quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a rolling new york times thread

i remember some discussion of that article when it came out, either on ilx or elsewhere. anyway, i'm sure there's truth to what he's saying, but he's also tarring an awful lot of other people with his own brush. i know ivy league grads who are perfectly comfortable talking to plumbers or waitresses or whatever. but if his central point is that elite institutions help foster elitism, well NO KIDDING.

but i mean, my dad went to stanford and i guarantee you he'd rather talk to a plumber than another standford grad.

enh there are probably like a dozen things wrong with that essay including as tipsy points out lots of ivey grads can talk to plumbers but it kinda feels generally true 2 me like:

Because students from elite schools expect success, and expect it now. They have, by definition, never experienced anything else, and their sense of self has been built around their ability to succeed.

the school i went to for undergrad wasnt an ivey but its probably comparable and this was and kinda is still a big problem for me and a lot of the things he says abt the interior life of a student at yale rung v true to my xp

I think the article doesn't spend enough time talking about the social background of the kids at these schools...I mean my gf went to Columbia but grew up in a middle class FL suburb. most of her classmates were prep school kids + rich NYers who went to the same high schools - even if they overlap, there is a difference between the academic 'elite' and the social 'elite'.

these people would have trouble talking to plumbers not because they took too many great college classes, but because they honestly think they're better than plumbers (which can be a side-effect of going to some of these schools, but which a lot of these people would have thought regardless.)

i have trouble talking to plumbers because i am mute

I have trouble talking to plumbers because it means I'm about to have to write a big check.

i have trouble talking to plumbers because i am from the future where all of our plumbers are robots

I have trouble talking to plumbers because I am an elitist prick.

Most people who have trouble talking to plumbers really only have trouble talking about plumbing.

Best friend was raised by nonconformists and now finds herself in the middle of an entitled upper middle class life, having to manage relationships with people who are working for her in the home. The reason she has difficulty is because she can't make up her mind to treat them like friends or like employees; when she was at work she did not have problems with how things ran.

http://herobuilders.com/images/1%20Joe%20The%20Plumber%20web%20(1).jpg

won't anyone talk to me?
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/10/08-15/joe-the-plumber.jpg

we are all plumbers now, in obama's america

It was less Timesy for the whining about Ivy elitism than for his general despicableness. OMG I never realized that there are intelligent people outside of my immediate social class!

at least five of my horrible ivy league doucher classmates now work as builders/firemen/poorly paid guides

fwiw

I smell a style article in that

haha one of the smartest ppl i went to school w/is a shipbuilder now

It was less Timesy for the whining about Ivy elitism than for his general despicableness. OMG I never realized that there are intelligent people outside of my immediate social class!

ugh

I smell a style article in that

― Tracer Hand, Monday, January 25, 2010 2:45 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you are not wrong

that guy was my professor (for a lecture class) and was kind of a personal hero to me and my friends! I think he's largely on our side though, but the criticisms of him are pretty warranted. last I heard he wasn't doing so well - his contract ended and no other schools would hire him, probably because he didn't give in to the pressure to publish and instead tried to use his position as a pulpit to teach and nurture from. iatee otm though; for most of these kids an ivy/first tier college is just another stop on the gravy train express.

the other reason why ivy kids can't talk to normal people is because most of them are borderline aspies who were like that well before they ever went to college!

also I find his final message, that it's okay not to be successful by the traditional metrics of the term, to be very reassuring in a jonathan pryce-at-the-end-of-brazil kind of way

They get their education wholesale, from an indifferent bureaucracy; it’s not handed to them in individually wrapped packages by smiling clerks.

ohhhhhhh brother plz

the other reason why ivy kids can't talk to normal people is because most of them are borderline aspies who were like that well before they ever went to college!

i think this has a kernel of truth, in some disciplines more than others. but i also think it has something to do with age. most people get a lot better about it as they get older and just wind up becoming more comfortable with talking to more people in life. it's just kind of a life skill combining "be friendly and courteous" with "pay attention to what's going on around you."

also, i am definitely dropping out of grad school if i ever get to a point where i am dividing the world into "ivy leaguers" and "normal people."

“So are you saying that we’re all just, like, really excellent sheep?”

is this where niles crane excitedly flusters and announces that we may just have experienced a breakthrough, a necessary epiphany?

the other reason why ivy kids can't talk to normal people is because most of them are borderline aspies who were like that well before they ever went to college!

hellllo, gabbneb!!!

