suppose you could say that depalma deconstructs the relationship between film and its audience, in that he's constantly interrogating "looking at" and "listening to" in his films (watched dressed to kill last night). it seems more like an artistic obsession than an intellectual investigation, but i'm not sure that's a make-or-break distinction when discussing works of art.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:40 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway, looking forward to ep 2 of walking dead, which i probably won't see for several weeks. wonder if it will ramp up or slack off in the inventive gore department.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link
that's where it gets sketchy - the line between the director being a critical intellectual and supporting an aesthetic goal can get mighty thin. depalma got all his voyeurism steez from hitchcock anyway.
xp
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:43 (thirteen years ago) link
The zombie movie version of Funny Games would have a five minute shot of zombies graphically eating someone slowly, after 45 minutes of slow shambling and long shots of flies taking off and landing on flesh. the hero had shot all the zombies in the head and the director ran the film back to let them have a second crack at it.
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought "Buffy" was a pretty good deconstruction of vampire mythology, for example. Like, its characters are fully aware of vampire mythology, even as the vampires don't always adhere to said mythology. And when the most mythological of all vampires shows up, the other vampires make fun of him for being a showoff.
In some ways, something like "The Devil's Rejects" is a deconstruction of ... something. Especially the way it wallows in pure "horror" for so long, only to briefly flip your sympathies when the antagonists are treated to the same torture and general unpleasantness as they formerly treated the ostensible protagonists. It twists the usual us vs. them dynamics into a nihilistic ambivalence
"Beetlejuice" is, I suppose, a clever deconstruction of ghost stuff, played for laughs.
Granted, I'm going by my own internalized definition of "deconstructed," wherein the characters are aware of genre conventions (at least Buffy and Beetlejuice) and generally use them to their advantage. Devil's Rejects I guess is just more generically subversive.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I stick to my statement above - "I don't think you can call anything that's meta or self-referential deconstructed" - deconstruction involves giving a genre a real acid bath, pointing out internal conflicts, forcing it to break down, and not just "hey I'm a vampire killer who knows about vampire movies".
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:49 (thirteen years ago) link
something like buffy is postmodern and hyperaware of its own conceits but if you use deconstruction as a description of aesthetics, I imagine it as producing something more aggressively antithetical to the viewer's needs and expectations
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:54 (thirteen years ago) link
the fourth indiana jones was way deconstructive in that case
― goole, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:56 (thirteen years ago) link
guess I needed to throw an "intentionally" in there
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 17:59 (thirteen years ago) link
depalma got all his voyeurism steez from hitchcock anyway.
dislike this criticism of depalma (no offense). he owes a lot to hitchcock, sure, but in films like blow out, dressed to kill, body double and femme fatale, he takes that voyeurism steez and runs so far over the horizon with it that it becomes something distinctly his.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I AM OFFENDED
tbh I like depalma more than I like hitch
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:05 (thirteen years ago) link
agree with edward III here. films like buffy, beetlejuice and the devil's rejects don't deconstruct their genres. they're merely explicitly aware of them and/or subversive about them. i mean, what does buffy have to say about vampire mythology (other than that it's silly and fun)? what does it attempt to show us about the guts of the genre that we didn't know going in? nothing. therefore it isn't really a deconstruction.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:05 (thirteen years ago) link
me too (xpost)
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:06 (thirteen years ago) link
oh hey super-primitive deconstruction: man with a movie camera
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:07 (thirteen years ago) link
so I reread the beginning of the thread and these 3 ominous premonitions sum up everything I didn't like about the show
The admittedly small number of issues I read didn't seem to either add anything significant to zombie mythology or have particularly interesting characters.
― A brownish area with points (chap), Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:02 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
zombie apocalypse is a great canvas for right wing/nra/libertarian types to express their i-told-you-so-liberal-faggits wish fullment on and i thought the books veered close to this territory too often for my reading comfort.
― MAX NOT FOR MOD (Roberto Spiralli), Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:43 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Why do people hate the comic but expect this to be good? Should I not even ask?
because i'm pretty sure kirkman has no idea how human relationships work, and everything reads like teenage melodrama. any writer would be an improvement.
― the parking garage has more facebook followers than my band (Jordan), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:46 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Man you guys have been *busy*!
many xxposts (since deconstruction is well covered lol) for contenderizer: re the question of wtf run down old hospital exterior with modern interior...this is a pretty common US phenomenon. Heck, it's a common Australian phenomenon too. Retrofitting is pretty commonplace, especially in older cities or places with old buildings. Sacramento for one. Was it more the type of building vs the interior that you're driving at?
Also I had hoped for a zombie horse myself when the zombies started feasting on deputy dawg's horsey, but alas, I guess the world isn't ready for that.
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Was it more the type of building vs the interior that you're driving at?
yeah, this. inside, it looked like a proper modern hospital. outside, it looked like some collapsing warehouse that they'd (lightly) dressed as a hospital so save money. discontinuity was striking. more bored nitpicking than a real complaint though.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:21 (thirteen years ago) link
question:
why did the zombies not eat him when he was lying prone in the hospital
― candid gamera (s1ocki), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:25 (thirteen years ago) link
i was bothered by the hospital exterior too, like "damn, i guess that hospital was abandoned years before the whole zombie thing"
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:26 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost Because the hospital zombies were all locked in the DO NOT DEAD INSIDE room.
