Buying A House: C or D?

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I'm on my fourth house now, and I've nearly always had lodgers for a while to help pay the rent. I find it great, partly because I don't advertise or anything, I only take in people I already know I will get along with, and I don't mind a bit of extra housework in exchange for extra cash and/or dogminding. Right now my cousin and her husband are living with us and they're spot on, ideal lodgers.

See, lodgers are different from tenants - or they should be, anyway - because they don't get an equal share, so you don't have to give them an equal amount. They are renting a room in your house, not renting half the house. That's how it works for me anyway.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd like to buy but even though I'm infected with icky GIRL GERMS we still can't afford to buy anything in stupid London. We're planning to start a savings account for a deposit though so maybe in a few years things will be different.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

See, part of the reason that I'm buying MINE OWN house is because I started out being a tenant (or so I thought) and then got switched to being a lodger without anyone telling me. Grrrr.

::thinks about beautiful flat of mine own::

::calms down::

Please Snap StressTwig (kate), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

The thing that really made me want to buy my own house was moving hurriedly out of a flat that was being let by a MAD WOMAN into a house that didn't appear to have any hot water. I went from screaming at the landlady's agent to not touch me and to never look at me again, straight over to the new rented house. When I decided to have a nice hot shower, I got into the shower and the water was cold. I cried and cried and vowed that I would never live in rented accommodation again.
Okay, it's not Gone With the Wind, but it's my story.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I've had lodgers too, for a couple months at a time. It wasn't all bad, but then they left a washcloth in the laundry basin and it clogged the drain an overflowed and water got all over.. And even though it was an honest mistake, it's not one I would have made, so it bugged me. And also they always felt the need to talk when I came home from work. Maybe I just can't stand people.

D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

The concept of "lodgers" is less common here, but we have talked about taking in a Japanese student, maybe as part of an organized "Homestay" program where you're expected to feed them and be vaguely helpful. Maybe just by putting up some signs at one of the Japanese groceries. But will a lodger be able to handle living under the same roof as a screaming infant in 9 mos time? And will we really want a stranger around as we lose our minds? I'm thinking not so much.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe I should abscond with my deposit and buy a horse instead.

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

If the homestay programs where I work are anything to go by, you don't know who/what you're going to get, people turn up with all kinds of weird foibles - and if you're cooking for them that's food issues to deal with too. You don't always get to meet them before agreeing to host them - if it's an organised program and they are coming over from Japan - to see if you get on, unlike with traditional tenants or lodgers. Having TWO unpredictable new arrivals at once (baby and student) seems kind of daunting?

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I miss just being able to call a super to fix shit, but I do like the whole ownership and "this is my wall that I can put holes into" feeling. My house's value has increased $10K in the last five years, and I haven't done shit to it.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

We have had some work done, but even barring that, due to the low purchase cost when we bought in late 2001, we've made about a 50% 'profit'. SF real estate is insane.

M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh my god, I'm so grown up. I just got a quote for building and contents insurance! Eep!

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 19:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, classic, possibly because we didn't have to do much (just cosmetic stuff to hide the horrible old-woman-ness of the original decor) and ours has almost doubled in value over the last four years. I realise we are very lucky in this respect (having seen Madchen's bathroom firsthand).

Also classic because our outgoings are less than they would be if we were renting, and we get to live on our own and do what we want and IT'S OURS! As Pleasant Plains said, it's the I do like the whole ownership and "this is my wall that I can put holes into" feeling feeling that makes it worthwhile.

ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I want one, all to myself. A garage where I can put all the nailguns and tools I've inherited and my grandmother's old ceramics kiln, a bathroom I could convert into a real darkroom and a decent kitchen. I could almost afford to rent a small house by myself now, but that just gives me space without the ability to make changes.

Buying new appliances for a house seems like the most fun part of the process. Ooooh stainless steel cooktop. Ooooooh subzero wine fridge.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah sure, if you have a nice fat budget. But I remember it as being one of the hassliest bits of buying the house. We had hardly any money left over after buying our first house and it was really tiny so we didn't even bother buying a washing machine and just went to the laundry once a week.
Which actually turned out to be a great idea, because it meant we never had washing hanging around the place.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 20:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha, yeah that goes without saying. I've gone on too many trips with people we're building houses for while they pick out all their fancy new stainless appliances. It's fun by proxy.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

these are a couple of before and after pics of my house i bought in brooklyn a year ago. we have a tenant. we found him on craigslist and totally lucked out. whenever i go out of town i tell him to hang out in the main house and try on all my clothes. there is still a lot of work to do on the house but i figure that will be ongoing. i think that the value has gone up a lot already without us even doing work.

