is).

Breastfeeding is ACE. I mean, after a few weeks of pain. :-) The night time feeding is great, very easy and quick, but then the mother is the only one who can do it and that is a factor why someone decide to do bottles. That way they can do *shifts*. :-)

Also suffocation can happen when the baby crawls downwards and under the blankets.

Well, any of us could get hit by a bus on the way home, too, but I'm still leaving work eventually.

I mean, duh, co-sleeping isn't for everyone any more than bloody marys are (full disclosure: I do not like bloody marys!)! But "the worst that could happen might possibly happen" is no reason to do or not do something -- there's a reason the other name for SIDS is "crib death", y'know?

Uh crib death rarely occurs in a crib.

Whatever, everyone is going to do what he or she thinks is best. But you have to know, sunny, that it's Laurel-bait when you say "I can't possibly imagine what the advantages would be to something that's been natural for human beings for a couple thousand years." I mean, what?

I co-slept with both my kids, and never rolled onto them once! Probably saved Alex's life when he was 10 months old and very ill with croup; he couldn't breathe, but we were exhaustedly sleeping (because we'd been up with him for so, so long). He kicked Austin awake, and off to the emergency room we went. Not typical, but what happened with him.

I think it's a personal preference thing, really. Not dangerous (as long as you're not drinking or taking tranquilizers or drugs before bed).

My kids liked it and it was easier to nurse them (didn't have to get up, so we all got more sleep). Eventually they were each transitioned to a separate bed in our room, then into their own room.

Thousand years of something doesn't necessarily mean it's right (for someone). We tried co-sleeping. (Hey they said sleeping on the tummy was great for so long, now it's a no no.) My husband was very much in favour of it, but I'm a terrible worrier. We tried it a few times and Ophelia just pushed us aside. hah. I can understand the advantages though. Honestly. Maybe we will with the second baby. But I worry so much and Ophelia didn't like it, so it was easily decided not to do it anymore.

I mean, duh, co-sleeping isn't for everyone any more than bloody marys are

I read somewhere that something like 75% of "SIDS" deaths are probably homicides, but that they are not investigated.

We sometimes lifted them and sometimes didn't. We've always played it by ear and attempted to judge their moods - sometimes starving, sometimes cranky, sometimes needing a wee pat on the back to get back to sleep, sometimes windy, sometimes just crying because they could. We've always avoided rules and formulas and it seems to have worked so far. We've had a few horrible nights along the way but the kids seem to have done ok out of it.

Photo time!
Megan, last month, on her birthday.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/1604623230_cb95909c7a.jpg

That baby is not real, she is way too cute.

mrs o and megan in the park:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2395/1604645778_864a1c6c38.jpg

Also suffocation can happen when the baby crawls downwards and under the blankets.

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

Mark
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/1604914968_6b7cc0150b.jpg

David
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/1603989169_3a6cbcddcc.jpg

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

Skeet shooting, duh.

Onimo do adorable grins come fitted with yr kids as standard?

Many thanks for all the congratulations and good wishes, as requested, Ethan:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/Coastaltown/Ethan006.jpg

I do love that photo. Easily the winner of the bunch.

:)

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

You're joking at my crap English? :-(

I think it was a reference to the creepy baby scene in Trainspotting.

Oh fuck, I remember that.

Oh, I missed this discusion about co-sleeping! But essentially I second everything Laurel says. Saved my sanity when H was younger, now he stays all night in his cot, no probs. V safe IF you follow the rules carefully. And Howie is the least clingy baby ever.

dont guys get grossed out by breast milk all over the sheets? stinky not to mention ewwww! right?

^I really, really hope this was a joke.

Sorry, I was tired this morning so my previous post came out sounding snippier than I intended. It's just that I'm sick and tired of the attitude whereby breastfeeding is seen as something 'gross', disgusting and somehow unnatural. See the horrible Claire Verity and even the supposedly 'moderate' Dreena Whatserface on that Bringing Up Baby programme, who were horrified at the idea of a woman breastfeeding in public. And Facebook's decision to remove images of women feeding their babies as 'obscene'. (I am not saying you hold these views, Sunny, so apologies if I bit your head off over nothing.)

Also, breastmilk on the bed is not confined to co-sleepers! We didn't co-sleep with Howie til his sleep went wonky at 3 months, but in the very early weeks when my supply was being established, I would always wake up in puddles of milk. There would be a little trail of milk drips from my side of the bed to the cot on the laminate floor every morning. Luckily my husband found this hilarious rather than gross.

I would certainly not find it "obscene", what a strange choice of words, but I am not in favour of breastfeeding in public at all. I think it's just a little... I'm not sure, I don't like seeing breasts in public, however they are used. I think inappropriate would be the word. And probably awkward. I never breastfeed in public, not even with a blanket over my breasts. I stayed at home to breastfeed.

How is it inappropriate? Do you think it is inappropriate to bottle-feed in public? Then why not feed as nature intended? It doesn't have to mean showing your nipples off to all and sundry, can be done with discretion and if people don't like it they are free to look away!

oh I don't check in often enough but I have to chime in on the co-sleeping discussion because we do it. Laurel already said just about everything I wanted to though, everything she says about safety etc is OTM. Definitely a personal preference for everyone's behalf--I know parents who did it with one kid and not another because the kids (shocka) were different personalities. I know people who happily had the kid in bed until they were (X), people who miserably had the kid in bed until they were (X), people who easily transitioned the kid out, people who had a hell of a time transitioning the kid out. You know your own family best and know what's going to make everyone happy.

For me and my family, we love it. It gives the kid and hubby a chance to cuddle when hubby works long hours and doesn't get the chance to hug him when he's awake, it makes nighttime nursing and getting through illness easy, and everyone sleeps. I never thought we would be cosleepers but I found out quickly it was the thing that worked. Lou was a heavy baby and I threw my back out too many times getting him into the crib
(nb I am also incredibly weak), and he has a sensitive gag reflex and would vomit if left to cry, so those two factors really sealed the deal. He does still wake up a bunch at night (to change position or sometimes to nurse a bit), and usually wakes me up too, but that is just because I am a light sleeper--I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me. Your sleep cycles kind of sync up so you go into light sleep at the same time anyway.

I think the most important thing is not how they sleep or where they sleep but that they are understood and loved by their parents. And I doubt any of the kids here have much to worry about on that count!

^^What Teeny said.

in the very early weeks when my supply was being established, I would always wake up in puddles of milk.

Me, too! I took to sleeping on towels. This didn't happen nearly as much with baby #2.

As for breastfeeding in public, I did it when I needed to; my kids were exclusively breastfed, but that was no reason to confine myself to the house for almost a year. I certainly attempted to be discreet, but one discretion is another person's... uh... not discretion. But if you don't feel comfortable nursing in public, there's no reason that you must, either!

Breastfeeding in public is inappropriate? Wtf? Fine if you don't like it (LOOK THE OTHER WAY, something you say often enough on ILE Nath) but it's the epitome of appropriate behaviour! My god!

Mark is SHOCKED!

I AM!!

Inappropriate may have been the wrong choice of word. I would def feel very awkward. But, hey, that's my personal opinion. I am entitled to have my own personal opinion, no? And, I def look the other way when someone does.

We did cosleeping with both our kids. E took to it very well, but A was never really comfortable. From about 6 months onward, she'd thrash and roll around and have trouble getting to sleep. Once we moved her into her own crib, she calmed down immediately. So it's not for everyone, but I'm convinced that cosleeping helps bonding and (ironically?) has enabled both our kids to feel secure and independent.

I'd also like to recommend the Miracle Blanket to all new parents out there. Naptime would have been much harder without it.