Keith Moon vs. John Bonham POLL

i would say each version with different drums is a distinct piece of music ie not the same "song". but this is OT. point is that was a shitty comparison. puffy talking over a track is nowhere near similar to moon's or any other drummer's contribution to any piece of music.

i think we're talking about the song vs the recording here, and it's totally subjective...some drum parts become signature things that the song would sound weird without, and most don't.

^^^exactly

(and personally i hate hearing zep songs w/out bonham, and most of his shit is totally signature to me :D)

if a drummer isn't creating a memorable part that becomes integral to the composition, he's failed imo. would a biggie track ever sound weird to you without puffy talking over it? if you say yes i don't believe you, so there.

there are plenty of classic (and great) rock songs that have generic, purely functional drum parts

ah but they serve a function and the song would be a different one if they were different. and they all could've been even better with better drum parts. basically you're saying you melody and harmony are more important to a song's DNA than drums, no?

and that these are equivalent statements?
"i don't like moon's drumming there. ruins the song"
"i don't like puffy's interjections. ruins the song"

granny i feel like i'm betraying my people or something here, but deej has a point.

xp

The only point I see is that a lot of songs have weak drum parts, and that Biggie tracks would sound weird without Puffy's interjections. I only agree with the former.

I guess those are two points, huh

some drum parts become signature things that the song would sound weird without, and most don't.

depends on the genre, doesn't it? or are you only talking about rock, in the first place?

I can't imagine "Big Poppa" without Puffy's parts, but anybody could have delivered them, it's not like his "how you livin' Biggie Smalls?" is SO INCREDIBLY FRESH as to rule out anybody else giving it - you know? So while I see yr point deej I still think it's bogus but I would say that because as president of the Society For Are-You-Still-Bugging-About-That I have to fulfill my obligations in this important election season

vote for me, I still hate Puffy

Darn1e11e/Puffy beef back ON

For me, it's Mitch Mitchell, THEN Bonham, THEN everybody else including Moon.

Oh and now I am remembering this thread from long ago

You know that part of Led Zeppelin's "Fool in the Rain" where they come out of the silly Latin section back into the main piano riff and there's like a steadily rising drum roll and

Wherein mad props were given to Bonham's fills circa In Through the Out Door and somebody posted the raw drum trax and we were in heaven for a brief lovely while

yup, good thread.

(btw that first fill after the samba part in "fool in the rain" is totally overdubbed btw)

do people feel that bonham was consistently brilliant througout his career in zep?

yes, people do.

i wish he had lived to be an 80's - 90's session dude

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

if he'd lived, i'm pretty sure he'd be getting by fine without playing shoddy studio gigs.

sure, he wouldn't have had to play at all, but i'd hope that at some point he would've wanted to do something other than play w/the same three dudes

John Bonham would have sounded excellent playing behind about anyone, as he has that rare combination of power and bounce but I cannot really imagine what The Who would have sounded like without Keith Moon. Take something like "Going Mobile", Moon is going so batshit crazy on the fills on the last part of that song, I just don't see how ANY other drummer could have made it work like that. While the songwriting in The Who was really well done, I cannot see The Who having the success they did without Moon, as they would probably have been a lot more straight ahead sounding and would not have gotten as wild and might not lead to Townsend going as far out on his songwriting.

Led Zep definitely would not have been as epic if say Ansley Dunbar was the drummer, but they would have probably still have been a pretty good blues rock styled band. I can't see them getting as far out as they did.

I'll tell you this, Steve Shelley at one point in Sonic Youth would get that forever drum roll like Keith Moon, especially in the Daydream Nation/Sister/Dirty era. At one point that crazy drum rolls like Moon just quit happening and to me, I really think that is the point I lost interest in SY.

Bill Ward is the dude that I think doesn't get the props he should, especially considering the stature of Black Sabbath. That dude could groove like Bonham and at points would get really wild with the fills, maybe not as much as Moon, but pretty out there like on Wheel of Confusion.

Ian Paice is also a really killer drummer.

Steve Shelley is way underrated.