living room/dining room before
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/pics/livingrm2.jpg
after
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_livroom2.JPG
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_livroom3.JPG

kitchen before
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/pics/kitch2.jpg

after
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_kitchen.JPG


master bedroom before
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/pics/master2.jpg

after (with my old roommate using the computer)
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_bedroom1.JPG

Mendoza Lineman (Carey), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:39 (eighteen years ago) link

oh that linked pic should be of the living room looking the other way
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_livroom3.JPG

and here is the bathroom, the before pic is too big but it used to be all pink and black.

http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~feb/newpics/house_bathroom1.JPG

Mendoza Lineman (Carey), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Good job of brightening up the place. It looks great.

My wife and I have owned our house since early 87. We love the place. Single family, 90 plus yrs old, awesome mountain views and we'll be here a while yet. Of course there's always something in need of work, but you gotta live somewhere.

jim wentworth (wench), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 02:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Your house looks great, C!

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 05:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Someone I vaguely know in Virginia bought a Sears kit house from a hundred years ago. It still has the instructions in it. I think that's the coolest thing.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 07:29 (eighteen years ago) link

this makes me want my own house so badly... but alas, i have a lot of growing up to do first.

tres letraj (tehresa), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 07:57 (eighteen years ago) link

growingsaving

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 08:01 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, among other things.

tres letraj (tehresa), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 08:10 (eighteen years ago) link

just closed on my house on halloween. we are only the second owners and it was built in 1941. just minor cosmetics needed to be done, i will post pictures of before and after.

this is the second house we've owned, we sold our condo and made $75000.

bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:17 (eighteen years ago) link

My IFA has just absconded with my homebuyers survey to make a decision on how much work it will actually need!

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Taken last night
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cmvenuti/xmashouse.jpg

Living room before:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cmvenuti/lvingroombefore.jpg

Living room after (nice hardwoods under shit carpet):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cmvenuti/livingroomafter.jpg

bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Ooh, nice! I love your fireplace! I wonder if there's fireplaces under the stickyouty bits in my walls... if I do something about the damp, I might take a peek while the walls are exposed.

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:31 (eighteen years ago) link

THAT VANILLA TOOTHPASTE TASTES LIKE SHIT

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Yo, UK peeps! Anyone got a line on good building and contents insurance? I've got a quote from one of our affiliates, and want to know if it's competative.

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Direct line?

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll get me coat.

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I got mine online - Churchill, saved £20 a month....will check what the website was called and get back to you, it compared all the deals for you.

I have 2 houses *smug grin*, but no money :0( First one was my first ever wee fixer upper flat, that I now rent out to various weirdos and misfits.

The 2nd is the one I just bought off the bastard ex for a HUGE amount of money that I can't really afford - but it's MINE all MINE mwah ha ha...and I LOVE living on my OWN in MY house! It's the best feeling....I've just moved back in, so I still think everything is fab...the bubble will burst very soon methinks...

smee (smee), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link


My insurance is with the Nationwide - clearly it was competitive at the time!

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually my insurance is with Direct line & it was certainly one of the cheapest quotes I found.

Panther Pink (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 14:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess I should check it out but I hate giving out information online like that.

Control your ponies, children! (kate), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 14:15 (eighteen years ago) link

My insurance is with the Royal Bank of Scotland. I've just had to make my first claim. I've had water coming through my living room ceiling - turns out there's a few slates missing and it's consistent with storm damage so they're paying out for the damage to the room but not the roof repairs. They gave me 2 options - take the ceiling and coving down and replace it all to a professional standard which will mean redecorating the walls which i've just spent a shitload of time and energy doing or get someone in to do a patch job and pocket the difference (they've got to pay out the value of the first option regardless of the work done). I was tempted to go for the second option but figured it'll be good to have the room done to a high spec should i decide to sell. The roof repairs are shared between the flats in the building so i've got the dubious pleasure of canvassing my neighbours for their share of the cash.

leigh (leigh), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

unless the house is brand new my whole thought process is you might as well get the cosmetically crappiest looking place there is for a good deal because you'll want to change everything anyway, so you might as well be forced to because otherwise you'll be stuck with ugly kitchen cabinets that are functional but you hate for 10 years. and kicking down walls is fun. skim coating ceilings is not.

i am not a fan of white kitchens and bathrooms but at the time i was so tired of renovating that I was just shouting JUST MAKE EVERYTHING WHITE!!! because i could not deal with color schemes and tiles anymore and white appliances are the cheapest and renovating takes 3 times as long as you think it will. when those pics were taken probably 6 months after moving in we still did not have a kitchen trashcan and the vaccuum was always out. IKEA was so helpful. We splurged on things that mattered like faucets and sinks and our custom stainless steel counter, but otherwise we just went to ikea for standard white cabinets and like, the toilet paper holder. I would never get seating there though.

