― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 15:36 (nineteen years ago) link
Me thinks Gaiman is best with P. Craig Russell and Dave McKean.
Also most excellent and worth purchasing is his Two Plays for Voices double audio disk thing. It's got Murder Mysteries (featuring the voice of Brian Dennehy!) and Snow Glass Apples (featuring the voice of Bebe Neuwirth (aka Lilith from Frasier)!) performed with a full cast and real noises and such!
― Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link
it's a LOT better than Alan Moore's k-rub whingey over-wordy run on Marvelman/Miracleman. And lest that sound like faint praise, the issue with the spies is one of the best ever comics issues ever.
Sandman is pretty much all good apart from the spinoffs and "The Wake". And the wanky goth fans.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Yes, drawn by Bisley with a fairly liberal regard for the script, and as such not making quite as much sense as you feel it was meant to.
S:Violent Cases. His first comic and possibly still the best one he's done (McKean's done better since though, especially A Glass Of Water with Morrison while he was still in that illustrative mode)The Books Of Magic. Only if you're a DC nerd, probably, but such a well-handled nostalgia-stroking, on par with Ambush Bug or Chase or, probably, New Frontier if it ever comes out in a sane format so I can buy it and find out.Sandman. Some bits are much better than others, but big props for managing to tell a big coherent novel despite editorial wankery, inept colouring, the odd bit of shit art, and the whole long-story short-stories format. End justifies means, or something. the Secret Origin Of The Riddler story whose title I can't remember, but it's gold. The '80s Riddler bemoaning the mindless grittiness of the current Batman world while prancing around a junkyard full of giant typewriters and comedy deathtraps. Plus! Pencilled by Bernie Mireault, inked by Matt Wagner, and coloured by Joe Matt!!Hold Me (cf Farrel above)Miracleman, though Silver Age was not shaping up to be as great as Golden Age. The latter aided by Mark Buckingham being a good and creative artist at that time.on that note, Feeders And EatersSloth, from the Seven Deadly Sins book that also had Alan Moore's fairly ace Lust.
D:1602. "Step lightly sirrah, I dare say this ROOM may contain DANGERS of some fashion. Indeed, one might even call it a DANGER ROOM" etc ad infinitum. Plus the art was shit, and printed so badly that it looked like a laptop screen. Also fuck the 'it's not an alternate universe, it's the real Marvel Universe! Honest! Whatever has happened to it? Find out!' hype, and then in the last issue 'BOOYAH it's an alternate TIMELINE ha ha fooled you'. This might have been even more annoying if I gave two shits about the Marvel Universe.any and all adaptations of short stories into comics. One Life Furnished In Early Moorcock, Harlequin Valentine, the lot. most egregious offender: Villanelle by Gaiman & McKean getting printed text-only as Luther's Villanelle in one of his books, then re-adapted into comics by some chancer in... an anthology with an Ed Brubaker cover. From Cult Press?Angela (miniseries. The original Spawn story was fine for what it was.)that whole Tekno-Comics debacle, especially bothering to write an intro/framing story thing for 'em all. The Rick Veitch/Bryan Talbot Teknophage series was ace though.
― kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 00:12 (nineteen years ago) link
I'd forgotten about Chase until earlier today. I enjoyed it, but sort of knew the writer, D. Curtis Johnson (he did not sort of know me). I don't know if he did anything after getting to write the very next issue of JLA after Grant Morrison left.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 00:43 (nineteen years ago) link
D: Most everything else.
― Λεεετερ φαν δεν, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link
Actually I have just realised that 1602 is the Gaiman book for Gaiman-hataz because it's him doing all the things they accuse him of so they can read the punchy-punchy stuff AND still feel smug at the end of it.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 08:28 (nineteen years ago) link
Black Orchid: the best superhero rewrite ever? Beats anything Frank Miller did with the genre.
A Doll's House, Dream Country, Season of Mists, A Game of You, The Wake: these are the better Sandman stories.
Death - The High Cost of Living: the most satisfying Sandman-related story he ever wrote.
A Signal to Noise: a nice, more experimental comic.
