that's fair to a point, and I can see why someone would prefer either. But the idea that Goodfellas is inherently better for reveling in the thuggish, criminal side rather than an immigrant dynasty feels as moralistic and arbitrary as Mr. Grey's reasons for acclaiming Casino and Shutter Island.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:27 (thirteen years ago) link
feel like morbs def has a point here, tho its maybe overstated, a lot of peoples love for the godfathers is on a 'arent these people magical' type level due to the flakey romanticism of the thing
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:30 (thirteen years ago) link
that's so weird to me
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i like 'the godfather' and 'goodfellas'
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:31 (thirteen years ago) link
everyone in the godfather is completely miserable
not sure a lot of people's Goodfellas love is any more considered
xpost
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:32 (thirteen years ago) link
no but godfather def has this 'family' thing that gives it a warm glow. i agree. and that might be dishonest. but it is why people love it so much. you want to be hanging out with these guys. you want to be tom hagen, the adopted member of the family.
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:33 (thirteen years ago) link
the sheen of power fascinates - while i certainly enjoy some godfathers feel like slocki has a strong point re the positive atributes of verisimilitude
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:34 (thirteen years ago) link
plenty of goodfellas fans want to hang out with those guys, some because they wish they got kick the shit out of people all the time
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:34 (thirteen years ago) link
YOU POPPED YOUR CHERRY!!!
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:35 (thirteen years ago) link
a lot of peoples love for the godfathers is on a 'arent these people magical' type level due to the flakey romanticism of the thing
This was certainly a trope in the public response to The Godfather 35 years ago; no one cares now.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:35 (thirteen years ago) link
the first half of goodfellas is like that, basically all warm and family-ish, but um then it changes. but because it's first-person, um, that kind of changes shit. 'the godfather' has a totally different attitude to its material.
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:36 (thirteen years ago) link
feel like i never see middle age dudes get all sparkly eyed reciting lines from goodfellas
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:37 (thirteen years ago) link
no, just college students
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:37 (thirteen years ago) link
no but godfather def has this 'family' thing that gives it a warm glow
The oldest brother's a sociopath, the middle one's a wuss, the youngest glowers. Meanwhile the sister is fucking Frank Sinatra. I never really felt the glow.
Maybe the glow was from the cannolis in the oven.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:37 (thirteen years ago) link
alfred people really care, they sure care for real, especially older italian type guys
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:38 (thirteen years ago) link
and yeah maybe we do like that warmth and people accept the romanticism, a bit
that's part of how films work, and why they resonate
someone alert the authorities
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:38 (thirteen years ago) link
if the goal is apparently to find a mob movie that doesn't make the mob glamorous, goodfellas aint it.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:38 (thirteen years ago) link
well ya, the whole POINT of goodfellas is what a great life these guys had, how untouchable they were, what the attraction was
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:39 (thirteen years ago) link
its like drug movies, whether you revel in the puke and DTs or suggest junkies are fun-loving saints, you're saying drugs are a BIG DEAL, that taking them gives you a great story.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:40 (thirteen years ago) link
the first godfather starts at a wedding. the second at a catholic bar mitzvah. there's tons of scenes of vito tenderly attending to his kids in 2. i mean, the family gets mad corrupted and fragmented, but dont tell me people dont dig on the family vibe. thats what really set it apart from your other gangster movies.
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:41 (thirteen years ago) link
I was going to say: Drugstore Cowboy flits in and out of romanticism really well.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Henry Hill: [narrating] Anything I wanted was a phone call away. Free cars. The keys to a dozen hideout flats all over the city. I bet twenty, thirty grand over a weekend and then I'd either blow the winnings in a week or go to the sharks to pay back the bookies. [Henry leaves the witness stand and speaks directly to the camera] Henry Hill: Didn't matter. It didn't mean anything. When I was broke, I'd go out and rob some more. We ran everything. We paid off cops. We paid off lawyers. We paid off judges. Everybody had their hands out. Everything was for the taking. And now it's all over.