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
That is a very interesting name for a room
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
he was in a coma and wasn't making any sound
xxxp
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
and the zombies failed in their attempts to organize a room-by-room search
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link
oh yeah, DON'T DEAD ENTER INSIDE
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Just out of curiousity, what "significant additions to zombie mythology" would ppl like to see added? That they're all secretly good at volleyball? That you can't feed them after midnight? That zombies on Bizarro Planet walk quickly and spit up body parts?
― Tub Girl Time Machine (Phil D.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:31 (thirteen years ago) link
yes that's exactly what we were thinking
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd like to see zombies done more like vampires; lucid predators who can plan and trap running prey etc
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link
That they can dance in formation imo
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link
also I want to read zombie poetry, as I'm sure it would be very touching
SPOILER (skip me)
.
thought the bit abt the guy trying to get up the nerve to shoot his zombie wife was very well done
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not being flippant -- it's a serious question! (xpost thank u Dan)
Not to go all meta-Capt. Rhodes/Day Of The Dead here, but they're fuckin' dead! Your options for "mythology" are pretty limited, to "How does one become a zombie?", "Can it be cured?", "How quickly do they move?", "Can they think?" and "How do you kill them?"
― Tub Girl Time Machine (Phil D.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, like I noted above, "World War Z" and I suppose "Land of the Dead" are the only two zombies stories I can think of that take place well after an outbreak. It'd be interesting to see a zombie movie about rebuilding/starting over. But I guess the dramatic narative might be too difficult to suss out.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:40 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont want any fuckin clever twilight-style twists on what a zombie is tbh
― candid gamera (s1ocki), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:40 (thirteen years ago) link
"clever"
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
ya ha
― candid gamera (s1ocki), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
"clever" = "mormon"
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:42 (thirteen years ago) link
How about zombies that start out slow, shambling monsters that eat flesh, but if they go too long without eating any their zombie metabolisms rev up, making them move faster and jerkier until they explode, infecting any living animal their effluvia touches? If they catch and eat something, it sates their systems and they cycle back down into slow shamblers.
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:42 (thirteen years ago) link
dunno about significant additions, but i would really like to see someone make a smart, gory zombie-plague movie that doesn't just use "it's a zombie movie ffs!" as a justification for whatever ridiculous shit the genre seems to demand. don't know that i've seen one yet. 28 days later came closest, but seemed to want to operate outside the genre in a way that bothered me.
suppose you could expand the mythology at this point by dropping all the bullshit pseudo-medical justification and going back to the supernatural.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Zombies are reanimated spirits trapped in their decaying bodies who cannot be freed until they devour their loved ones.
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I posted a list of recent films that have done something interesting with or expanded on the zombie apocalypse shtick, there's a lot of room to do interesting stuff if you don't slavishly limit yourself to the ground everyone else has thoroughly shambled over
les revanants - what if everybody who was dead came back to life, and they didn't want to eat us?
pontypool - language is a virus from outer space
deadgirl - two teenage boys find female zombie chained in basement of abandoned building, bad decisions ensue
the signal - a variation on the crazies-type apocalypse movie, but is way funnier and scarier than your average zombie flick because you don't know what to expect next
the end of the line - ditto
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
hi dere's 1st idea is good. or start fast when fresh, devolve into slow shamblers over time or without blood. really nail down the mechanisms of infection (if you wanna keep on with the bullshit pseudo-medical angle).
edit: god, and that second suggestion! someone should make that fucking movie.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
most of these films I listed are not as "accomplished" as the walking dead, but they are also not as bland
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
There was an online comic strip that did a weird twist on zombies where they were technically still alive but not able to regenerate their bodily systems (pulmonary, cardiovascular, muscular, etc) without consuming working live tissue; the smart ones had to eat a lot of brains to remain smart.
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:47 (thirteen years ago) link
you are very adept at producing scenarios for movies that you'd never ever watch
― the american car is a bus and a car for all americans (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:49 (thirteen years ago) link
pontypool is great! really nice twist on the mythology. was impressed but repulsed by deadgirl. accomplished, but i didn't enjoy it much.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:50 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd read the novelization, though.
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:50 (thirteen years ago) link
(also I'm much more likely to watch a zombie flick than a slasher flick)
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:54 (thirteen years ago) link
i used to think living in a zombie run world would be kinda cool, until i had a nightmare about it and realised it would be the most awful terrifying shit ever.
― F-Unit (Ste), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:54 (thirteen years ago) link
I was serious about zombies dancing in formation fwiw
― That is the stench of tyranny (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:55 (thirteen years ago) link
I am amused by the idea of a zombie version of Twilight! I should write it up so I can start making piles of money like Stephenie Meyer.
― romoing my damn eyes (Nicole), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 18:57 (thirteen years ago) link