Books of Magic: good fun, though I liked the John Ney Rieber version even more, until it got really messy.
Stardust: nothing special here, but it works.
Harlequin Valentine: see above.
The angel detective story (what was it called?): see above.
D:
Preludes and Nocturnes, World's End, Kindly Ones, Endless Nights, Death - The Time of Your Life: these are the less good Sandman stories, which doesn't mean they don't have their moments. Endless Nights was perhaps the biggest disappointment, only the Delirium story was any good.
Violent Cases: I never quite got it.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:08 (nineteen years ago) link
- NG blogged about BookSlut- BookSlut blogged about ILBooks (& possibly ILC)- ILB lead to ILX- ILX lead to ILC
QED, sho nuff.
― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
― Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 21 October 2004 03:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Wooden (Wooden), Thursday, 21 October 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― ilovehpl (ilovehpl), Saturday, 23 October 2004 14:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 24 October 2004 04:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 25 October 2004 05:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― chap who would dare to start Raaatpackin (chap), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 31 July 2006 08:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ray (Ray), Monday, 31 July 2006 10:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― chap who would dare to start Raaatpackin (chap), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― Kneel Gaymin (Leee), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link
it's funny, you see this idea used all the time in cartoons, but i can't really remember ever seeing it used much in comics.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 05:17 (seventeen years ago) link
So apparently there'll be a new Sandman prequel coming out next year, written by Gaiman and drawn by J. H. Williams. It'll tell the story of what happened to Sandman just before issue #1, as hinted in one panel in Brief Lives, and in Gaiman's introduction to the Doll's House TPB.
I know Gaiman's mentioned before that he might some day write this story, but I wonder if the real reason he's doing it 15 years after the series ended is because DC finally promised him a big enough pile of cash to write a new full-length Sandman story. I predict it'll be like the stuff in Endless Nights: an okay-ish story, but mostly just a showcase for the artist.
― Tuomas, Monday, 16 July 2012 09:06 (eleven years ago) link
he spent ages trying to get them to let him do this same story for the 20th anniversary, but they wouldn't pay him any more than he got in 1988, even on the same page rate but a deferred royalty program that he proposed to not kick in until after the collection was out. so I think it's less likely "a big enough pile of cash" and more likely "a royalty higher than 6%, from 2015," once another year of JHW's exclusive has recouped
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Monday, 16 July 2012 13:02 (eleven years ago) link
details are in the Bissette/Golden
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Monday, 16 July 2012 13:03 (eleven years ago) link
I predict it'll be like the stuff in Endless Nights: an okay-ish story, but mostly just a showcase for the artist.
Yeah I'll probably buy it, but mainly for the drawings
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 16 July 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
Which is about how I looked at PROMETHEA during its second half or so.
― Matt M., Monday, 16 July 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
Has J. H. Williams actually done any comic where the writing would be on the same level as his art? Maybe Seven Soldiers #0? Batwoman and that one series with Ellis were okay, but it still felt like the art was the bigger draw even in them.
― Tuomas, Monday, 16 July 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
The writing in the first year or so of Promethea was terrific IMO.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 16 July 2012 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, and I don't think he's outshining the writing in Chase at all
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
it wasn't until Moore got locked into his "and now we're going to visit EVERY sefirot!" thing that it started to get tiresome imho. actually the sequences after that are pretty good too.
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:56 (eleven years ago) link
Oh yeah, I forgot about the first third of Promethea, when the "lessons on Magick" thing hadn't started yet. Yeah, that was pretty good stuff. I wonder if Moore always intended Promethea to go from regular plots to lecturing, or whether (as Douglas suggests in his book) he only changed gears when he realized Williams and Gray were actually able to illustrate whatever kabbalistic concept he threw at them?
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 08:20 (eleven years ago) link
First third/half/whatever of PROMETHEA is well-written. I guess DESOLATION JONES was, too, though I'm not a big fan of Ellis' work overall.
