Going To Law School

i think it is better for me to think people aren't that smart. because i think i'm really smart and when they tell me everyone is just as smart as me i go UH OH but as long as i think they aren't that smart (like when they are acting like bros and saying "hey, bro, you gonna get drunk this weekend?" "yeeeahh bro!" "alright, bro!") i feel ok. i should go do work now bye

Someone may have addressed this, but... I, too, am on track to become a labor lawyer. If your school offers any labor/employment law classes, take them. I work at a union-side law firm right now and my hiring was contingent on my having taken labor law. You aren't foreclosed from being a labor attorney if you don't take labor and employment classes, but it will make you more attractive to potential employers. The most important thing, I think, is to get some experience, either working for a labor law firm or in some sort of public interest worker rights capacity, presuming you want to work union/worker side.

Oh and also? Labor lawyers don't make much more than public interest attorneys. At least the good guys don't. Sorry.

Also, my philosphy for second and third year was to take classes that a) were labor and employment related and b) interesting because look, I'm tired of law school and I will not sit in a class of 100 people to listen to someone drone on about secured transactions, nor will I read because just thinking the words "secured transactions" gives me a headahce. A class of 13 people discussing public sector labor law or critical race theory, though? I'm totally into it. Given how stupid expensive law school is, I don't want to waste my money taking a class that I won't attend or care about. But that's just me.

xpost i didn't think they made a whole lot either. the idea of secured transactions makes me want to PUKE but i am all over critical race theory. i guess we'll seeeeeeeee

I should clarify - at least not to start. You can make like $70k once you make partner or make your way up to lead in-house counsel for a union (a strong union at least, not if you work for like, the Wobblies). But starting salaries for union side attorneys in Chicago run from $35 - $50k, which, with $150k in debt or thereabouts is kind of alarming. If your school has any kind of LRAP, you might be better off doing public interest law for the required period of time. You can do employment-related public interest stuff if you want to move into labor law when you meet the requirements for loan forgiveness.

Yes. Career choices are as varied as those who would make them.

Nope.

I have mediocre grades, but will likely score in the low to mid 170s on the LSAT and have a few years of work experience. I'm pretty handy with the essays and have a couple of good recs lined up. So I know I can get into a fairly high-level school if not top 10. I'm not wildly enthused about lawyering and the law, but I do have a law-related job and sometimes find it relatively interesting.

I'm not a hugely driven person and would generally like to have time for other things in my life beside my job - particularly music, but I would still like some challenge in my life.

So the question is, with a degree from a top-notch, if not top-10, law school, is it realistic to expect to be able to find a good-paying (like at high-five/low-six figure), moderately interesting that isn't insanely demanding? Or is this just a fantasy?

however, i reckon it would be pretty hard to get through a law degree, particularly at a top 10 school where the student body might be highly competitive, if you weren't really into it... and if the US legal education system is anything like Australia, with more graduates than legal grad positions, poor marks in your law degree heavily restricts your choices about where you go after you graduate.

My understanding is that the "isn't insanely demanding" bit is a total fantasy.

I can't imagine looking myself in the mirror every morning if I was still in the IP division of a big pharma company. Soul-deadening stuff, for real.

and will be starting (STARTING) at 135k when she graduates next year from the U of MN. debt won't be an issue.

law school is insanely demanding, yes, but if you suck it up and work for the Man, you'll make bags of money and pay of your education fairly quickly. alternately, a law degree doesn't necessarily mean actually working for a law firm, or even in law. loads of people get law degrees and never end up practicing.

(And is it realistic to think I can write a good essay when I can't even seem to put a sentence together? Gah!)

^^^ this could be a problem though. you know that there's, like, a LOT of writing in law school right?

This is enough information for me to say, "Then don't go." But why stop there?

will likely score in the low to mid 170s on the LSAT

How do you know this?

and have a few years of work experience.

Unless it's extremely fascinating, specialized, or famous nobel-prize winning type work experience, this doesn't matter.

So I know I can get into a fairly high-level school if not top 10.

No offense, and I only know you through this website and you seem like a very smart and funny person, but how do you know this? When you are competing for positions in top ten schools are are competing against people with excellent grades, lots of references, and high LSAT scores. Not to mention nepotism and name recognition. You might get in, but unless your recs happen to be tenured professors at said top ten law schools or there is a library on campus named after your father, there is really no guarantee about this.

