Excelsior the book

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I have the perfect way to get J0hn back. I'm just going to post what I think he'd have said on every thread, until he can't contain himself any longer and storms back in saying 'THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK ABOUT HEIDEGGER YOU FUCK!'

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha momus and j0hn fights are the best

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I keep hoping and praying for the Mountain Goats/Momus tour.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Worlds would implode.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

this is one of the saddest aspects of J0hn leaving, really, Momus threads will become so much less interesting...

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Unless he really gets into this playing J0hn thing and carries on both ends of the argument himself, and becomes completely unhinged.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Out of curiosity, how does anyone (like, umm, Tep) think there's any way to fudge this, legality-wise? Reprinting, without permission, any substantive portion of a copyrighted work just isn't allowed; especially when it's then made available for sale. There are a lot of things -- brief quotes, attributed chunks, criticism, parody, &c -- that are fair use, but printing up hundreds of pages of copyrighted material and putting a price tag on it seems pretty clearly indefensible to me, legally speaking.

Jess, the key part of your sentence = "on ILX." We are all of us aware that loads of people can read what we write on ILX. Some of us would prefer to state very clearly, right now and for future reference, that we do not necessarily wish that material to be reproduced outside the place where we originally put it. Especially for sale.

(I've just remembered something that saddens me: J0hn actually did this same thing once, didn't he? Posting an ILX thread over to LP2J and then coming back to ask if anyone minded.)

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:29 (nineteen years ago) link

now THAT would be greatness; fragmentation of the self ahoy (Momus do you like Pessoa?)

(xpost w/ nabisco)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link

are you kidding? by the end of the year, momus and gareth will be living at john's house: keeping him up by skating and listening to noize. this is just the beginning. there has to be some pics of john at the upland skatepark from wayback.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link

nitsuh i understand that, but i have a feeling what's underpinning most people's negative reaction to the book is not a feeling they're being swindled out of money that should "rightfully" be theirs or whatever, but that they just don't want ilx stuff to "leave the internet" for whatever reason.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus do you like Pessoa?

He is merely one of my 83 identities.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry, 'he is merely 83 of my 83 identities'.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

No, 'he is merely 83 of my 166 identities'.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

J0hn: 'Momus you fail to take account of Whitman's 'I contain multitudes'.'

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link

would anyone object to June 23rd, 2004 being stricken from the ILX record entirely?

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:35 (nineteen years ago) link

That's exactly it, Jess! I just like knowing, when I post something on here, that it's going to stay here unless I say otherwise. Anyone can come here and see it, fine, but I don't want anyone else taking it and putting it in some other context.

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought J0hn had announced his intentions early on in the thread (and well before it was published in LPTJ) but I might be misremembering.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

i suppose i just feel funny assigning "ownership" to all the pointless bullshit i have posted to ilx over the last three years

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link

for only $5 american, you can inherit my entire ilx "legacy"

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link

*hides 400 copies of Poor Strongo's Almanac*

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link

"when kneed in the groin on a full moon, plant your beets"

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link

the subtitle is Can I Borrow A Feeling? of course. and your face is on the cover.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:40 (nineteen years ago) link

for only $5 american, you can inherit my entire ilx "legacy"

$1 gets you all of the "I despair for humanity" posts.
$1 gets you all of the "Matos probably thinks this" posts.
$1 gets you all of the "OH! MY POOR EYES!" posts.
$1.99 gets you the photo with the Teddy bear.
A penny for your thoughts.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, that's right, Causistry, that's how he got all those posts: the whole thing started out all "I am going to copy this over" and then we all began vying for inclusion.

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link

all proceeds go to Dizzee's Kids

(x-post)

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link

J0hn gave advanced warning. And didn't actually post it on LPTJ until two months after the thread.

"(if anybody's interested, I really will finish this tomorrow, will probably both post it here & to LPTJ - warning, it'll probably also include why "The World's Greatest" is also quite triffic)

-- J0hn Darn1elle, June 15th, 2003."

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Out of curiosity, how does anyone (like, umm, Tep) think there's any way to fudge this, legality-wise? Reprinting, without permission, any substantive portion of a copyrighted work just isn't allowed; especially when it's then made available for sale.