― Matt M., Tuesday, 17 July 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/07/01/arts/ap-us-comics-sandmans-return.html
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Monday, 1 July 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
Gaiman is giving a talk at the MFA and one of my friends is trying to crowdsource a ticket into it
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Monday, 1 July 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
I hope he's offering beer and/or hugs in exchange
[Sandman doesn't really bear a lot of re-reading ime. It's construction was p novel at the time - all these seemingly disconnected strands weaving in and out - but it's not really something with a lot of depth and a lot of the art is terrible.
been re-reading the entire run recently, including the books I haven't read since they were initially published in monthly comics form, and this is still pretty much how I feel. For every "oh that's clever" mythological recontextualization conceit there's a ton of precious gothic mopey posing or hamfisted repetition of themes/plot points and omg some of the art is SO BAD. Hempel, P. Craig Russell and a handful of others acquit themselves well but man there is a lot of just sloppy scratchy poorly colored bullshit. Story-wise one of the things I find annoying about it is how mechanical and fatalistic it is - there are rules, and things various beings have to do, and that's just the way it is, and then it happens, and then it's over. The lack of agency on the part of so many characters, while obviously clearly rooted in some of the mythological traditions Gaiman is so fond of pillaging, also makes any real emotional engagement with the material difficult. It's very clockwork. I kinda don't give a shit about any of them except for Hob Gadling, maybe the only genuinely relatable/realistic character in the whole thing.
It is interesting to me that while this is the work that established him, judging from my personal anecdotal experience and the various other ilx threads, he managed to become a kind of cutesy goth cottage industry with a variety of points of entry for both comics and non-comics fans alike.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 16:57 (six years ago) link
Has gaiman done anything worthwhile in years? Last efforts of his I tried were that rubbish Batman funeral nonsense and the first issue of Sandman Overture, which I couldn't be arsed going on with. Prosewise, Anansi Boys was enough for me to bail.
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Sunday, 13 August 2017 10:03 (six years ago) link
His short prose stories are still often good.
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Sunday, 13 August 2017 10:16 (six years ago) link
Anansi boys is a terrible pun. Book was ok.
The YA one about the pond (?) was forgettable. Downhill all the way after the first chapter.
I've just bought the Norse Mythology thing cheap on Amazon, am hoping that's better.
― koogs, Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
I am really enjoying his current adaptation of american gods with russell and hampton. Didnt read the book tho.
― i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:07 (six years ago) link
russell and hampton
?
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
P. Craig Russell and Scott Hampton are the main two artists on the comic adaptation of American Gods. They are also using some guest artists on some of the interlude sections like Walt Simonson.
Haven't read the novel, but I have seen the first season of the TV show and after reading the first 5 issues of the comic. I liked both enough that I'm looking for a paperback at the used book stores though.
― earlnash, Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
I remember liking the book but am having trouble finding the time or enthusiasm to read it again.
― koogs, Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
Nowadays I think most folks know him because of the novels and the adaptations and the Twitter account, whereas Sandman is just a "weird comic he used to to do"
My partner and most of my family have read Neverwhere, I didn't much enjoy it but they all *loved* it
I've just been re-reading Sandman too, I'm at A Game of You, which iirc is where it starts to get boring
He's not to my taste, but I wouldn't underestimate the pull of someone who writes reasonably well-written, accessible, female-reader friendly adult genre fiction - he doesn't have a ton of competition there
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
Queer friendly as well. His politics have always been pretty good. But yeah in terms of actual writing skills, a lot of great ideas but hardly top tier when it comes pulling them all togther. I thought Sandman was the bollocks when I was a teenager but am scared to read it again.
― chap, Monday, 14 August 2017 10:31 (six years ago) link
I'm enjoying it so far, including the art, but it's better when it's a horror book. Anything to do with fairies, roman emperors, greek gods, Charles Vess, etc - forget it. And SO MUCH TEXT, I still want to skip it as much as I did when I was a teenager.
Also any version of the phrase "This is a story about stories" - argh.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 14 August 2017 11:57 (six years ago) link
I recall my teenaged brain saw all the text as a sign of literary weight - cf Moore's Swamp Thing (which admittedly holds up fairly well).
