tipping

I got the impression that they reckon that tipping is something stupid tourists do.

If you go to somewhere casual to eat, semi-regularly, and one time you have really bitchy service, is it ok to 'retaliate' by leaving a small tip or none? Or just rise above it and pay for having the server make you feel like crap, just because you don't want even bitchier service next time?

just don't go back (for a while)

give a regular tip because unless u are richie rich eating at fancytown its an extra couple bucks and probably your server is just having a bad day and if she/he is always a bitch than she/he will eventually get fired

not necessarily, i remember hearing a "this american life" story a while ago where they tested this and found that the same waitresses got better tips when they were bitchy, i guess because people wanted to be liked or something.

in the situation of outright bitchy service i would probably leave a smaller tip than usual but would not leave none.

And really, it's a requirement by law in Canadian provinces that restaurant staff are all paid (a) minimum wage (um I think a couple have separate wages for servers/bartenders but it's not much less than normal minimum wage). Yes, in some cases that isn't very good, but it's pretty much on par with the rest of the service/retail sector... it's not like in the US where there's a massive gap between state minimum wage and the wages servers get... yet people still follow the same tipping custom... which might be even more frustrating because it seems so unnecessary compared to in the US

^^

Seriously, I completely understand the reasons why one should leave a standard 15-20% tip in the US. Since coming back to Canada, though, it seems odd to me that I should pay the same tip during an economic crisis in a province where waiters and waitresses make these wages and have free health care. (The cost of living outside Toronto is not that much higher that this seems justified to me.) I'm willing to pay all the taxes in the world but I don't understand why we need to tip so highly for average or below-average service. All this said, I tip generously and will continue to do so until the social norms change.

(While the cost of living is not that much higher, the cost of alcohol certainly is, which exacerbates the frustration.)

not to stoke old fires but why is british tip 10% and american tip closer to 20?

I didn't even know you tip at all in the UK, TBH. What is a server's wage in the UK?

you'll get about £5 an hour at the very least, often more, sometimes quite a lot more if it's a posh joint

and we are not the sort of disgusting savages who don't tip. except we don't tip barmen or coffee vendors, that's dumb

;)

Been stuff in the news lately that even if you do tip in the UK it probably won't go to the server anyway, they're trying to change the law to stop that tho.

Yeah, that should answer your question. After the exchange rate (and health insurance), consider the difference: http://www.humanresourceblog.com/2009/03/24/server-minimum-wage-in-new-york-for-2009/

Barmen = liquor servers?

xpost

yeah, people who hand out drinks, behind a bar :P

also wow that's a low minimum wage

Yes, in the most expensive city in the country. Wake up, this is the basis of every ILX tipping argument EVER.

If the employee does not earn enough tips to average $7.15 per hour, the employer must pay the difference.

Would be shocked if any employer actually paid the difference, btw. Can anyone confirm/deny?

British system is fairer IMO, and besides you often get Brits who give 20% anyway for the hell of it.

give a regular tip because unless u are richie rich eating at fancytown its an extra couple bucks and probably your server is just having a bad day and if she/he is always a bitch than she/he will eventually get fired

so what are tips for? I thought they were a way of rewarding good service.

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Oh dear, have I just triggered the recurring ILX tipping war?

theyre a stupid way of making sure that servers get paid at least a minimum wage

10% in the UK is fair enough I think (more for great service), as eating out can be a lot more expensive. I never used to tip in the jar at the counter when getting a coffee or whatever though, only table service. How expected is this in the US?

Here in the US, eating out is generally a fair bit cheaper so 15-20% doesn't work out so expensive. Also the service is generally a lot better - people give you glasses of water without having to ask! They bring the bill quickly! That said, in the UK I've never experienced bitchy service - if it's not up to scratch it's usually just incompetence or gormlessness....

i don't tip for coffee and you shouldn't. if i ordered a fancy coffee drink or sandwich maybe.

Also I've read a few accounts of (American) servers who just assume Brits won't tip. So I'm still feeling a bit like I need to tip on the higher end just to over-compensate. But then if you get crappy service it rankles a bit, either pay through the nose or reinforce their 'tight Brits' assumptions!

Britishes were never unreasonable about service/tipping. Germans and the French, OTOH, fucking sucked.

Also, civil servants.

Right on.

