Excelsior the book

Well, since this isn't inherent to the internet, I guess the responsibility for maintaining this belief falls on the moderators of this board, no?

For the record, I personally don't care that my posts are in this thing. I do not make the mistake of thinking that this means that no one else should care, either.

Because it won't ever be honored. Because it's unrealistic. It's like expecting that you can walk down the street having a conversation with the person next to you, or on the other end of your cell phone, without people listening. It's unrestricted space, and it's explicitly and visibly unrestricted space: it isn't possible to occupy it without being aware of that.

It's like expecting that those eavesdroppers -- whether they mean to be or not -- will never tell other people what they heard you talking about, nor post it to "In Passing," nor in their book about People Saying The Darndest Things, or whatever.

It might be a reasonable requirement of courtesy, but like it or not, courtesy beyond a certain point isn't a reasonable expectation. It just doesn't happen. It isn't something given by default.

It's not like this is new. The profit involved should be irrelevant, and seems to be irrelevant to most peoples' concerns: would they object to someone printing out a thread at Kinko's to read at work? That's all CafePress does: they print it out. They make no claims to copyright or ownership (they do require that their clients possess copyright to the work they're printing; it's never been clear they need to). So the concern is either empty principle or has to do with privacy: not wanting to be read by people you don't know are reading, or aren't answerable to the ILX community, or whatever.

How is it any different from printing out a thread and showing it to a spouse or coworker? Or letting them read your screen? Or the lurkers who read everything anyway?

I'm not saying it isn't okay to be bothered by it, although it's probably clear it doesn't bother me; I'm saying it's not reasonable to expect people to act accordingly, because they haven't been, and they aren't going to start.

(The odds that anyone who's been active in popular online places for a few years hasn't been reprinted somewhere without their consent or knowledge are not great.)

'Are you taking out email addresses or the names or what exactly?'

Mark hasn't ans this.

I didn't see any harm mostly bcz the threads selected (ILE) were harmless stuff, ilm would be a far more serious issue bcz there are ppl who make a living out of writing whereas the stuff selected here is not like that.

see you soon j0hn.

massive x-post

Why? This is a print on demand service, one no more public than here -- and harder to find. The word "book" doesn't have magic powers that make it different from "printout."

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/

'Welcome to our marketplace of over 3 million member-created products ranging from custom-designed T shirts to posters and books...'

This is like going to Kinko's and printing out a webpage, then circulating it amongst a few friends. Relax!

I still think Mark should have asked. I could have got the Bee Vibrator thread in if he had.

WITH A FOURTEEN CENT PROFIT!

Nick: Sorry, Kinko's was the only chain name I could think of; a photocopy shop, in other words.

Tep: So your friends are paying Kinko's for the copies, then?

x-post

let's hire a hitman to kill jon williams:
http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=4756047
http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=4773376

..and redefining 'enormous' on
How are they going to end ILX?

I will match every dollar raised with one towards a hitman.

-- Andrew Farrell (afarrel...), June 22nd, 2004 3:57 PM. (afarrell) (tracklink) (later)

Remember that pot we have for collecting money for a hit man? Can I contribute about £1000, please?
-- People love Gravity and Evolution! (masonicboo...), June 23rd, 2004 9:26 AM. (kate) (later)

Well a ferry ride to Rochester is $55, we could outfit Sean in a trenchcoat for another $50...
-- Mr Noodles (infinitecow...), June 23rd, 2004 11:22 AM. (Mr Noodles) (later)

This is cutting and pasting, though; the "phone conversation" here takes place in full view of a tape recorder kept in a public place so everyone who wants to listen to it has access to it.

Tep: So your friends are paying Kinko's for the copies, then?

It would be okay if Mark did this for free, but not if he asks people to pay cost?

(That isn't what it sounds like people are saying.)

As an aside, at what point in the conversation did I give the impression that I was completely unaware that Kinko's charges you for making copies? I would really like to avoid appearing like a complete and total moron in the future.

(AKA FOR FUCK'S SAKE)

I think a few people are severely overreacting. This is like "Pump Up the Volume" almost.

"Talk hard, Momus!"

-- VengaDan Perry (webmail), June 23rd, 2004 4:13 PM. (Dan Perry) (later)

AND MADE A FOURTEEN CENT PROFIT?

May I provide links to other sites on my Web Page?

This topic is debated often and no clear resolution has emerged. Unless you are given express permission to link to a site, you should contact the owner of the other site and obtain their permission before you do so.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that I'm giving Mark the benefit of the doubt by assuming that he did this out of cluelessness and a general ignorance of online tact, rather than out of some impulse to cause harm and hurt people. Maybe I'm wrong, in which case all the ire is justified.

I don't think you're a moron -- I addressed you, but I was talking to the thread, too, or I would've just emailed you. Not everyone knew what Kinko's was; I was trying to make the comparison clear, that CafePress is just a high-end photocopying service. So many of the complaints upthread are incredibly vague that it doesn't seem at all clear that people object for the same reason, or even agree with each others' objections.

also, what about people who link to ilx in their blogs?

ILX Mods plot Jon Williams death via hitman! [aka Bored Of The Flies 2004]

'Although it is illegal and an infringement of your copyright for someone to copy your work without your permission, the reality is that it is very easy for someone to do. It is possible to limit the systems that can access your site, for example, only UC computers could gain access; or set up a password system to allow only certain users to the site. You should place a copyright notice on the work and advise browsers what they may and may not do with your work. None of these approaches will prevent someone from copying your works off your site. In short, if you have something very valuable that you don't want people to use, don't put it on your web page.'

© Copyright 2001 The Regents of the University of California, All Rights Reserved.

I mean, sure, I can understand the general idea that things posted here are being willingly thrown out into the ether to be viewed by whoever happens to come across them; most of us use handles anyway and aren’t writing anything that’s particularly dear to us. But ILX has attracted a whole lot of people whose names and reputations are directly tied to the work they do. Which has always made me really happy --- that someone like John or the countless working-critics on ILM could join freely into the discussions without worrying that they were engaging in anything other than some casual in-house banter. Everyone’s always respected that on here; this whole book idea, whether anyone looks at it or not, basically knifes the idea that even the most explicit of our protections on here --- the clearly-stated copyright --- will mean anything to anyone. You may not care what happens to the stuff you post, but some people do, period.

Beyond which c’mon: it’s just illegal! You can't do this; you can't search up everything John ever wrote and publish “First Pl4ne to J4karta: The Collected Works of J0hn D4rneille”; you can't just wholesale print and bind Simon Reynolds’ blog, either. You write content here; it stays here. If people want to read it on the toilet, all they need are printers and heavy-duty staplers.