can't believe henry hill doesn't 'learn something' at the end
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:42 (thirteen years ago) link
as a former punk rocker, i was appalled
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link
there's tons of scenes of vito tenderly attending to his kids in 2. i mean, the family gets mad corrupted and fragmented, but dont tell me people dont dig on the family vibe
But that's why, I think, Coppola uses the present-day stuff as counterpoint: the family feeling was brief and intense. Post-Vito it's all a sham, and probably always was. Because it's your dad's life at stake and because your oldest brother's a doofus, you're going to slowly assume control of the family. Not a heartwarming message.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link
gomorrah is a p good mob movie that doesnt romanticize the mob much. really at all.
though i think a lot of ppl around here hated it.
― max, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
oh for sure.
dont get me wrong, i agree.
but i still think people like to dwell on the warm family stuff.
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
people def vibe off the power of goodfellas, but theres an absence of romantic longing - also in godfather love theres an aspect of we all know and agree this is THE quality filmmaking isnt that great, which grates - feel like w/goodfellas theres more sheer delight
i dont think these problems totally indict the godfathers or anything, but they certainly spark suspicion that there might be something deeply lame going on
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
ya gomorrah rather aggressively tries to de-romanticize it.
i mean godfather is a fall from grace movie. vito's era is definitely seen as a golden age.
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Did Tommy tell you about my painting?
Look at this.
It's beautiful.
One dog goes one way andthe other goes the other.
One's facing east, the other west.
He's saying, "Whaddya want from me?"The guy's got a nice head of white hair.
Beautiful. The dog looks the same.
― chrisv2010, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link
gomorrah more like boremorrah
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link
longing for an era when both dogs went the same way
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:46 (thirteen years ago) link
*sniffle*
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:46 (thirteen years ago) link
canonical films with romantic longing arouse the suspicion they might be lame, gotcha
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:46 (thirteen years ago) link
"Don't you try to sell me your false bill of goods, Welles!"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
i didnt say that...?
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
just tryin to unpack the gfather's appeal a bit. and thats definitely a part of it.
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
There's a powerful documentary influence throughout "Goodfellas," and a lot of the camerawork and visual devices (freeze frames and title cards) make that lineage clear.
matt zoller seitz more like matt making up ignorant bullshit seitz
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry slock, was an xpost to ice cream people def vibe off the power of goodfellas, but theres an absence of romantic longing - also in godfather love theres an aspect of we all know and agree this is THE quality filmmaking isnt that great, which grates - feel like w/goodfellas theres more sheer delight
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
IM SRY DA CROUPIER THAT U R A SAD OLD ITALIAN TYPE GUY WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN CROSSES TO BARE HERE LISTEN TO THIS VIOLIN MUSIC
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
neither side of that Salon debate impressed me too greatly
xpost whatsamattayou
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:49 (thirteen years ago) link
"Lay off the drugs. They're turnin' your mind into mush."
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:49 (thirteen years ago) link
donnie brasco, not a great movie but not terrible, does well w this de-romanticising aspect imho - pacino sitting round in a slobby tracksuit, a penny-pinching leech and kinda stoopid w it
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:56 (thirteen years ago) link
the problem with chasing a film that successfully deromanticizes the mob is you're chasing a film that makes organized crime look boring and unpleasant. enjoy that ride!
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 13:59 (thirteen years ago) link
as far as the eras go the mob had more power in godfathers time and less in brascos w/goodfellas being in the middle - i dont particularly buy that they were ever as refined as the godfather but they were at that point a ridiculously prominent criminal enterprise, some say wired all the way up to the presidency - by the time brasco rolled around they were much diminished
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link
casino
― chrisv2010, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link
by the time brasco rolled around they were much diminished
thanks to the powerful investigative acumen of film critics
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link
'the godfather' is about the top men in one of the five families, 'goodfellas' not really. de niro and henry aren't even made men.
― l'avventura: pet detective (history mayne), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 14:03 (thirteen years ago) link