I seriously can't take this anymore. Every day feels the absolute same, plus the horrible stress of this bullshit, and then you think ... I'm doing into super fucking debt, and the top students at this school are struggling to find decent work. I mean, is this all worth it? I can't sleep anymore, this is becoming like a fucking nightmare. uhhhhghhhhhh
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 18 November 2008 07:21 (fifteen years ago) link
Welcome to your first year, burt. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
The only way to develop a callus is through repetition. Read, brief, outline, test, repeat.
― B.L.A.M., Tuesday, 18 November 2008 21:35 (fifteen years ago) link
No regrets so far. 9pm in the library and I'm lovin it! See, they've completely broken me!! AHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, I don't regret it so far. I might regret it if I don't do well enough to keep my scholarship. But I only need to make top 40%.
― Albert Jeans (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 November 2008 02:14 (fifteen years ago) link
i don't think i was ever in the library at 9pm. also i had a drug problem during law school.
― cutty, Friday, 21 November 2008 03:17 (fifteen years ago) link
Still here, about to leave. Before I do, a bit of corny, sleep-deprived law school humor from a message board discussion of our legal memo assignment:
E: Can we assume that Cozy Shoes ships its products to department stores using any of the common methods for shipping (i.e. truck, train, or air, but not horses, mules, submarines or hot-air balloons)? Or does "ships" refer to one particular and exclusive method?
J: Is their case law dealing with the effect of shipment by mules, horses, submarines and hot air balloons on personal jurisdiction?
E: This is not something I have personally investigated, but if Cozy Skins were transporting its goods by mule, I think that would be relevant, don't you? Especially if there was only one mule and he was from Massachusetts and all his ancestors were from Massachusetts and he was deriving a benefit from the state's protection of mules and doing things a mule could only do in Massachusetts like going to prep school, meeting other mules in cranberry bogs and giving rides on the Freedom Trail....
J: With all due respect, I think the shipping method is a red herring. Which is impressive, because red herring are generally unreliable as work animals.
― Albert Jeans (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 November 2008 04:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Law school ain't bad, I just wish I didn't suck ass at being cold called on. I'm always like "uhhhh errrrrrrr uhhhhhhhhh errrrrrrrr" until the professor mercifully moves on to the next student. :{
― burt_stanton, Friday, 21 November 2008 04:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Is this a retarded question? I'm trying to do the whole class participation thing and posted this on one of the class messageboards:
Does Rule 13(a) do something really different from the doctrine of claim preclusion? It seems like on the surface they both operate under the same principle of efficiency ("use it or lose it"), but I'm having trouble sorting out the particularities. It’s probably something obvious or unimportant, but if anyone has any ideas I’d be interested to know.
― burt_stanton, Friday, 21 November 2008 04:53 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh yeah, exams in three weeks. Good times.
― burt_stanton, Friday, 21 November 2008 05:07 (fifteen years ago) link
That's actually something we covered today. It doesn't seem like a dumb question -- I was sort of wondering the same thing. Like if you'd be barred from bringing the action later regardless, what do you need the mandatory counterclaim rule for?
― Albert Jeans (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 November 2008 19:42 (fifteen years ago) link
FUN
― cutty, Friday, 21 November 2008 20:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I KNOW!
― Albert Jeans (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 November 2008 20:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Does Rule 13(a) do something really different from the doctrine of claim preclusion? It seems like on the surface they both operate under the same principle of efficiency ("use it or lose it"), but I'm having trouble sorting out the particularities. It’s probably something obvious or unimportant, but if anyone has any ideas I’d be interested to know
Rule 13(a) is ENTIRELY about efficiency - use it or lose it, if it springs from the same operative set of facts. Claim preclusion is implicated once there is final jugment on the merits - a particular claim cannot be relitigated once it has been finally decided.
By the way - less than 6 hours to go until I find out
― B.L.A.M., Friday, 21 November 2008 20:21 (fifteen years ago) link
So, remember -
13(a) - same set of facts, you have to bring it up or you lose it because the court doesn't want to see you back on the same basic factsClaim Preclusion - if its already been decided, you can't re-litigate.
― B.L.A.M., Friday, 21 November 2008 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link
BTW - I passed the bar exam. Good luck with your exams, guys. Send along any questions on which you would like a different perspective.
― B.L.A.M., Tuesday, 25 November 2008 19:57 (fifteen years ago) link
CONGRATS!
― Indiespace Administratester (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 20:14 (fifteen years ago) link
What the hell is a torts exam like? I need to robble robble some of these old exams. Do we try to analyze new cases based on the general principles of each tort theory?
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
like ... we get some case that resembles a DES-like situation, so we try to apply the general theory of market share liability to the new facts? Our prof isn't particularly forthcoming about this stuff.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link
wtf's DES?
torts exam should be just a story about something bad happening to someone, you recognize what the issues are (like oh it's not clear there's proximate cause here, the defendant did or didn't have a duty toward the plaintiff, etc.). you might also get a policy question where you have to tell what the pros and cons of adopting a different theory are. i would find some old exams or a book with practice problems in it.