Mendoza Lineman (Carey), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Kate: would it work if you wanted to just see a quote to give them a different name and address a couple of doors down the road instead? This is what I often do when shopping around for insurance quotes.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
(there is no 'estate agent' thread so i picked one of the house buying threads, of which there are quite a few)

anybody see the documentary about estate agents on bbc last night?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4826444.stm

koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

haha holy shit
this explains why that Century 21 commercial creeps me the fuck out so much

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I didn't see the documentary, just read the BBC article online. Not what I want to hear when we're thinking of moving!

Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Whistleblower (BBC One)

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

This seems as good a place as any to ask a question about mortgages...

Me & the missus are about four months away from the end of our fixed-rate term on our repayment mortgage; we want to bundle all our unsecured debts on the new mortgage, cut up those credit cards (possibly only symbolically in my case - y'never know when I might pass a branch of Jessops with a Sigma 30/1.4 going cheap in the window), wipe out those overdrafts and live sensibly within our means like nonidiots for a bit.

Called our vendor today (a lovely Scottish woman named after an Orchids song) and, after she'd done her sums, she said we'd be unlikely to make their affordability criteria for the necessary loan amount (since we last applied Pam has gone self-employed and our joint income is much lower). However, if we got an interest-only version of the same product, the deal was back on (I guess the monthly payments are £100-£150 less or so).

Now, thanks to a little loophole that she probably wasn't supposed to tell me about, we could switch back to a repayment mortgage later cos they're only duty-bound to do affordability assessments when the loan amount changes, not when the product-type changes.

Does this sound like a good plan? As far as I know, the mortgage vendor doesn't have to see any proof that you've taken steps to cover the capital when setting up an interest-only mortgage, do they? I mean, they don't care - they're getting shedloads of interest off you PLUS they get the house at the end of the loan period into the bargain if you've failed to make adequate provision. So it should be straightforward.

There's also the interim possibility of an Additional Loan - a secured loan at a higher rate that's very quick to set up and isn't as picky in its acceptance criteria - to wipe out the debts, that could be bundled with the new mortgage product (at the mortgage rate) when we switch in the new year.

Michael Jones, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 12:04 (sixteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

I'm entering the club and discovering a whole new world of paranoia about dodgy roofs and walls...

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 17:26 (sixteen years ago) link

Buying a house: dud. Having a mortgage: dud. Owning a house: classic!

Aimless, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 20:21 (sixteen years ago) link

Living in Australia off the back of the Howard era: DUD DUD BIG FUCKING DUD. We both work and we can't afford a cardboard box in the country.

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 21:48 (sixteen years ago) link

five months pass...

anyone have experience buying a home in pre-foreclosure?

I have friends who are fundamentally against this concept and cited 'house of sand and fog' (which I have neither read nor watched) as an example of why this is 'mean' but frankly, fuck that. the bank is going to take it anyway. and people in my own family have lost homes to foreclosure themselves.

akm, Monday, 2 June 2008 20:06 (fifteen years ago) link

five months pass...

UK people, is it worth buying the freehold on my flat?

My upstairs neighbour has been talking to the owner of the building about it, however, we all have to agree before we can do it.

Obviously it will increase the value of the property (as if that means anything in the current climate) - but what kind of control/liabilities does it give us as leaseholders turned freeholders?

Apart from escaping service charges - does that outweight the lump sum that I'd have to come with up front?

Carrot Kate (Masonic Boom), Friday, 14 November 2008 10:15 (fifteen years ago) link

What is the length of your lease?

You won't escape all service charges as you will still have to buy buildings insurance between you and it would be wise to keep a contingency fund going for future repairs, exterior painting and the like. Generally how it works is that you and your neighbour set up a company that buys the freehold and the share of the company gets sold along with the flat and I think you can write that into the deeds. This is very ordinary stuff for solicitors. The company then charges you a service charge which then goes for buildings insurance, contingency fund, cleaning of the common parts (Which you don't have) and you generally set out how this is to be calculated in the articles of the company, again bread and butter stuff for a solicitor.

