Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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great idea that's been done a thousand times already by writers with far less contempt for their audience

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

without reading the article i expected to find i owned most of these albums. boy was i wrong.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:33 (twenty years ago) link

Mr Matos, that was spot on. he seems in utter utter contempt of the fans of these records rather than discussing why the records actually failed. which is upsetting as I enjoy his writing normally. Plus the multiple page thing is just annoying.

I still maintain it's a good idea if he ever tried to root it in fact.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:36 (twenty years ago) link

The items listed above are hardly "factual innacuracies." They're matters of opinion, okay??

OK, I should have chosen my words more carefully. "Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of very debatable opinions." But honestly, calling the KLF grebo makes about as much sense to me as calling Negativeland twee pop.

― Jeremy (Jeremy), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:44 (twenty years ago) link

Did anyone actually read this? Not every recod got dismissed.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link

contempt for audience /= dissmissing every record

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:52 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, I know that, but a lot of people are arguing from a position that makes it seem like all of the records are being chastised/denigrated, and they just aren't.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:53 (twenty years ago) link

ok, sorry then

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:56 (twenty years ago) link

R.I.F.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:24 (twenty years ago) link

With Ott it's less contempt for audience and more contempt for everything, isn't it? That said, I think the piece is fine. I see all of the selections mentioned in used bins regularly and it makes sense to focus only on those things that would be of some interest to the average pitchfork reader. Plus he picks out several things that are worth picking up for 1-2 bucks. I guess we can turn this in to another "Pitchfork Sucks" thread, but I don't think it's really warranted.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link

Didn't Melody Maker used to do this kinda thing once a month? It was shit then as well.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:38 (twenty years ago) link

well, contempt for everything makes the whole thing all right! duh!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link

Just saying that I've read Ott's stuff on P'fork before (I assume you have as well), I knew what to expect going in, and there wasn't much there to rile me. Which I guess means that the piece failed since Ott's M.O. is pretty much always to get a rise out of his audience.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:48 (twenty years ago) link

And yes, since this seems to be his only goal, I don't think he's worth much as a music critic. On the other hand, as a message board troll, he's great.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:52 (twenty years ago) link

I skimmed through two pages and then was too bored to continue. Do they really expect readers to pore over pages and pages of this stuff?

― Nicolars (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty years ago) link

Odd that there were no Pumpkins albums, I see them in bins even more than '90s REM.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty years ago) link

ott is fucking high;
can't do this list without the
GOD DAMNED SPIN DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:01 (twenty years ago) link

Obviously it's statistically suspect, especially globally, but we did the best we could, we're a daily site. I spent about two weeks on this and so far only regret missing The Cure's Wild Mood Swings. Spin Doctors and Pumpkins are far too mainstream to bother with, you're talking about heavy, heavy MTV and RS exposure, just huge bands. REM was an exception because both longtime and new fans sell it back without fail.

And my only interest is to "rile" readers? Do me a favor and read some of my reviews, rather than just the last two admittedly inflammatory features. I've gotten behind loads of records. And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:08 (twenty years ago) link

I quite liked it, Chris, although you mentioned The Cure a few too many times.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link

I did mention The Cure too often; I also made too many disparaging comments toward teenagers considering our audience, but I honestly like the "written in one go" feel that lends it, since it's so long.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:17 (twenty years ago) link

And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.

and this proves what, exactly?

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:32 (twenty years ago) link

that's a serious question, by the way--I'm genuinely interested in the answer, and not in a baiting way, either

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:33 (twenty years ago) link

and this proves what, exactly?
That more people read and/or react to my writing than most music critics out there today, and usually (notably, gratefully) from beyond the self-adoring, self-obsessed ILM/Reynolds/Momus/blogger community.

Now are you riled? SUCKAZ SHOCKA!!!

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty years ago) link

why would I be riled? I was asking a question.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty years ago) link

So let me see... the fact that people on ILM start threads about Chris Ott... proves that people outside of ILM react to Chris Ott's writing... O-kay.

― self-adoring, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:46 (twenty years ago) link

although the fact that a guy from Pitchfork calls anyone else part of a "self-adoring, self-obsessed community" is certainly amusing
xpost

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:47 (twenty years ago) link

No, the ILM thread is predictable at this point, after the 100 useless posts you kids made in re: A.R.E.N'T G.O.O.D. It's the hundreds of positive emails I get from less cynical readers that bear me out.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:51 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not even saying that pejoratively--self-adoration and self-obsession comes with the territory of tight-knit communities a lot of the time, whether it's necessarily wise or not.

also, Ott, you're not exactly the person to be calling other people out on cynicism, either.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty years ago) link

Music is not music.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty years ago) link

I thought the Spin Doctors would be #1!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:54 (twenty years ago) link

or let me put it this way: when people refer to other people as being "less cynical than thou" it's usually a dodge, a way of equating cynicism with a differing viewpoint. that may not necessarily be what you're trying to do here but it certainly comes across that way--hundreds of readers who like what you're doing vs. the people who post here who don't like what you're doing. fine--writing criticism is a divisive act, anyone who does it regularly has to be open to dealing with the consequences of it. I just think it's faulty reasoning to assume "they like it" = "they're not cynical and/or "they don't like it" = "they are cynical."

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:57 (twenty years ago) link

That's a pretty convenient translation of my statement, Mike, allows you to be right! Ridiculously presumptuous and arrogant. The lack of cynicism I hear from outside your sphere is evident in the content of the emails I get, not their mere existence (or their positivity). I'm not offended that you think I'm that stupid, but I'm somewhat embarrassed to find that you are.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link

Chris. Hand. Penis. Scab.

