goodfellas

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I know that - my problem is with people who insist that it's not OK to not like it - I'm not trying to convince anyone else to not like it, just justifying why I don't like it, because so often my opinion of GF and TD etcetera is met with such incredulity that I've had to explain exactly why countless bloomin' times.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:40 (nineteen years ago) link

And, you know, it's always just as valid to not like something as it is to like it, as long as you've made an effort to engage and understand why other people do like it.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think those people really exist, though: I'm sure rockists really *do* like Paul Weller on a gut level, same as I like 'Goodfellas' that way. The problem is when you write off, say 'Jaws' for being popcorn bullshit or whatever: *that* would be rockism. It's okay not to like it, just, you know, totally, irreversibly wrong-headed ( I kid, I kid ).

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:42 (nineteen years ago) link

that isn't justification; it's dismissal.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm putting forth reasons for my dismissal, RJG, ergo justification.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, Henry, it's not about liking Weller on a gut level or dismissing Jaws as popcorn bullshit - it's about refusing to accept that some people don't like Weller.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:48 (nineteen years ago) link

that's true. people just get very attached to their favourite things. it's like people who don't like red wine or sex or something, it's like 'wtf?'.

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:51 (nineteen years ago) link

your "reasons" don't seem to be about the movie.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:53 (nineteen years ago) link

wtf is Goodfellas is just such a thoughtless, hollow, unappealing film though. From the way the camera moves and shots are composed to the way the characters interract with each other, everything is about appearance and glamourisation, and glamourisation of really nasty, base, horrible things. And they're neither nasty, base and hollow in a compelling, rubbernecking way, or in a thrilling, exciting way, it's just deadening and unpleasant and empty then?

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:53 (nineteen years ago) link

thoughtless, hollow, unappealing

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:54 (nineteen years ago) link

So "I don't like the film because of my reaction to the film, which is one of dislike because of X, Y and Z" is not sufficient then?

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:56 (nineteen years ago) link

it's not that you didn't give reasons, but it's like 'how so? it isn't any of those things!' i can't be rational about this, helas. also i am tired and emotional today.

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:57 (nineteen years ago) link

X, Y and Z?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 09:58 (nineteen years ago) link

OK. I feel no empathy for any of the characters, I feel like an utterly disenfranchised observer at all times, neither sickened nor wowed by events. This goes for all Scorsese films I have seen - not one character in one of his films has appealed to me as a human. I also find the tone of them too serious and self-important - say TD is about the fall of man in urban environment, well so is Fightclub but FC is funny and has visuals which I find much more appealing, plus a degree of self-reference which I always welcome. I don't find the way Scorsese frames shots or moves a camera striking or dazzling (and I don't mean being literally dazzled by light or speed, I mean in a "wow, that was an amazing shot" way) at all, which seems to be something a lot of other people like about them. Plus impressions of Joe Pesci are always >>>>>> Joe Pesci himself.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Also I came to GF after I'd fallen for The Godfather, which seems to deal with many of the same ideas, but does so on both a bigger and more well observed scale - it's about family, it's not a gangster movie, it's a fucking great big family romance (not in the Freudian sense, obv.).

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I do not like Goodfellas, but 80's movies that culminate in basically every other cast member chasing the protagonist throught the streets are the BEST so I think I'm with Alex on this one.

(Goodfellas, come on, it doesn't say "fuck you" to the old guard, it is itself the last of the truly clichéd self-satirizing stupid old mob movies unless you count Casino except Casino is great. Fuck it, I just hate most trad-mob movies I guess).

on review: Nick OTM esp. re: Pesci.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Just the whole first wave of New Hollywood was like ugh.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:09 (nineteen years ago) link

I liked you.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link

wait a minute wtf does that mean it's 1990, wrong thread or something good night.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link

(w/r/t my last post not yr very sad one rjg)

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Look, this thread is all wrong. This is not the ILE I know. You people are supposed to adore, like, Casino and Heat and stuff! Not fucking Goodfellas! It's like saying your favorite Tarantino film is Pulp Fiction nOOOOOOO.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I luv Heat.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh shit! you know what does Goodfellas better than Goodfellas does? The Sandlot, and THE WONDER YEARS. FUCK YOOUOUUUUUU

(I love heat too)

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:14 (nineteen years ago) link

so, this is how the new meaning of "alternative" came about.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh for God's sake, can't you all be big enough to say 'I was wrong'? Goodfellas MICTURATES on your fucking 'Heat'.