In the USA, do you reckon the per centage you have to tip has gone up over the years? I have the impression that in days of yore it was c. 10%, but it has now crept up to c. 20%.

Yes, it has gone up from 10% for good/15% great to 15%/20%, just in the last couple of decades. I'm guessing this has to do with the preponderance of chain restaurants paying a shitty wage but not having a high volume for servers to depend on (and forcing servers to tip out other employees to cut labor costs as well).

I have some 70s-tastic Berlitz guide to deciphering menus round the world which also mentions US and UK differences and tipping etiquette worldwide and it says US tips 10-15%, so I thought "oh that is like Britisherland 10%-and-round-up, no problem", but subsequent years of ILXing have made me realise I was a v. mean tipper when in the States

sorry Californian wait staff, April/May 1999 :(

in the situation of outright bitchy service i would probably leave a smaller tip than usual but would not leave none

boggling my mind a little

i just want to pop in and say that i now make it regular practice to tip extra big on the first drink, for good luck

wait what, you americans tip bar staff?!!1!?

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― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 17:57 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i just want to pop in and say that i now make it regular practice to tip extra big on the first drink, for good luck

― you have to forgive me (surm), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:19 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

$2 on the first beer always!

wait what, you americans tip bar staff?!!1!?

― free the charmless but occasionally brilliant Dom Passantino (history mayne), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:02 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is this a joke??

What about soft drinks? Serious cos I am trying to cut down my alcohol intake..

if yr bartender is charging you for a soda you should go to a different bar

If you're not drinking booze at all, a bartender should charge you for a soda. Plus, at some bars, they get that money.

in the situation of outright bitchy service i would probably leave a smaller tip than usual but would not leave none

boggling my mind a little

In the states, leaving no tip at all is basically taking money from the server. If a clerk at the grocery store is rude, should you be able to take a dollar or two from their wallet?

hmm good idea

In the states, leaving no tip at all is basically taking money from the server. If a clerk at the grocery store is rude, should you be able to take a dollar or two from their wallet?

― smashing aspirant (milo z), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i work in the service industry, and it's really not that hard to not be a bitch. if i treated people like shit, even once, i wouldn't expect to get tipped.

otm

Depends on your definition of bitchy. Some people think it's bitchy if the bread takes a little while to get to the table.

If the server yells at me or throws a drink in my face, sure, no tip. But anything short of having the meal completely and utterly ruined, you still have to tip.

mhmm, i don't think i've ever not tipped at a restaurant.

say what you want but In the states, leaving no tip at all is basically taking money from the server is mind-boggling

well, this idea necessitates an implicit understanding of the industry payscale on behalf of the customer, which isn't always the case, obviously

PS it's a slow workday today

some people are embarrassingly bitchy about food service; i am not one of them. i don't recall ever failing to tip on food. but i certainly reserve the right to not tip if the server is an asshole.

It's the way they figure out how much to tax those tips (yes, they have to be declared) that makes the proposition of 'stealing from the server' accurate. In the US, servers are responsible for declaring their table takings - their employer is then required to pass that on to the tax man, and as the figure they estimate as the server's taxable income is 10 per cent of the house's takings.

It's not just taxes - everyone lies about their tipped income, anyway - it's that at your average restaurant, the server is tipping out the hostesses and busboys on gross sales and the service bar on liquor sales. This accounts for 2-5% of their tips for the evening, and cannot be avoided.

So even aside from taking up time and a table, and whatever they might pay in taxes, they're paying out a percentage of your meal's cost for the privilege of waiting on you.

Short of having a meal completely ruined (in which case it should be comped anyway), it's never acceptable to not tip on a meal.

my last waiting job i flirted w/ middleaged women and got crazy tips, i wld b a good gigolo i think

I'm surprised more places don't include a gratuity on the bill, in that case (I mean, if it's so definitely expected that you tip a certain amount, and people's accounts depend on it). They often do if it's a party of 6 or more, but occasionally I've seen it (in the US) for smaller parties. Would this be considered too cheeky by the public? I didn't mind when I saw it on the bill, as it was on the conservative side, and you can always leave extra cash on the table if you want.

I think in the UK (correct me if this seems wrong) a tip is seen more as an optional extra which is impolite not to do.

TBH I hate the whole thing, I'm one of those people who likes to know what a thing costs and just pay it, rather than have the tip I leave be considered as some kind of judgment of performance by me, the mighty customer.