Might be a good time to do it as you will get it cheap and be able to lower your outgoings on service charge a bit. Not sure about the affect on price but a share of a freehold is more attractive and might make it easier to sell at some future point.

Ed, Friday, 14 November 2008 10:23 (fifteen years ago) link

Depends on sooooo many things, and with all due respect to ilx peeps you might want to take legal advice on the leaseholder/freeholder aspect. Why does the owner want to do this now I wonder?

Fat Penne (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 14 November 2008 10:23 (fifteen years ago) link

OWNING PROPERTY IS NOT FOR THE WEAK !!!! https://t.co/zw3miD6xQF

— Cardi B (@iamcardib) October 15, 2023

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:22 (six months ago) link

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-19/nyc-real-estate-condo-co-op-expenses-rise-more-than-inflation


No one ever said living in New York City is cheap. But surging expenses in recent years are threatening to squeeze homeowners even more.

Fees paid to co-op and condo boards have soared almost three times faster than the rate of inflation. Ever-tougher rules on inspections, escalating insurance premiums and preparations for a strict new climate law are adding hundreds or even thousands of dollars to monthly bills for residents already paying some of the world’s highest housing costs.

While the charges may be little more than an annoyance to the wealthy owner of a Park Avenue penthouse, they could force New Yorkers of more modest means — from families to seniors on fixed incomes to young first-time buyers — to give up on their hard-won foothold in the city.

“When you put it all together, we’re going to end up being a city of the very rich and the very poor,” said Mary Ann Rothman, executive director of the Council of New York Cooperatives and Condominiums. The people in the middle who “want to make a commitment to the city by buying into co-ops and condos are going to be pushed out.”

At one co-op on Riverside Drive, the bill for two recent inspections was $28,000, followed by fixes that tallied $1.4 million. A building on West 80th Street spent $900,000.

The cycle of near-constant repairs and construction across the city is pushing up insurance expenses, which have jumped more than 300% for some properties. Upgrades to outdated heating and cooling systems could amount to $25,000 for each homeowner at certain buildings, according to an estimate from a supporter of the new carbon-emissions limits.

After years of steep inflation in the US, New Yorkers aren’t alone in paying higher prices for everything from taxes to water, gas and electricity. As routine expenses have surged, so have the fees the city’s condo and co-op boards charge unit owners. Those bills — meant to cover utilities, labor and basic building maintenance — jumped roughly 54% from the first quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of this year, according to appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. Across the economy, US consumer prices were up 19% in the same period.

Piled on top of that are costs for complying with the city’s stricter building standards. Some homeowners and real estate professionals vent that the rules are excessive, and speculate whether special interests that stand to profit might be behind them. Advocates argue the mandates — strengthened after a falling piece of terra cotta struck and killed a pedestrian in 2019 — are needed to keep New Yorkers safe in their homes and on the city’s streets as properties age.

“All these regulations are really putting a severe financial strain on these buildings where the shareholders really don’t have the resources to pay for everything,” said Gustavo Rusconi, vice president and director of management at Argo Real Estate. “I understand they’re in place for safety reasons, but they really are squeezing everyone.”

‘Everything’s a Cost’
The exterior walls of every property of more than six stories must be examined every five years under the Facade Inspection and Safety Program. With each cycle, the city has added more requirements, which in turn have raised the costs of compliance.

Inspecting a 100-unit building in Brooklyn with 200 feet (61 meters) of perimeter walls would cost roughly $30,000, said Peter Varsalona, principal and vice president of RAND Engineering and Architecture. It would’ve been cheaper five years ago, before the city mandated that scaffold drops be installed every 60 feet — at a cost of roughly $7,500 each. If it’s a postwar building with cavity walls that need to be probed, add another $20,000 to the price.

In Varsalona’s example, each unit would be responsible for a proportional share of the cost. While an additional $500 or so for an inspection may not be a huge burden, the repair bill often can be.

In the wake of the pedestrian’s death, the city now bans repairs to damaged terra cotta elements and instead requires that they be fully replaced. The tab could reach $2.5 million as pieces are recast and other repairs are made, pipe scaffolding is rented, the project is insured and a consultant advises on the process, Varsalona said. That would translate to $25,000 on average that each owner in a 100-unit building would have to pay on top of existing maintenance or common charges.

