TS: Pavement / Smashing Pumpkins

I don't understand what they mean, and I could really give a fuck...

Where's the Stone Temple Pilots option?

Are they foxy to you?

pumpkins are embarrassing these days but so was the pavement reunion tour. pumpkins all the way

I've recently listened to Gish for the first time in ages. the pretty songs always make me wish they had stayed psych and became the American Bevis Frond

pavement will win this and I will never understand what awful lurks inside a nerd's mind

― homeless romantic (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:45 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

otm

Pumpkins. They may have hit lower lows, but they have much higher highs.

pavement reunion gig at Brixton was one of the best nights of my life! As was the show they did supporting Sonic Youth at the same venue way back when. Dunno what that says about my life. Nothing good probably. Oh well. Pavement Is Rad!

Pumpkins, but that doesn't mean I like them much.

pumpkins 4 lyfe

Pumpkins by millions and trillions of miles, no contest.

the Pumpkins 'reunion' show I saw last year was pretty dispiriting overall, i'll give the Pavement fans a point in that column at least

Pumpkins easily. Pavement fucking sucks

― van smack, Wednesday, February 9, 2011 12:51 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark

pavement roolz, pumpkins droolz

it would be kinda a cool reality show if malkmus and corgan had to trade band members and write and record and album

haha yeah. corgan all like "no, i do not want off key moog on this song, bob! you're fired!"

corgan with westie drumming would be . . . interesting, but doesn't he do everything else himself anyway?

yeah i mean in an imaginary world where the pumpkins were still kinda of an actual band and corgan didn't play anything....

jimmy chamberlain getting all Tool drummer on a shambling malkmus song...darcy nodding out in the corner

Pumpkins are super annoying. Pavement wins by default and I do like their first 2 albums.

i was trying to remember which simpsons episode they were both in but it was sonic youth. i like song 'cherub rock' a lot, the guitars are cool.

not voting

Definitely Pumpkins. Used to think it was cheesy but this song has been haunting me the last few days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd9Ke6pSu3s

don't they both do everything else themselves?

Pavement by a mile.

pavement's hit/miss ratio is so much better.

i think i voted pumpkins just because i happened to spend all week listening to them but range life >>> anything pumpkins did

Pavement beats Billy Corgan to death with a skateboard

the pretty songs always make me wish they had stayed psych and became the American Bevis Frond

man this is so true. I like 2/3rds of Gish and maybe half of Siamese Dream, plus Starla and a couple other oddities but ugh when they tried to RAWK it was just abominable. and then there was all the goth silliness. Also one of the absolute worst live shows/acts I have ever seen. Pavement and the Pumpkins both had a weird laziness/contempt-for-their-audience thing goin on in their live shows but Malkmus was so much cleverer and funny about it. Billy came out onstage and played like a spastic, self-absorbed 13 yo and then berated the audience for not appreciating him enough. horrible.

Corgan is a flaming asshole toward everyone he ever works with. Malkmus agreed to a reunion tour he didn't need to do just to help a bro out financially. Pavement FTMFW.

otoh corgan wrote records that went platinum x10000000000 so he didn't have to be in the position to help a bro out, because his bros were rich

I sorta doubt James Iha is currently rich

or maybe he is, I dunno. did he get songwriting/publishing credits?

had the pumpkins quit after siamese dream and were billy not a tremendous asshole then . . . maybe

on some things.

also you spend all yr money on heroin and also being a dick - tough luck. other pavement bros were bros, more likely to be dudes you want to help out when they need it

pavement

i am sorry for the infinite sadness of people who do not get why

the pavement reunion show was grebt but seeing spiral was kind of sad

stevon malkie and the infinite slackness

Yeah Spiral looks like he could be everyone else's dad. Maybe not Westie.

pumpkins had the better drummer, i'll give em that

i wouldn't doubt if smashing pumpkins was a kiss-type deal where billy was the band financially and the other members were just paid employees

Well, weren't they? Corgan boasted, half sheepishly, that he played all the guitar and a lot of the bass on those early records.

yeah I thought that was the deal

The Pumpkins got better after the shaved head! Funny how some Pumpkins fans don't remember their early days, when they weren't bad at all, but probably kind of "sucked" by stadium rock terms.

this is madness

(voted Walt Mink)

I have never gotten what everybody thinks is so special about Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming. was completely surprised a few years ago to find he's entered the legions of "drum heroes" at Guitar Center, for ex.

I mean he's not bad, but I have a similar head-scratching reaction whenever a drummer praises U2's rhythm section

yeah i just wasn't 100 percent sure but that was my impression

plus obv they wouldn't get songwriting or publishing, but if he played everything than d'arcy and james wouldn't get ANY royalties right?

just the gig money then, but yeah i bet they made remarkably little for being in what was p much the biggest band on earth for a minute

(voted Walt Mink)

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahahahaha

now walt mink those dudes could fuckin' PLAY man

spiral looked like paul simon (now), while sm looked suitably indie rock-god-ish

i know i've said this elsewhere on ilm but jimmy chamberlain is a boring boring drummer

he's no kenny aronoff

Iha apparently has enough money to run a studio and a boutique label so I guess he isn't living out of a dumpster just yet

Pretty sure Iha has a couple songwriting credits on Mellon Collie.

nah SP are more like a great-looking big budget sci-fi flick that's ultimately kind of vapid and in love with itself but still pretty enjoyable on a visceral level and respectable for some of its craftsmanship

sooo... Fifth Element?