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Heat rocks hard.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 19 August 2004 10:20 (nineteen years ago) link

casino kinda falls apart in the last act don't you find

I would really like someone to point me towards any of these films where that ISN'T the case. I mean any story about mobsters spanning multiple decades is going to be shit at the end, there is nothing climactic about watching some wiseguy get old, lose his edge and get thrown in the clink / murdered by his own stooges / enter the witness protection program. This is why Scarface is the best one, it goes out on a high note, you don't have to sit through a bunch of Tony and Manolo's midlife anecdotes or a succession of pointless relationships with mousy gold-digging bitches.

I think I see what Nick is saying about Goodfellas, and that goes for a lot of other similar movies with me as well. At the end of the day it's still a story about an asshole and his asshole friends, I mean Ray Liotta as Henry Hill has to be one of the least compelling characters I've ever seen, the fucking rat should get beaten to death.

DeNiro and Pacino are great because they can play these asshole characters and make them incredibly compelling, Pesci less so but still about a thousand times better than Ray fucking Liotta. I guess since Henry Hill is himself a pathetic excuse for a human being it's appropriate to cast the most uncharismatic man this side of the Baldwin brothers to play him but that does not make it any more enjoyable. Then again if you are watching Goodfellas for Ray Liotta you need your head examined.

What I've learned from this thread: Gangster movies need more 80s music. Did you know Brian DePalma directed the video for "Dancing In The Dark?"

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I haven't seen After Hours but is it anything like the new Streets album?

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

And Good Lord, fuck After Hours at the same time. Is that all there is? He goes to work covered in paint, huzzah for metaphors.

That's all you took from the film? You're a bozo.

"Goodfellas" is a great film, as I've said, but it's just yet another mob movie. Do we really need more of those?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:22 (nineteen years ago) link

If they're good, yes.

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:26 (nineteen years ago) link

OK there are exactly 2 movies that Ray Liotta is good in, and this is definitely one of them, that's completely mentalist.

Also Heat is a Michael Mann film, why are we talking about Heat at all, briefly?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Apparently it's 'too obvious' to prefer to 'Goodfellas' to 'Heat' or the CLEARLY INFERIOR 'Casino'...

― ENRG (Enrique), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:33 (nineteen years ago) link

OK the only problem with the compellingness of the acting in Goodfellas from my point of view is that I sometimes find it hard to believe it's actually acting and not just Liotta, DeNiro, Pesci and Sorvino calling each other the wrong names for 3 hours.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Operation Dumbo Drop?

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Also GF is bad because it's THREE HOURS LONG and the only way a film can justify that is if it's got dragons and/or werewolves in it.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Dude, no, Field of Dreams. His portrayal of Joe Jackson is fucking incredible. I mean, the entire character bears absolutely no resemblance to Joe Jackson whatsoever, it's amazing. "Let's take this character of an illiterate, sort of slow-witted, very nice Southerner and have him played by...RAY LIOTTA!!!!!!"

xpost or lots of blood and drugs, see also Scarface!

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Although I haven't seen Operation Dumbo Drop, he could be excellent in it.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha, I've never watched Scarface all the way through cos "it's just more gangster shit" innit!

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link

A Bronx Tale

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Are there dragons?

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link

See, Reign Of Fire could have been SO DAMN GOOD and it just fuXXored it all up.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought Ray Liotta was Hollywood Speak for "Straight To Video".

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:51 (nineteen years ago) link

A Bronx Tale has no dragons but it does have Chazz Palminteri.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Operation Dumbo Drop has been added to your Rental Queue.
This movie is available now.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Tom you should play that movie as the back drop when you get married.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Please, we already decided on Dune.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I love Casino. It's one of those movies that a director couldn't have done first and had deemed a classic, but I already like the director's (and actors') "thing" so much that I'm happy to watch it all day. See also: Jackie Brown, although I do think it's Tarantino's best film in a lot of other ways.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:58 (nineteen years ago) link

WAIT--Nick, does Dune meet your specifications? It doesn't have dragons but it has giant worms which strike me as being similiar in a fashion, to dragons. Is this an ok 3hr long movie?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i havn't been able to enjoy goodfellas since seeing blow.

― kephm, Thursday, 19 August 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

These mob movies need more Frank Vincent, Frank Sivero and Tony Sirico.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 19 August 2004 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

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