“Everything’s a cost. How much can you put on co-op shareholders? There are limits,” said Varsalona, who is also president of the Council of New York Cooperatives and Condominiums. “Many owners are going to have to figure out if it is affordable to live in the city or not.”

Insurers Are ‘Bleeding’
When it comes to insurance, boards are paying more and getting less.

Longtime carriers are leaving the market, forcing buildings to stitch together multiple policies to get anywhere near the coverage they had just a few years ago. One affordable co-op in the Bronx, for example, is paying 45% more for just 15% of the coverage it had previously.

While natural disasters have sent the industry reeling nationwide, much of the pressure in New York is coming from multimillion-dollar “nuclear verdicts,” payouts of sometimes more than plaintiffs sought in accidents involving construction work.

Insurers are raising prices to make up for their losses, said Sean Kent, senior vice president at FirstService Financial, which works with 600 co-op and condo buildings in the city. Annual premiums at those properties rose as much as 300% this year, though the average increase was about 25%, Kent said.

Traditionally, buildings would pool together to buy so-called umbrella policies, with better coverage at lower rates than they could secure on their own. But now that carriers are “bleeding,” those plans are disappearing, said Chip Stuart, North American real estate practice leader at insurance brokerage Hub International.

The Amalgamated Housing Cooperative, a complex of 11 buildings near Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx, paid $2.4 million last year for $650 million of coverage, the level required by its mortgage lender. Now its bill is $3.5 million for just $100 million of coverage, cobbled from 10 different carriers.

The board is still working to make up the difference, according to its treasurer, Ed Yaker, who said skyrocketing insurance costs are a surprise to residents.

“The average guy who just lives in the building, who doesn’t think about it and doesn’t serve on the board, doesn’t understand why it’s happening,” Yaker said.

Climate Costs
For all but the most energy-efficient buildings, the largest expense on the horizon is Local Law 97. The measure requires properties of at least 25,000 square feet (2,300 square meters) to begin reducing their greenhouse gas emissions by January 2024, though proposed changes could give two more years of leeway to building owners that show a “good faith effort” to comply.

A study commissioned earlier this year by the Real Estate Board of New York estimated that nearly 15% of co-ops would be out of compliance with the emissions limits, facing average annual penalties of about $57,000. Without updates, 72% of co-ops will face similar fines beginning in 2030, when the city’s rules become more stringent.

Overhauling a residential building’s heating and cooling systems comes with “a significant cost,” generally amounting to $20,000 to $25,000 for each unit, which can be spread out over several years, said Pete Sikora, a campaigns director at New York Communities for Change, a group that advocated for the law’s passage.

Buildings will be able to apply for grants to make projects less onerous, and heating with electricity instead of gas or oil would ultimately save money, Sikora said — two reasons he and others are optimistic about compliance.

“There is no serious threat to affordability in any large-scale way,” he said.

But critics have been vocal in arguing it would put a heavy burden on homeowners. Warren Schreiber, co-president of the Presidents Co-Op and Condo Council, and his allies are suing to stop the law’s implementation while supporting city council bills to water it down.

“Yes, we should do something about the climate,” Schreiber said, “but the burden should not be put on the shoulders of co-op and condo owners.”

He estimated the tab for modernizing his building, the Bay Terrace Cooperative in northeast Queens, at as much as $5 million. That would leave each of the complex’s 200 units with a $25,000 bill, which he said is unrealistic to expect his fellow shareholders to pay.

“We have young families that are just starting out and struggling to make ends meet, we have civil servants, we have teachers, firemen, police,” he said. “We don’t have a lot of those millionaires — as a matter of fact, we don’t have any, as far as I know.”

, Friday, 20 October 2023 13:55 (six months ago) link

I had a fantasy about living in the NYC area when I was in my early 20s. Which seems laughably naive and impossible now.

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 20 October 2023 14:01 (six months ago) link

garbage city

Tracer Hand, Friday, 20 October 2023 14:21 (six months ago) link

Yeah I think it's basically a post-lotto-winning fantasy for most normal humans, and yet there are still millions of people there. A mystery.

I live outside DC, which is also out of reach for most humans. I have a sister in San Francisco (I have lost count but I think she has more than one house).

But even for ridiculously privileged folks, NYC just seems about as plausible as living on the moon.

The Royal House of Hangover (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 20 October 2023 14:54 (six months ago) link

oh sorry that's 2022, i.e. 6% rates. here it is now:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/OC_Salary-Own-Home_1200PX.jpg

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 20 October 2023 15:15 (six months ago) link

Yow. I don't know if "well, at least you aren't in San Jose" is especially comforting but I guess that is where we are.