― chap, Monday, 14 August 2017 12:07 (six years ago) link
P. Craig Russell and Scott Hampton are the main two artists on the comic adaptation of American Gods
ah right - as far as I know that adaptation is written by Russell, as with all his adaptations, without collaboration from the writer.
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:48 (six years ago) link
lol otm
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 15:43 (six years ago) link
Moore's purply prose in Swamp Thing doesn't bother me a bit, it's totally in the over-written horror vein of Lovecraft, Dunsany etc.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 15:44 (six years ago) link
He's just a much better storyteller than Gaiman (or was), so it mostly doesn't matter, yeah.
― chap, Monday, 14 August 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
Moore's prose style is horrible nowadays.
This is niche but lots of fun: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Nothing_O%27Clock_(short_story) - it's the first thing by Gaiman i've wholeheartedly enjoyed since I was a teen
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 14 August 2017 22:39 (six years ago) link
Ah, yes, his Who work. i loved The Doctor's Wife, did not like Nightmare in Silver at all
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 00:12 (six years ago) link
The Doctor's Wife was written four years before Sandman Overture, or I would have mentioned it.
Nightmare In Silver was a total mess, but also was changed significantly from his script, and had major issues in production otherwise too.
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 01:37 (six years ago) link
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/neil-gaiman-good-omens-michael-sheen-amazon-1202522663/
― WilliamC, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
Casting pretty dead on, albeit whitedudey
Xpost - The short story is a lot better than either of his episodes.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 03:12 (six years ago) link
I couldn't get through the first issue of Sandman Overture. Tedious.
― chap, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 09:09 (six years ago) link
Unfortunately it's the best issue, too
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 10:06 (six years ago) link
Ah well
― groovypanda, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 10:22 (six years ago) link
most of the JH Williams III comics I've bought were for him rather than the writing, and Sandman Overture was a great setup for him to run wild on.
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 11:13 (six years ago) link
Oh yeah very beautiful art for sure.
― chap, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 11:16 (six years ago) link
I finished up my re-read of Sandman with Game of You and jesus christ what a shitty mess of a book that is from start to finish, from the ridiculous Delany intro in the TPB to the totally unearned pathos of the closing funeral scene, I wanted to throw it across the room when I was done with it.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 15:28 (six years ago) link
literally nothing about the story makes any sense, the setup, the characters, the resolution. All feels made up as it goes along, with plenty of garbage details and crappily conceived gender politics window-dressing thrown in, the art is painful to look at, BLECH
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 15:31 (six years ago) link
I remember GoY being one of the medium to better arcs, but I haven't read any of the original run for at least a decade.
― chap, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:39 (six years ago) link
there's a lesbian character who describes being coerced (although tbf it isn't really clear what happens, her description is deliberately muddled to foreground the character's total ignorance of hetero sex, which is really weird) into sex with a man and then skips a period and thinks she is pregnant so she asks Barbie how can she find out if she is really pregnant/what should she do. She asks Barbie if it hurts to have an abortion and Barbie says "not really". It is one of the most tone-deaf and poorly conceived sequences, it's really flabbergasting. And this is in the middle of a story arc that involves a trans character being told she's not really a woman cuz "the gods don't see it that way", and is subsequently killed (along with a homeless black woman) because Thessaly violates some magical law about the moon. And then Barbie is sad that her trans roommate is dead but apparently bears no ill will to Thessaly even though it is 100% her fault god there are so many fucking plot holes in this thing.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:48 (six years ago) link
So anyone else watched the Good Omens mini-series on Amazon Video or whatever they call it?
It's... as good and bad as the book. Aziraphale and Crowley are pretty damn great in it though.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 21 June 2019 03:52 (four years ago) link
oh nevermind, this thread is in comics... didn't realize
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:03 (four years ago) link
Discussed on the Amazon Prime thread.
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:15 (four years ago) link
any version of the phrase "This is a story about stories" - argh.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 14 August 2017 12:57 (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink
"Sandman is a story about stories"Author @neilhimself explains the story of his famous comic ahead of its Netflix release#KayBurley MT pic.twitter.com/Zv0DjukouI— Kay Burley (@KayBurley) August 3, 2022
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 3 August 2022 09:30 (one year ago) link