The new rolling ILX parenting thread, since the other one was getting unwieldy

We sometimes lifted them and sometimes didn't. We've always played it by ear and attempted to judge their moods - sometimes starving, sometimes cranky, sometimes needing a wee pat on the back to get back to sleep, sometimes windy, sometimes just crying because they could. We've always avoided rules and formulas and it seems to have worked so far. We've had a few horrible nights along the way but the kids seem to have done ok out of it.

Photo time!
Megan, last month, on her birthday.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/1604623230_cb95909c7a.jpg

That baby is not real, she is way too cute.

mrs o and megan in the park:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2395/1604645778_864a1c6c38.jpg

Also suffocation can happen when the baby crawls downwards and under the blankets.

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

Mark
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/1604914968_6b7cc0150b.jpg

David
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/1603989169_3a6cbcddcc.jpg

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

Skeet shooting, duh.

Onimo do adorable grins come fitted with yr kids as standard?

Many thanks for all the congratulations and good wishes, as requested, Ethan:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/Coastaltown/Ethan006.jpg

I do love that photo. Easily the winner of the bunch.

:)

What about when they start crawling across the ceiling while you're trying to dry out?

You're joking at my crap English? :-(

I think it was a reference to the creepy baby scene in Trainspotting.

Oh fuck, I remember that.

Oh, I missed this discusion about co-sleeping! But essentially I second everything Laurel says. Saved my sanity when H was younger, now he stays all night in his cot, no probs. V safe IF you follow the rules carefully. And Howie is the least clingy baby ever.

dont guys get grossed out by breast milk all over the sheets? stinky not to mention ewwww! right?

^I really, really hope this was a joke.

Sorry, I was tired this morning so my previous post came out sounding snippier than I intended. It's just that I'm sick and tired of the attitude whereby breastfeeding is seen as something 'gross', disgusting and somehow unnatural. See the horrible Claire Verity and even the supposedly 'moderate' Dreena Whatserface on that Bringing Up Baby programme, who were horrified at the idea of a woman breastfeeding in public. And Facebook's decision to remove images of women feeding their babies as 'obscene'. (I am not saying you hold these views, Sunny, so apologies if I bit your head off over nothing.)

Also, breastmilk on the bed is not confined to co-sleepers! We didn't co-sleep with Howie til his sleep went wonky at 3 months, but in the very early weeks when my supply was being established, I would always wake up in puddles of milk. There would be a little trail of milk drips from my side of the bed to the cot on the laminate floor every morning. Luckily my husband found this hilarious rather than gross.

I would certainly not find it "obscene", what a strange choice of words, but I am not in favour of breastfeeding in public at all. I think it's just a little... I'm not sure, I don't like seeing breasts in public, however they are used. I think inappropriate would be the word. And probably awkward. I never breastfeed in public, not even with a blanket over my breasts. I stayed at home to breastfeed.

How is it inappropriate? Do you think it is inappropriate to bottle-feed in public? Then why not feed as nature intended? It doesn't have to mean showing your nipples off to all and sundry, can be done with discretion and if people don't like it they are free to look away!

oh I don't check in often enough but I have to chime in on the co-sleeping discussion because we do it. Laurel already said just about everything I wanted to though, everything she says about safety etc is OTM. Definitely a personal preference for everyone's behalf--I know parents who did it with one kid and not another because the kids (shocka) were different personalities. I know people who happily had the kid in bed until they were (X), people who miserably had the kid in bed until they were (X), people who easily transitioned the kid out, people who had a hell of a time transitioning the kid out. You know your own family best and know what's going to make everyone happy.

For me and my family, we love it. It gives the kid and hubby a chance to cuddle when hubby works long hours and doesn't get the chance to hug him when he's awake, it makes nighttime nursing and getting through illness easy, and everyone sleeps. I never thought we would be cosleepers but I found out quickly it was the thing that worked. Lou was a heavy baby and I threw my back out too many times getting him into the crib
(nb I am also incredibly weak), and he has a sensitive gag reflex and would vomit if left to cry, so those two factors really sealed the deal. He does still wake up a bunch at night (to change position or sometimes to nurse a bit), and usually wakes me up too, but that is just because I am a light sleeper--I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me. Your sleep cycles kind of sync up so you go into light sleep at the same time anyway.

I think the most important thing is not how they sleep or where they sleep but that they are understood and loved by their parents. And I doubt any of the kids here have much to worry about on that count!

^^What Teeny said.

in the very early weeks when my supply was being established, I would always wake up in puddles of milk.

Me, too! I took to sleeping on towels. This didn't happen nearly as much with baby #2.

As for breastfeeding in public, I did it when I needed to; my kids were exclusively breastfed, but that was no reason to confine myself to the house for almost a year. I certainly attempted to be discreet, but one discretion is another person's... uh... not discretion. But if you don't feel comfortable nursing in public, there's no reason that you must, either!

Breastfeeding in public is inappropriate? Wtf? Fine if you don't like it (LOOK THE OTHER WAY, something you say often enough on ILE Nath) but it's the epitome of appropriate behaviour! My god!