If they make it illegal to serve egg-white drinks, that would be Hurricane Katrina for us

i feel cheated that the author abandons his faux noir paperback tone somewhere in the third paragraph

Haha. Okay I made it to the end, and I have to say this part seems valid? I mean hell I just had some pretty shit-poor Hollandaise sauce a couple of weeks ago (I should have known better but I was jonesing for Benedict) and no one warned me that it contained raw eggs, and in that case it probably should have come in 22-pt type.

Bartenders are also asking why the city was concerned about bars and not restaurants, where raw-egg staples include hollandaise sauce, mayonnaise, Caesar salad and ice cream. “They use raw eggs in béarnaise sauce and steak tartare,” Ms. Saunders said. “Is it that they think chefs are O.K., but bartenders don’t know what they’re doing?”

Baaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrfffffffffff

(at the comparison, not at drinks made w/ egg whites, which are a-ok with me.)

Eggs aren't raw in a hollandaise, just not cooked very much.

tbf i think most people will realize that steak tartare contains raw egg given that it is served with a big honking raw egg right in the middle of it

that makes me wonder how long it will be before we see an article about ppl willfully depriving themselves of one of their senses

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/nyregion/09bigcity.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?em

this isn't specifically about the ruling class but...

As for a man’s cheating, “that’s a thing that girls let slide, because you have to,” said Emily Kennard, a junior at North Carolina. “If you don’t let it slide, you don’t have a boyfriend.”

Since that is not her style, Ms. Deray said, she has still not had a long-term relationship in college. As a fashion merchandising major, she said, she can only hope the odds improve when she graduates and moves to New York.

Good luck with that!

Sidenote: since when is 55% some kind of overwhelming majority that makes it impossible to ever date someone? It's barely above even, for pete's sake.

I'm glad that Emily Kennard has her priorities in order.

So let's see... per the NYT, lesbians are non-existent and all women go to college for the MRS. Got it.

As for a man’s cheating, “that’s a thing that girls let slide, because you have to,” said Emily Kennard, a junior at North Carolina. “If you don’t let it slide, you don’t have a boyfriend.”

haven't read the article, but this stands out for me cuz: recent conversations with a younger friend of mine (who's now crashing at my house due to ~lady troubles~) would anecdotally suggest that casual infidelity is, like, a thing. at least in some social circles? he doesn't condone it (nor is it why he's on my couch), but he's like "yeah, loads of my friends have drunkenly cheated on their SOs but, aside from a few blowouts, most of them are still together"

i'm no prude, and if ppl are into polyamory or w/e that's cool, but i'm genuinely sorta surprised at this? btw the cheating was 50/50, w/r/t the gender of the cheater.

Gay ppl do not exist outside of stories exclusively about gay ppl, get with the program.

xp

interviewing college kids about relationships always makes for a+++++++++ hilarious articles

lol @ a "fashion merchandising major" complaining abt not meeting a lot of guys @ college

he doesn't condone it (nor is it why he's on my couch), but he's like "yeah, loads of my friends have drunkenly cheated on their SOs but, aside from a few blowouts, most of them are still together"

this is roughly true of my social circle i think? at least the idea that one-off cheating isnt enuff to break-up a relationship

I like how not one girl they photographed matches their lead - "they slip on tight-fitting tops, hair sculpted, makeup just so."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2010/02/07/CAMPUS0207/33149833.JPG

"allll mine"

Jayne Dallas, a senior studying advertising who was seated across the table, grumbled that the population of male undergraduates was even smaller when you looked at it as a dating pool. “Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,” she said.

Perhaps the girls should lower their standards or try dating someone who's not a student?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2010/02/07/CAMPUS0207/33091918.JPG

why can't these girls find dates????

it's esp awkward cuz at least one of these known (and repeat offender) cheats routinely gets a little too frisky w/me at parties, but her boyfriend just kinda keeps his distance, looking glum. siren.gif

(btw frisky here just means like obv drunk and flirty, no funny business)

If any of these girls is considering spending more time with Mr. Expos Cap & Kerchief here, they deserve everything they get.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/02/07/fashion/07campusspan-1/07campusspan-1-articleLarge.jpg

college dudes only dating chicks w/ real majors

xp - It's nice that Vice Magazine finally made it to North Carolina.

He's asking them if they've ever seen this hilarious thing called Dos and Don'ts.

would anecdotally suggest that casual infidelity is, like, a thing. at least in some social circles?

I don't think this is "a thing" as in a trend that might, say, make it's way to the fashion and style section of the NYT so much as just how some people act sometimes.

Gay ppl do not exist outside of stories exclusively about gay ppl, get with the program.

We'd better take this discussion to the gay thread.