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Do they make old exams available at Cardozo? You should get some of your profs old exams.
Mine basically just gives you a really long fact pattern with tons of different issues in it and then writes "discuss," or "assess the liabilities of the parties" or something like that. So you might have six people and you have to explain why and under what theories each might/might not be liable, any defenses that might come up and whether they're likely to succeed, any issues that might come up with damages, joint-tortfeasor liability, etc.
The advice I get over and over again is that you're not trying to get the right answer but trying to properly identify/examine/address/discuss as many ambiguities and sticking points as possible.
― Indiespace Administratester (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:32 (fifteen years ago) link
DES was a very popular drug that turned out to increase the risk of... was it birth defects or cancer? Anyway, it was a big market-share liability case (lots of different companies produced DES and it was impossible to figure out which one produced the DES a particular plaintiff had ingested)
― Indiespace Administratester (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:34 (fifteen years ago) link
The DES thing comes from Sindell v. Abbott Laboratories, apparently one of the standards for market share liability.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:34 (fifteen years ago) link
(the case happened in 1980, so for you oldsters it was probably less standard then)
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, our prof said it's basically useless to name drop cases, only if you use it when you're illustrating principles
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link
SPOT THE ISSUES
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link
if you see a similarity to a case.. cite it, and then say what's different in the hypo
IRAC
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:40 (fifteen years ago) link
ok i remember that case. you might have to know that, i dunno. some professors use problems that resemble real cases you read, at least in part.
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:40 (fifteen years ago) link
btw it's impt to outline your answer before you write the problem. then the exam becomes like a large series of related short answer questions!
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe also mention law and order, or boston legal? you know, to seem like you care about the law a lot?
― :) Mrs Edward Cullen XD (max), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link
Our exam's closed book, no notes, so the professor said not to bother citing cases. It's more of a test of theory
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm almost amused when max pops up in the law threads
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
I guess if we did a market share liability case, we'd have to demonstrate we understand the formula of x multiplied by y dispersed amongst blah blah blah, and then apply the percentages if the theory is met in some other way. Hurting, you get any of this shit?
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
a closed-book exam is a good sign, i think. i hate open book and i hate the whiners that ask for open book exams.
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:43 (fifteen years ago) link
What about a closed-book Civ Pro exam?
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:43 (fifteen years ago) link
if it's a test of theory, read your prosser hornbook. oh, you didn't buy one? yr fucked
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:44 (fifteen years ago) link
my civ pro exam was closed book and i pwned it. a lot of people cried after that exam and i laughed at them.
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link
(j/k)
burt, it's really hard to gauge what your teacher is going do. everyone is different. my civ pro exam was comprised of two two-page long ridiculous fact patterns. i remember one involved a federal civil rights statute and the erie doctrine. the other a defective snowboard and how it related to juridiction over the manufacturer, the seller, etc.
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link
like you have time to look in the book anyway
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^ otm
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link
FOUR HOURS will never move faster than it will during a law exam final
You know, civ pro's not really that bad ... my problem is, I'm sloppy when reading questions, and so I come up with truly bizarre responses to ridiculosuly easy questions. : {
I really need to bone up on the Erie doctrine's tree of fun.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i've got an open book exam in my medical ethics course and it's making me wish i could lawyer the shit out of the answers
― hyperspace situation (gbx), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:47 (fifteen years ago) link
you can lawyer the shit out of anything... if you're a lawyer
― cutty, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:48 (fifteen years ago) link
read the problem more than once, burt!
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:49 (fifteen years ago) link
Anyway, I'm going to be bad and skip class tomorrow for an extended Thanksgiving break. I can't sleep anymore :{ None of the 1Ls here I know can sleep thanks to exam time. Perhaps we should have all gone to cheaper schools.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:49 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah that's the problem.
actually thinking about taking the LSAT, just for shits.
― hyperspace situation (gbx), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:50 (fifteen years ago) link
you should ignore what other people are doing or whether they are sleeping or not sleeping. you will be much happier. xp
― bear of the teddy (harbl), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:50 (fifteen years ago) link
The exams I did the best in during law school were the ones where I had exhausted the supply of earlier answers. With several, the professors rescinded their offers to "look over" our practice exam answers. I got a little nutso.
With torts in particular, they'll prolly do a little on intentional, a little on market share and other "exotic" brands of torts, but they will inevitably spend the majority of the exam on negligence. So, just learn the way your professor wants you to understand negligence, and apply the fuck out of it to as many practice exams as you can get.
The outlining is ESPECIALLY important when you get hit with a huge multi party question. If you've done enough practice questions, you'll do two things when faced with a ridiculously huge fact pattern:
(1) you'll want to throw upand (2) you'll start outlining, and arrive at answers.
Practice, practice, practice. Don't just spend your days b/t now and the exams memorizing. That only really works in Property.
― B.L.A.M., Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:50 (fifteen years ago) link
is that why i did best in property? i didn't practice shit.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:53 (fifteen years ago) link