I'm not wildly enthused about lawyering and the law

Then, seriously, do not go to law school.

but I do have a law-related job and sometimes find it relatively interesting.

Your law-related job is not the same as law school or being a lawyer, even if you're doing paralegal work.

I'm not a hugely driven person . . . So the question is, with a degree from a top-notch, if not top-10, law school, is it realistic to expect to be able to find a good-paying (like at high-five/low-six figure), moderately interesting that isn't insanely demanding? Or is this just a fantasy?

You've got three possible paths going to law school: 1) bust your ass night and day to put yourself in the top 10%, get on law review, get summer associate positions at big firms, get involved in lots of extra curriculars of whatever sort and basically be the type of go-getter, 80 hour a week-type guy that the $135k/year firms are going to want to hire; 2) do enough work to stay in the top quarter but let your passion for a particular area of law drive you into the types of jobs and activities that are going to make you the happy in your legal career and make considerably less money; 3) slack for three years, hate law school the entire time, wish you'd done something, anything else because now you're looking at triple-digit debt and you have to practice law, and eventually work doing something you really don't care about, which becomes just another daily grind job and isn't making the mega bucks you were hoping for.

The first one is out, because you're not a particularly driven person. The second one is out, because you don't really care about law school or a law job. That leaves number three, and if you have a fairly interesting law-related job right now, why go through the stress and debt of law school only to come out slightly worse off than you are now?

* Third year law student grappling with the nosy bastards at the character and fitness committee, trying not to think about the two days of essay and bubble testing that await me at the end of July.

How do you know this?

Well, here I have to defend myself. I have a second job as an LSAT instructor, and I consistently score between 170-175 on practice tests.

Otherwise everything you're telling me sounds about right. Are you in law school now or are you a lawyer? When I explain these things to my wife I'd like to be able to say "A woman on ILX, who does ---, told me."

(And is it realistic to think I can write a good essay when I can't even seem to put a sentence together? Gah!)

^^^ this could be a problem though. you know that there's, like, a LOT of writing in law school right?

-- gbx (polarbea...), September 26th, 2006.

Here I was just referring to my garbled post. Writing is pretty natural for me, actually.

Okay, that makes sense - and I didn't intend to come across accusatorily, so I'm really sorry if I did. My understanding is that actual LSAT scores remain pretty true to practice test scores. My final score was within one point of the score I consistently got on practice tests.

I'm a third year law student who went back to law school at the ripe old age of 31. I would classify myself as a "number two" above. I spent a brief period of time as a number one and decided that maintaining the necessary level of hard work required to remain in that category would kill me. I'm a passionate labor and employment do-gooder, anyway, and nobody cares about your grades in that field as long as your loyal to the cause. Oh I also go to a second tier law school (I think we're in the 80s or 90s).

Going to law school as an adult, and a married one (I am also married, no kids, three cats) presents a whole different passel of challenges that straight-from-undergrad-ers don't have to worry about over and above the regular difficulties of law school. I'm guessing you've got friends and a social life and hobbies and those will all take a serious hit if you go to law school no matter how hard to try to avoid it. Then there's the sad truth of how completely annoying the majority of your classmates will be just by virtue of their utter lack of life experience... Or maybe that's just me. I am a pretty grumpy old bitch sometimes.

Anyway, my first instinct when someone says they don't care too much about law or being a lawyer but want to go to law school is to dive tackle them out of the way of the onrushing bus because the bottom line is this: law school is three years of intensive study of the law, leading to a job that is fully immersed in the law (with some extremely limited exceptions generally available only to those with outstanding academic performance or an existing network of connections within a specific field). A JD isn't an all-purpose degree. Going to law school without really being interested in the law is like going to a very expensive, difficult, and stressful cooking school without really having any interest in cooking.

It's my happy place.

This is what I'm worried about. Am I looking at four...no, wait...eigh--twelve years of no hobbies? :/

ahahahahaha

She's not *making* me do anything, but she keeps saying stuff like "You're so good at this stuff. You love to argue and over-analyze things. Why don't you just do it?" as though it were all as easy as taking the LSAT. So here I am going to ILX for back-up.