Kinda, but there's not a trace of any FIFTH ELEMENT tongue-in-cheek in SP. Enfold a fourteen year-old's sense that everyday's-the-end-of-the-world-melodrama-a-dozen-exclamation-marks and you might be close.

p sure the emptiness is loneliness quote is supposed to be tongue in cheek...

My thirteen year-old soul knows that every word that left Corgan's mouth meant what it said, nary a trace of irony.

Corgan is one lyricist where i have absolutely no idea to what degree he really means it and how much is calculated or ironic or condescending to the audience

if Yo La Tengo, GBV, Liz Phair, Moonshake, Bailter Space, Bardo Pond, The Fall, Superchunk, Bettie Serveert, Couch, Helium, and Unsane weren't every one of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavement

Whoa whoa guys let's walk away before somebody says something they're gonna regret and not be able to take back.

xp well he did release a book of poetry so that's one clue imo

So did Jewel, that really doesn't get us anywhere.

? what about Liz Phair, Phil ?

Corgan's a straight shooter, yes. Don't much care for him beyond, y'know, SIAMESE-DREAM-AND-THAT-ONE-SONG-ON-THE-SINGLES-SOUNDTRACK-4-EVA, but I've never detected a bit of lyrical indirection on his part.

I mean even assuming we're restricting ourselves to Liz's Matador output, that still leaves us most of Whitechocolatespaceegg to contend with, of which "Cut Your Hair" and "Range Life" alone are better.

So did Jewel, that really doesn't get us anywhere.

― All you have to do is combine 1 to 7 with (a) to (d) and you should ha (Phil D.), Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:14 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

hahaha i think that actually gets us a lot of places!

Let's hope this all leads to a convoluted New-York-School-Poets analogy.

Actually Phil you're kinda right...haven't heard much of WCSE but CR, CR is a better album than Whip Smart (though I'll take the best songs from the latter over the best from the former in a heartbeat)...I guess I just thought Exile is _that_ good that it could take the handicap of her subsequent output and still comes out better than Pavement...

...and it would, if it weren't for Gary Young, he is easily the most appealing part of the Pavement mythos. The rest is proto-Anco horse-hockey

in short: "Malkmus? More like Chalkmus, amirite?"

proto-anco? do i even want to know?

I don't

horses play hockey now?

I've said too much!

no way, bob nastanovich was a riot in concert. guy was non-stop energy, even ambushing & gagging one of the crew guys at one point.

pavement are one of those bands - probably because they're so normal, and thus serve as sort of a blank slate onto which people can project whatever they're feeling at the time - about which people have these crazy emotional irrationalities and theories about. proto-anco? what the hell does this mean? your problem is probably with their canonization, dude, not their music. they were just a fuckin indie rock band

i mean, they were a great indie rock band that wrote great songs, but come on

yeah I don't really see any similarities with Animal Collective. they're both composed of white guys, I guess?

guys! i don't want to know!

a huge part of the appeal of pavement for me was basically considering it the band me & my friends would sound like if we were all even capable enough to form one. and that this band didn't suck.. it was like the idealistic version of one.

bullshit fuckin poll

lol

despite how i squeal i am still just a mouse in a wheel

― some dude, Wednesday, February 9, 2011 10:18 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark

this was great!

credit goes to whatever kid my brother was friends with in high school that i heard it from originally

bullshit fuckin poll

yeah Pavement should have won in a Reagan/FDR-type 49-state landslide.

What director would you want to work with?

At one point I almost worked with Darren Aronofsky. It didn't work out, but it was nothing bad, just didn't happen. I'd love to work with him because I think he really gets it, music wise. Scorsese. I don't think he knows I exist, but he has such an incredibly intuitive understanding of how to put music in film.

I think about that scene in "Mean Streets" with Harvey Keitel all the time, where the camera is fixed to him as he rolls into the bar and the Rolling Stones are playing, it's magic.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, I mean as a musician, I die for that moment. It just doesn't get any better than that. I would also love to just sit and listen to him break down a scene from his perspective. And Tarantino too.

What film would you live inside of, if you could?

I've been living in the film "Andrei Rublev" by (Andrei) Tarkovsky for about 15 years (laughs). It's a beautiful film about art, about being an artist. It's set in, you know, 1600's Russia, or sometime equally bleak.

http://www.ifc.com/news/2011/07/billy-corgan-and-the-fools-journey-pt-2.php

I'm still upset this wasn't a draw.

Round 2: Neil Hagerty vs. Pumpkins

https://twitter.com/TheHowlingHex/status/820748333094502400

hmm... Billy is not a Trump supporter

is that what Alex Jones told you

oh, please. the only times I've ever listened or watched Infowars have been when Billy was a guest. he's never said anything hateful or discriminatory on there, it's all very hippy dippy spiritual stuff. and yeah, he's bought gold in bulk before, distilled water etc... he's a bit cuckoo. but not hateful. he's a contrarian and a conspiracy theorist, can't deny that.