I really, really don't want to get into a legality discussion. Let me make that clear up front. It's mostly because my understanding of copyright law is very case-specific, in the "please can you call legal and ask them before you make me change this" sense of "case" and very much not in the "Sparkwood vs Twenty-One" sense of "case." Slightly more than half of what I've published has sparked a fair use discussion with editorial; I think I know less about it now than I did before I ever dealt with it.

It's partly because one of the things I've been told in times like that is that the relevant rulings tend not to be as clear as either side would like, once you try to generalize away from the specifics of a prior case.

I don't like talking out of my hat, and I don't like huge discussions where hats are all anyone has to talk out of, which is the kind of thing "the internet and fair use" easily leads to.

But with all that in mind -- in other words, if you disagree, all I'm going to do is say "Okay" -- my short answer is that I think just about anything can be fudged at least a little, when it comes to copyright law.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:48 (nineteen years ago) link

(I kind of left out the how, after I erased the medium-length answer and replaced it with the short one. Grumble. Well, I guess the "how" is simply because "this example is a subset of 'copyright law in general,' and I've come to see 'copyright law in general' as extremely flexible and hazy once you leave the extremes." At which point it's still debatable whether this thing really isn't one of those extremes.)

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link

i take it this is what happened the last time Mark did this then?

i wonder what will happen the next time Mark does this

charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link

have any of jon williams's picture posts been preserved in the book? animated .gifs, flip-book style?

Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link

J0hn, I wish you wouldn't leave just because of what one poster---with no bad intentions---did.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:12 (nineteen years ago) link

so! wot's all this, then? did i miss anything?

Kingfish of Burma (Kingfish), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm quite surprised by Tep, this thread. I agree with Tep, this thread. Every step, Tep, correct.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

jwilliams really needs to make a coffee table book

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus-as-J0hn: 'Thanks, oops, but I've been waiting for a chance to 'cultivate my garden' (as Voltaire put it) for a while. I'm going to plant some runner beans and write some new songs.'

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus-as-J0hn: 'I'm also thinking of doing a little volunteer work on the election campaign. Er, you might be surprised by which ticket.'

(Momus-as-J0hn: 'Momus, you're skating on very thin ice at this point. What are you going to make me say here?')

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:26 (nineteen years ago) link

This will explain things, Jeremy.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:27 (nineteen years ago) link

...i don't get it.

Kingfish of Burma (Kingfish), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link

What I violently object to is that a half-dozen or so mediocre threads would be published before a Dave Q compilation.

Also, since I have copyright over my posts please remove any of mine before continuing with this scheme. k thx bye

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Mandee-as-Mandee: cut it out, momus.

Homosexual II, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Too late, suckers, I just bought the film rights. 'Excelsior: The Movie' is already in pre-production. You are each being played by the actor you hate the most.

Steven Spielberg (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:53 (nineteen years ago) link

When come bring royalties k thx bye

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorta glad I'll be on vacation for a few days away from a computer starting tomorrow night.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:57 (nineteen years ago) link

That's okay, we have Robin Williams to cover for you.

Steven Spielberg (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Everyone on this thread is OTM in one way or another. Me, I'm indifferent, but at this point I think it'd be in Mark's best interest to pull the book from CafePress and apologize to anyone here he's pissed off. Then it'd be in ILX's best interest to gently rap him on the wrist with a hypothetical ruler, let him go, and suggest that anyone who wants to do something like this again would be behooved to ASK FIRST.

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:04 (nineteen years ago) link

The ILX book is not sanctioned by anybody in any position of power or control over ILX. I am presently filing a complaint with CafePress on behalf of the ILXers whose Copyright is being violated through the publication of the book. (including my own)

Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:08 (nineteen years ago) link

(Note: I mention that it is "not sanctioned by anybody in any position of power or control" not to imply that were it sanctioned by me or some other moderator, it would be okay. Unless given explicit written permission, nobody may republish anybody else's ILX posts.)

Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Can I quote you on that?

Steven Spielberg (Momus), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.

There’s nothing you can do that can’t be done.
Nothing you can sing that can’t be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.
It’s easy.

Nothing you can make that can’t be made.
No one you can save that can’t be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.
It’s easy.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

Nothing you can know that isn’t known.
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be.
It’s easy.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

All you need is love (all together, now!)
All you need is love. (everybody!)
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need (love is all you need).

Yee-hai!
Oh yeah!
She loves you, yeah yeah yeah.
She loves you, yeah yeah yeah.

Can't we all just get along?, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

name some ILXers.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link


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