Mark is SHOCKED!

I AM!!

Inappropriate may have been the wrong choice of word. I would def feel very awkward. But, hey, that's my personal opinion. I am entitled to have my own personal opinion, no? And, I def look the other way when someone does.

We did cosleeping with both our kids. E took to it very well, but A was never really comfortable. From about 6 months onward, she'd thrash and roll around and have trouble getting to sleep. Once we moved her into her own crib, she calmed down immediately. So it's not for everyone, but I'm convinced that cosleeping helps bonding and (ironically?) has enabled both our kids to feel secure and independent.

I'd also like to recommend the Miracle Blanket to all new parents out there. Naptime would have been much harder without it.

Yup, that's a gap between E's teeth. Just like her dad and maternal grandmother. A's got the same thing.

I hate my gaps :(

Will Ava always be this gappy? I was kinda hoping they'd sort of crowd together a bit.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1186/1387119763_34d750c17c.jpg

They will, remember she's got a bigger second set to come in in a few years.

Gappy while young > crammed together and overlapping.

Yeah, of course - the adult teeth are wider, aren't they? It's thanks to Ava's gap that Lulu's bite-scar is so noticeable - it's the raised bit in the middle that catches the eye. Not literally.

They say a gap is a sign of future (financial) riches!

Then I better get a high-paying job after I graduate law school (or wait for my daughters to take care of me in my old age, I guess).

yeah. i love the gap!

a zillion xposts to laurel: i wasnt trying to bait anyone. sometimes the reasoning behind what people do escapes me. it was a genuine question. i always want to know what other parents are doing and why they do it. i am like nath though in that if theres even a small risk and its easily avoidable, then ill probably avoid it. its good to hear there is a subsconscious instinct not to squish the kid though. beeps wont even nap on a bed with me let alone co-sleep but maybe the next kid will be all about it.

xxposts to everyone talking about nursing (esp. meg): let me say right now that i did not and do not breastfeed. its a personal choice and probably the only selfish choice ive made since beeps came along (although i do believe she is no worse off for bottle feeding). it certainly doesnt gross me out when other women breastfeed but the idea of me doing it i just cant stand. if that makes any sense? that kind of sounds condescending like "its good enough for all of you but not me!" but thats definitely not it. its more like im fine with watching other people eat zucchini but the thought of me eating it makes me shudder. im making no sense. anyway, meg, the whole stinky eww thing came from conversations ive had with my best friend who had her baby a few months before i had beeps. she was always saying how she, her clothes, the bed and well, everything, reeked from breastmilk. actually, her baby daddy didn't care at all, i dont think. but, you know, there is a whole world of stinkiness and ickiness brought into your life with kids, stinky/ickky that would have horrified you before kids, that you just don't care about now. so it was half joke, half curiosity, half instant superficial reaction (which im often prone to, if you hadn't noticed). 3 halves.

also, matt, ethan is beautiful.

SS, that is totally fair enough. I guess you just unintentionally hit a raw nerve when I was feeling cranky this morning.

And Nath, of course you are entitled to your opinion, and everyone is entitled to feed their baby however they choose :)

My issue is when the way I choose to feed my baby -- in the most natural and, as Mark C said, appropriate way that a human possibly can -- is limited by people who don't get that breastfeeding in public is not being exhibitionist, or sexual, or anything other than just a mum feeding her baby. Sadly in our country there are too many women who are put off by the culture of unacceptability around feeding in public. I don't feed in public very often and have never been asked to leave a cafe or restaurant, but it has been suggested to me that I feed him in a cafe toilet. Would you like to eat your lunch in a toilet?

having a place to do it was one of the reasons i chose not to do it. i actually went back and forth about it for a long time while i was pregnant to the point where i bought all of the equipment just in case. what sealed then deal to not do it was that i knew beeps was going into daycare at 6 weeks and it seemed too difficult to ween her that quickly or go through the stress of trying to produce enough milk for the the 8 hours a day she would be there. it was a decision i didn't make until the nurse asked me at the hospital when i was in labor though. i was pretty torn about it even though i really didnt want to do it.

i think what nath means (and if shes not giving birth as we speak she can correct me) is that it is a really intimate thing which makes it weird to see in public so it feels awkward. i look the other way but mostly because i dont want to seem like a freak staring at someone nursing.

also meg, before howie started crawling did he get in the crawling position and rock back and forth a lot? beeps is doing that now but she doesnt seem to get the whole arm leg coordination bit.

but the idea of me doing it i just cant stand. if that makes any sense?

I think this makes total sense; I think it would be hard to overcome that, even if you wanted to, Sunny.

I don't know why your friend's milk is causing everything to stink, though; unless she isn't washing things - or possibly she herself is ill? Any kind of milk left sitting will start to smell sour after a while, but breast milk really doesn't have much of a scent - If I'm Recalling Correctly (it's been a few years!).

Yep, he did that a lot and seemed to be able to do the front or back of him but not both at once. Now he still can't lift his tummy off the floor but kind of slithers across the floor.