Ian Paice is also a really killer drummer.

the weird free-groove breaks in 'flight of the rat' are mind-blowing

I voted for Moon because any time I really fucking need to hear some drums I play Happy Jack.

Keith Moon by far

1. Better drummer

and

2. The wildest human being ever in showbiz

And even though he was rather unique in his drumming style, his extramusical life and behaviour are my main reasons for going for Keith Moon. :)

Btw. whatever happened to that movie they were supposed to be making about his life? I was really looking forward to it.

Supposedly Daltrey (who started and is overseeing the Moon bio-pic project) has yet to find a decent script, and has already rejected more than a few.

I'll tell you this, Steve Shelley at one point in Sonic Youth would get that forever drum roll like Keith Moon, especially in the Daydream Nation/Sister/Dirty era. At one point that crazy drum rolls like Moon just quit happening and to me, I really think that is the point I lost interest in SY.

OTMFM. The rapid decline in Sonic Youth's music can be directly traced to the sudden lifelessness of Steve Shelley's playing.

"Bill Ward is the dude that I think doesn't get the props he should, especially considering the stature of Black Sabbath. That dude could groove like Bonham and at points would get really wild with the fills, maybe not as much as Moon, but pretty out there like on Wheel of Confusion.

Ian Paice is also a really killer drummer."

Both points OTM. Paice's finest moment is the album Burn. What a fucking drummer.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

poll results tough but fair

with that kind of turn out it's more or less scientifically proven

yesss, ilx had me worried there

(high turnout!)

xp

by this point I assume that whoever's getting the most vocal praise on a poll thread is going to lose

(now we should do page vs hendrix)

There's really only one proper response (at 5:12):

It's not that John Bonham wasn't technically capable of doing something like that; but brilliant as he was, he was a Rock Drummer, and he reveled in the conventions of drumming. Keith Moon was a lead percussionist, and the vast vocabulary he created is still sitting there, largely untouched, waiting for the truly adventurous to dig in and expand on it.

so Bonham is a better drummer and Moon the better "lead percussionist". I voted Bonham.

Matt, that version of Bargain -- and specifically the Moonburst at 5:12 -- is EXACTLY what I was thinking of when I mentioned the clumsy Bird/Night In Tunisia analogy upthread.

i like zeppelin more than the who usually (though i'll take the 10 or so best who songs over the best zep songs) but moon's drumming is my favorite part of almost every who song ever. the drum rolls in "i can see for miles" alone are mindblowing.

disappointing results imo

(now we should do page vs hendrix)

Page vs Clapton vs Beck would be better.

but there's no point doing that one

I tend to notice Bonham's drumming in a way I never noticed Moon's, though I do love the Who. I agree Bonham comes off sometimes as "behind the beat" but then he also "owns the beat" so the slight "behind-ness" of it is what actually rules in the end (what in god's name Libcrypt was on about earlier in this thread re: "unwinding the clock", though, I don't know). I'm intrigued that people here seem to think Moon was a genius, but then, not everyone's musical brains are wired the same and I'll confess there's only been a few drummers that I have especially noticed at the expense of all the other instruments in a given band. Jaki Leibezeit from Can is one, Loz Colbert from Ride is another (especially on "Vapour Trail"), Richard Thomas from Dif Juz...and most of all, John Bonham. Maybe it's to do with production somewhat, too...bands who have dared let the drums be front and center vs. those who wouldn't. Certainly that is a variable at least, here, however minor.

I love hearing how MAD Keith Moon was, and the crazy look on his face when he played drums in all those Who videos, but Bonham is like the ultimate as a rock drummer, I think.

That I don't get. Love him, hate him or think he's worse than Bonzo, Moon seems extremely difficult not to notice.

Also WTF is a "lead percussionist" in a band that didn't have any other...percussionists? You want the two-drummered version of The Fall, mate. Don't get confused.

And what the hell was Eddie Van Halen all by himself in all those Van Halen videos?

HAHAHAHAHAHHA
I was gonna mention Van Halen for some insane random reason like 20 min. ago!!!