Pick it off, maaaannnnn.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link

OMG CRITICISM IS MASTURBATION ANALOGY SHOCKA.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:08 (twenty years ago) link

Sorry, I just thought your article was shitty. You can keep the scabs.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:09 (twenty years ago) link

Carey: you are part of my readership. That is our relationship. If you think I concern myself with your take on things, you're seriously overestimating your place in this world.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:11 (twenty years ago) link

there are many, many more things you should be embarrassed about, Chris, like the fact that you've managed to interpret a speculative paragraph that announces that it's a speculative paragraph ("that may not necessarily be what you're trying to do here, but it certainly comes across that way" pretty clearly states this is one person's opinion, and that the one person is allowing for the fact that they might be wrong) as some kind of arrogant presumption. also, this is as much your sphere as it is mine--you participate on this thread, you're as much part of it as I am.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:11 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, your webzine might have (had?) a column called "We Are the World" but that doesn't mean you should actually go around acting like it's true. Grow the fuck up.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link

Does this mean I don't ever get to write for Pitchfork?

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link

We have more readers than SPIN, Mikey. Sit the fuck down.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link

Carey: you are part of my readership. That is our relationship. If you think I concern myself with your take on things, you're seriously overestimating your place in this world.

So hold on... you're calling other people arrogant?

― wanksta, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link

Right, that gives you the right to assume the arrogance you accuse others of. How quickly I forgOtt.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, that is a truly cosmic level of arrogance right there!

Glad I'm not one of those hundreds of people writing to you!

― onanist, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link

It's not arrogance, it's a fact.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link

xpost

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link

My head hurts.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link

I'm dying to see the audit on this one.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link

also, is having more readers than Spin at this point really something to brag about? Spin's readership has been shrinking for a while now, I'm not sure where the pride comes in there

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link

this thread is very funny.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link

like a hundred dogs, ned.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 1824 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

he curses a lot

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link

idk could be

― goole, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

― joshywinty (josh), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:26 (six years ago) link

@shallowrewards Jun 25
500 Days of Summer. Gets me. Every. Fucking. Time. When I talk about what my days were like under Ryan, that's what it was.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link

500 days of custos

― mark s, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:31 (six years ago) link

I think it's amazing that Ned hates this guy so much.
If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.

― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link

He might love puppies or something, but I care not.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link

ts: ott vs. c-man

― mookieproof, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:24 (six years ago) link

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6DGNZnfKYnU/hqdefault.jpg

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link

"Gorilla mindset follower." is the giveaway here

― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:08 (six years ago) link

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/chris-ott-deleted-his-shallowrewards-twitter-for-real/

― joshywinty (josh), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:12 (six years ago) link

yeah, this is parody. definitely someone from hipinion.

― fffv, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:11 (six years ago) link

how has there not been a single mention of "bennies" yet?

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:20 (six years ago) link

Dude is going to be 65 and probably still excited that several decades before about twenty other dudes wrote about him on a message board.

― yesca, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:56 (six years ago) link

If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.

ned is an o.g. hater

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link

Why does Ned Raggett hate Belle and Sebastian with such unbridled intensity?

http://freakytrigger.co.uk/nylpm/2000/05/in-answer-to-the-band-best-of-lists/

In answer to the band best-of lists
NED RAGGETT • NEW YORK LONDON PARIS MUNICH • POP • POST A COMMENT • 203 VIEWS
… I deem it both meet and right to speak about the music and related things I loathe. In an underrated essay from Neil Tennant that appeared in a mid-1992 issue of Details, he discussed hate as a motivating factor for creation and sense of self. To quote: “It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration, it makes you think, ‘What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.’ Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.”

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:35 (six years ago) link

And indeed, I know what deserves my venom.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:36 (six years ago) link

iirc, Interpol and Elliott Smith too

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:32 (six years ago) link

The former, yes. The latter I was never really convinced by, though I was a Heatmiser fan. I just remember him doing an opening set for the Tindersticks in late 1997 that seemed pretty blah.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:39 (six years ago) link

Allmusic's Ned Raggett takes No Prisoners

― Guidonian Handsworth Revolution (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:48 (six years ago) link

ned will really burn you on a bad show experience

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:50 (six years ago) link

It sure didn't help!

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:53 (six years ago) link

Oh man, I still have my copy of that Neil Tennant essay. Have to pull it out again to re-read.

― john. a resident of chicago., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 05:06 (six years ago) link

Lots of people dig up my old tweets. They dont get it. Mad because your dad gets more pussy than you? Suck my fuckin dick
12:05 PM - 17 Jun 2017

― hackshaw, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:38 (six years ago) link

what if everyone just unfollowed chris ott and stopped talking about him and we all pretended he never existed

― Karl Malone, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:48 (six years ago) link

I'm in.

― Shanty Brunch (stevie), Thursday, 29 June 2017 09:13 (six years ago) link

reddit first

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, 29 June 2017 17:51 (six years ago) link

we need the eggs, karl

― j., Thursday, 29 June 2017 18:04 (six years ago) link

👋🐨 pic.twitter.com/z6SwVQUHaW
— Pallbearer (@pallbearerdoom) July 2, 2017

― j., Sunday, 2 July 2017 14:11 (six years ago) link

whut

― alpine static, Monday, 3 July 2017 08:16 (six years ago) link

it seems unrelated but it's an absolutely wonderful post that is appreciated very much by me. keith fullerton whitman must've went to the same koala farm because there's a great picture of him with one. i'll see if i can find it

― flappy bird, Monday, 3 July 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link

http://factmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/keithwhitman-4.15.2013.jpg

― flappy bird, Monday, 3 July 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link

grant morrison needs to lay off the pies

― 🎵oooh, kevin has a place in perth🎵 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 3 July 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link

eight months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MSTcRlKzs

― Leslie “POLLS” Hartley (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 25 March 2018 16:35 (six years ago) link

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