medical school

numbness/tingling in my pinky. and it's...definitely more in the wrist/forearm.

i noticed tingling up my arm during the water polo game - i seemed to be irritating my ulnar nerve as i was playing, then the next day this happened

If you're numb in the pinky (and maybe the outside edge of your ring finger too?) and weak in wrist flexion (as used in a jump shot) and grip strength (which involves the intrinsic muscles of the hand), you've most likely got an ulnar neuropathy. The ulnar nerve is the "funny bone" at the elbow. It can get pinched at the elbow or at the wrist (or rarely, between them). The nerve is probably being damaged at the elbow if you've noticed some weakness in the forearm.

The most common reason for ulnar nerve damage is compression or stretch, either from resting the elbow for a long time on something hard (like a desk) or sleeping with the arm folded under you. I'm not sure how playing water polo would damage the nerve, but if it was already irritated/affected it might tingle or feel weird when you flex/extend your elbow.

Lots of other things could mimic this picture, but that'd be the most common explanation for what you're describing.

Protecting the compressed / stretched nerve allows it to heal itself, which can take some time. This came up awhile ago on the carpal tunnel thread.

(Note: I am a real doctor but the above is not official medical advice for you, use at your own risk for recreational purposes only.)

i actually misreported a bit - my grip isn't weak like it was last year; i can still hold my wrist firm on a backhanded volley in tennis and can still palm a basketball - two things I couldn't do w/ last year's injury. i think the ulnar nerve is probably the culprit too, though, it just seems to be presenting differently this year.

i can still hold my wrist firm on a backhanded volley in tennis

...this would be the work of extensors, no?

If you're numb in the pinky (and maybe the outside edge of your ring finger too?) and weak in wrist flexion (as used in a jump shot) and grip strength (which involves the intrinsic muscles of the hand), you've most likely got an ulnar neuropathy. The ulnar nerve is the "funny bone" at the elbow. It can get pinched at the elbow or at the wrist (or rarely, between them). The nerve is probably being damaged at the elbow if you've noticed some weakness in the forearm.

I had asked about this on the other thread and it's definitely what I had. I can't remember what it was called but the doc called it something similar to but not exactly carpal tunnel. I think it was some other syndrome. I stopped sleeping with my arms bent under my head and it has mostly gone away.

GBS - maybe. I really really want to but it is a very daunting thought. I'd have to do a lot of pre reqs and I don't know how I would actually go about it logistically but I'm sort of toying with the idea of maybe doing it very slowly and just accepting that it would take a long time but be worth it in the end. Might also look into PA programs as that would be at least a little less time.

Cubital tunnel syndrome, maybe?

The ulnar nerve can also get pinched in the wrist in Guyon's canal, but that doesn't cause weakness inn the forearm.

Tennis backhand volley is mostly wrist extensors, which are radial nerve innervated.

...

Several people in my class started med school in their 30s. I was 27, median starting age was 23-24.

Being a little older is quite helpful in terms of having a broader perspective about patient care, the role of doctors in society, etc. The hardest part of it is doing the first year or two of residency with (possibly/probably) more commitments to the outside world. Depending on where you're at in terms of a relationship, having kids, buying a house, etc, being ridiculously busy and tired and in debt for several years in a row can be a huge challenge. I don't exactly regret the time I spent doing other things before med school, but there certainly were times in residency where I wished it was over with already so I could get on with the rest of my life. Of course you could always do a shorter residency -- quite a few of the older med students I know opted for a 2 yr family med residency plus a 3rd year of anesthesia, ER, or what have you.

Yes! Cubital Tunnel Syndrome! :)

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's definitely interesting to hear from someone who has gone through it.

Cubital tunnel syndrome: the forgotten tunnel syndrome (along with tarsal tunnel syndrome)

I decided I wanted to go to med school shortly after I was in grad school (to do something entirely other), but I wasn't totally SURE I wanted to do it (the whole story takes like 45 minutes to tell properly, it is full of ridiculousness), but I figured I would sign up for an MCAT prep course to see if that'd be OK, and then sign up for the MCAT once I felt like I had a chance to do pretty OK at it, and from there just see how it went. I've heard other stories of people shadowing a doctor or volunteering in a hospital to slowly feel out whether they really wanted to do it.

There's a couple ways to take care of the prereqs. There's a handful of places that have year-long intense post-baccalaureate programs that cram in all the pain of organic chemistry et al. There are also less organized, but also at-your-own-speed options through university extension programs. I had been a pre-med in undergrad and had put like 95% of the stuff behind me, but I wanted to add a little extra stuff to my transcript, so I ended up taking undergrad statistics at UC Davis the summer I lived in NorCal and had no real job to prevent me from driving an hour each way four times a week, then a couple quarters of extra biochemistry night courses at UCLA Extension once I moved back down to LA. This way tends to be cheaper (UCLA Extension was like $500 a course for me, whereas I think if I had needed to go do everything, there was some other place in Southern California, either USC or one of the Claremont schools, that had like a $15,000 intensive year). This is also a good way if you're kinda-unsure and don't know that you definitely want to commit a dedicated year and a lot of money towards the strange, epic journey that is trying to get into medical school.

If your GPA sucks there's also additional post-bacc programs that are designed specifically to give you something to say "OK I was bad at physics as an undergrad, but NOW I am taking classes with med students and doing very well"; my school has a "Special Masters in Physiology" thing where you take like half of the first year courses with the first year med students. These are also expensive, but they do seem to work pretty well if you can fight off a horde of your fellow students.