Funnily enough, before H was born I bought all the equipment for bottle-feeding, just in case there was some reason I couldn't breastfeed! We shoulda swapped...

it is a really intimate thing which makes it weird to see in public so it feels awkward

I think part of this comes from culturally not seeing it very often - but even after nursing two kids, I can still feel awkward about seeing it myself. Oddly, after a few weeks, I never felt awkward about nursing in public myself - it kind of went from feeling intimate to being entirely mundane.

To be honest, so many random strangers had their hands up my fanny during Howie's birth, breastfeeding in front of other people seemed like no problem! I think the fact that I had seen a lot of my friends/family feed in front of me helped, too -- as Sara says, the more you see it, the less of a big deal it becomes.

Yes, it is a very intimate experience. I also feel extremely self-conscious about breastfeeding (and my breasts, esp when they were so huge hah!) when others are watching. I still remember my MIL getting up and having a look. Then her mother also wanted to peek. It felt extremely awkward for me. I do understand it: it is a wonderful thing to see (and experience), feeding your baby. Once I felt comfortable (physically), it was such a joy to realize that Ophelia was growing up with my milk. That said, I never breastfed in public and never will. People do watch and I don't like to be on display so to speak.

Also, I didn't feel confined at all, as I live in the city and can easily nip out between feedings and do some shopping or whatever.

Culturally it is also frowned upon here. I don't think I have ever seen a woman breastfeed in public. So, yes, that may be a factor why I don't do it.

A lot of my feelings towards breastfeeding and people who defend it, are more "grayish". I I feel really sad when people say=" it was a decision i didn't make until the nurse asked me at the hospital when i was in labor though. i was pretty torn about it even though i really didnt want to do it." You really shouldn't. It wasn't a selfish action in my opinion, but a practical one. We live in a world where it is much harder to breastfeed and, even if you do have the time/place, and decide not to, then this doesn't make you a bad mommy. I am not going to be delusional and say bottle feeding is as good as breastfeeding. It isn't. Breastfeeding is the best option (if your body lets you). But bottle feeding is a good alternative. Don't ever secondguess your choices, SS, you are a great mommy. :-)

That's why I like to get defensive: Many women I know who decided to bottle feed are bestowed (?) with such a guilt trip by breast feeding advocates, that I feel like defending these mommies.

I am sorry for being snippy - guess those hormones are raging a bit too much - but I hope I explained myself well enough to show I certainly don't look down (or at! hah!) mommies who breastfeed in public. I understand your point extremely well, but I rather not join you in public. I'm a bit of a prude. ;-)

Just came back from the OBGYN. Teeny weeny opening but that's it. Guess that 26th of October due date is going to be reached. Unless my water breaks. Y'know, it's the second time but I am still nervous about the whole experience. :-)

Our colleague came around to show her tiny baby. I totally forgot how small babies can be. :-) She was not a preemie, but still very small. Such a cutie. I hope mine will be as well. :-)

Aw, Nath, your baby will be adorable. Look at Ophelia!

I think it is really easy to be defensive about parenting decisions of any kind. I know I was (and am!). I had the opposite issue with breastfeeding than you, Nath - my mother could not have been more repelled by it. I have a couple of pictures of me nursing the kids in my scrapbooks and she always looks at them and kind of sniffs at them as in, "well, if you have to do it, WHY can't you do it where NO ONE CAN SEE?" It really is part of my personality to react against that - probably why I nursed my kids for so long, ha!

Parenting choices are really personal - to both parents and the kids - and I just don't believe that there is one right answer to any parenting question. Personally, I get defensive about wanting to give birth using epidurals.

Nothing is the right answer for *everyone*.

Nath, you are absolutely right, no mum should ever be made to feel guilty for her feeding choices and I hate the holier-than-thou breastfeeding brigade too :)

Having said that... in my experience, for every woman who doesn't want to breastfeed (for whatever reason), there are more who would *love* to breastfeed but never do, or give up after a short time, mainly because of inadequate support in the crucial early hours and days -- an even bigger issue here than a woman's right to feed wherever she needs to.

X-posted Sara, although my mum was very pro-breastfeeding, she still raised an eyebrow when I told her he wasn't going onto a bottle at 6 months...

Oh well, Meg, MOMS. ;) That is kind of funny though. Especially because it seems like you'd have to go through weaning TWICE!

(Someday our kids will be talking about us... this is a frightening thing to imagine.)

Ah, to be fair to her, she hasn't criticised me about it, I just think it was an assumption that you just don't feed past 6 months. But yes, having got this far I am way too lazy to bother with bottles...

Someday our kids will Google this thread and read what we've been saying about them -- even scarier!

Okay THAT is a scary thought!!!

hey everyone
dont come around much these days
your kids are all ace

My wife and mother-in-law took the boys to the pumpkin patch today:

Ben:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2093/1626613864_f732026ad4.jpg

Owen:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2051/1626607022_fc4c3bac00.jpg

Ben's gonna get you!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/1625699213_76f2432271.jpg

those are great shots!! esp. the one of owen. i like how theyre color coordinated with the pumpkins too! when did those kidlets start walking?

They're not quite walking yet - just lots of pulling up and "cruising."