I already have an MA in Women's Health but the program was administered through a sociology dept so it didn't have a clinical focus. That said I did take a couple classes that might count towards preeqs and my GPA from that program was excellent which can't hurt. Also, I did some volunteering/shadowing at a hospital prior to entering that program so I am pretty sure that I would love the actual work. Also, in the job I currently have I work for 3 Harv Med School faculty members and if I play my cards right could probably get some good recommendations from them. Current job also offers tuition reimbursement which might cover some of these classes so I feel like all of these things put me a pretty good position to consider this as an actual possibility. We'll see what happens but it's definitely something I've been thinking about. A lot.

Some more ?progressive med schools are light on the need for pre-reqs and MCAT, and tend to favor older applicants with good communication skills and experience/education in care-related fields. In Canada, McMaster University (the place that introduced PBL to med ed) has this approach; there may be others in the same vein south of the border.

It is Match Day 2011! Which means one thing for the class of 2012...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqMiigy92qU

http://img225.imageshack.us/i/20644180536215564524110.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/i/20644180536215564524110.jpg/

hahaha

lol I'm paranoid that I have schizoid personality disorder

i actually know a kid in pharm school who is a lot like that haha

what is the right answer? b?

Yeah it is OCPD.

The stereotype personality disorder of med students is OCPD (since we are mostly all ridiculous perfectionists), although I had a Psych resident who said the inflexibility associated with OCPD made it really really difficult to actually be a successful functioning med student if that were the case. Like, you could probably do OK 1st and 2nd year, but then 3rd year rolls around and constantly being all "No it is cool, residents and attendings, I am going to do it my way" without getting pulled aside.

She did mention that Narcissistic Personality Disorder does show up in medicine occasionally, though.

you don't say.

I am sure I felt this way about second year also, but finishing third year (which I did today!) feels like such an enormous thing. Like, today I know what I want to do, and I know that I will be at least basically competent at doing it. It is a delightful feeling.

"what you want to do" = a specialty?

congrats btw! i'm 4/6 thru pharm school

i saw this in my google reader about md/phds btw. not read it but maybe of interest.

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2011_06_17/caredit.a0900127

C-L: what are you going into?

Neurology.

Great choice :)

Hey, I should ask a real neurologist: so are there any particular programs you'd recommend? I basically at this point have a list of places (most of the Western U.S., Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa, Virginia/DC, and some varying amount of Texas and North Carolina) I'm gonna apply to for no better reason than "I could live in that place, and I heard someone say a nice thing about their program once". It is an inexact science, although I figure I'll not actually know what the actual best place is until I interview.

I'm Canadian; I only know the American programs by reputation.

Famous places especially for neuro in those areas: Mayo, Iowa, WUSTL, Baylor. There must be others, thats just off the top of my head. I'm sure any decent sized school will have a fairly solid neuro program. Applying to places where you actually want to live is a good idea. Also recommend you choose a program in large part because their residents seem happy or at least sane. That's what I did and it worked out OK.

Minnesota is nice, and the residents seemed pleased with the program, by all accounts.

btw i'm on the five-year program, so residency isn't a "thing" for me until next year, but i'm leaning a lot more towards general practice right now

I will try to keep track of the match-stravaganza on this thread.

oh please do!

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/07/13/267427/health-care-professional-earnings/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+matthewyglesias+%28Matthew+Yglesias%29

173k a year...is not enough?

to pay back your student loans before your own kids are in college? no, not really

"In 2010, the median debt at graduation was $150,000 at public institutions, $180,000 at private, and $160,000 combined." Yes, $173k a year is enough to pay off that debt in 10ish years, gimme a break.

someone who lives semi-frugally could do it in less than 10

so I mean unless you have a genius kid who goes to college at age 9, I'm pretty sure 173k a year is 'enough'

you can practice in fairbanks, alaska

Yeah, less than 10 is doable too. At 10 years, 6.5% interest, $180k loan, you're looking at $2k loan payments a month. Say your gross pay on $173k is $90k; you're still looking at $7500 a month. Paying $2k a month is totally doable.

it would be sooooo good for the USA's educational system & financial outlook if we'd get doctor salaries & teacher salaries at about the same level, as they are in France.

I have family friends who are doctors near paris.

they have nice houses.

so do teachers there!

it would be sooooo good for the USA's educational system & financial outlook if we'd get doctor salaries & teacher salaries at about the same level, as they are in France.

― Euler, Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:34 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

i can't see this ever happening

well, i can see doctor salaries coming down, but i can't see teacher salaries going up significantly

Teacher salaries in the USA aren't *that* bad, so I'd be happy enough with doctor salaries coming down to closer to that level. Of course we have to fix malpractice costs & medical school costs to make that happen.

yeah med school being subsidized is something that really needs to happen. it would attract better candidates imo

in France med school is essentially free

Teacher salaries in the USA aren't *that* bad

teacher salaries in urban schools are too low for the work required imo.

in France they kiss on Main Street

xp yes you're right & this is always the catch with doctor salaries in the USA, because they work such long hours & are on call...we also could use a lot more doctors to make up for letting doctors work less, but the AMA keeps the supply artificially low by limiting the number of accredited med schools, for the purpose of keeping doctor salaries high.

everything in the US is really expensive

AMA keeps the supply artificially low by limiting the number of accredited med schools, for the purpose of keeping doctor salaries high.

yeah this is basically what it all sits on

everything in the US is really expensive

not gas and cheap pieces of plastic