The Royal House of Hangover (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 20 October 2023 15:21 (six months ago) link

Dang, that escalated quickly.

pplains, Friday, 20 October 2023 16:33 (six months ago) link

San Jose punishing Dionne Warwick more each year

Natural Wine • Danny Devito • Virginia (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 20 October 2023 16:51 (six months ago) link

two weeks pass...

But any preference for renting here collides with a stark financial reality: National surveys show that in recent decades, Swiss homeowners have been better off, at least in terms of wealth. The median net worth of a Swiss homeowner in their 30s is six times higher than that of a renter of the same age. And the wealth gap only widens with age. In their 70s, Swiss homeowners are 11 times wealthier than renters their age, according to a study by Ursina Kuhn at the Swiss Foundation for Research in Social Sciences in Lausanne.

The catch is that in order to become a homeowner, “you need wealth to get more wealth,” as Ms. Kuhn put it.

certainly seems like rentier capitalism to me

, Monday, 6 November 2023 18:50 (five months ago) link

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/11/09/realestate/brooklyn-apartment-prospect-heights-clinton-hill.html

not sure if pooling together their money gave them any sort of financial advantage here

, Thursday, 9 November 2023 17:13 (five months ago) link

a well known former ilxor just did this in bk. aside from a bigger downpayment, four adults on the mortgage meant the bank would give them a bigger loan iiuc.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 9 November 2023 17:47 (five months ago) link

Maine prices have gone off a trampoline of gold. I don't know what younger people looking for a starter home are going to do

| (Latham Green), Thursday, 9 November 2023 17:54 (five months ago) link

We have these in SF, they are called tenancies-in-common and while most major lenders shy away from them there are smaller lenders (RIP SVB) that I believe continue to underwrite them.

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 9 November 2023 19:54 (five months ago) link

There's a very dark article in this week's New York Review of Books about the coming homeowners' insurance crash. It's behind their paywall, but I'm a subscriber, so if anybody wants to read it I'll paste it here.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Sunday, 12 November 2023 00:07 (five months ago) link

climate change = more destruction of houses - :(

| (Latham Green), Thursday, 16 November 2023 17:02 (five months ago) link

three weeks pass...

We have these in SF, they are called tenancies-in-common and while most major lenders shy away from them there are smaller lenders (RIP SVB) that I believe continue to underwrite them.

― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Thursday, November 9, 2023 11:54 AM (one month ago)

SF strictly regulated them as they were a common means of eliminating affordable rental housing from the market, and it wasn't uncommon for the new owners to not actually live in their units and basically convert them to market rate rentals.

sarahell, Sunday, 10 December 2023 06:01 (four months ago) link

There's a very dark article in this week's New York Review of Books about the coming homeowners' insurance crash. It's behind their paywall, but I'm a subscriber, so if anybody wants to read it I'll paste it here.

― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Sunday, 12 November 2023 00:07 (four weeks ago) link

just got a letter saying we're getting a deductible rate adjustment due to hurricanes.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 10 December 2023 06:17 (four months ago) link

I just posted this in the Los Angeles thread today:

Found out today that the house insurance has been cancelled. We're a mile away from the state defined Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zone border (hell, we're closer to the 210 freeway than we are to the hillside) but nevertheless...

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 10 December 2023 12:39 (four months ago) link

Background to all this from Sept. 2021: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-09-26/california-fire-insurance-moratorium-expire

A California moratorium guaranteeing insurance in wildfire-threatened areas lapsed Saturday, putting 347,000 homes in Pasadena and other Los Angeles foothills communities at the mercy of the market.

As many as 2.4 million homes are at risk of losing protection in 2021 as yearlong grace periods expire — though new disasters may extend their shields. In all, 18% of the state’s households could effectively lose protection, the largest single group since the moratorium law took effect three years ago.

“We’re going to pay the bill for climate change one way or the other, and it’s just a question of how we divvy up that cost,” said David Russell, co-director of the Center for Risk Management and Insurance at Cal State Northridge. “What California politicians are trying to do is tinker with how we do that. They’re buying time, hoping they get a break.”

Climate change has been rough on the world’s fifth-biggest economy: Wildfires torched nearly 4 million acres last year and more than 2 million so far this year; the Dixie and Caldor fires, two of the biggest, still aren’t entirely contained.

Fires in 2017 and 2018 alone wiped out more than a quarter-century of underwriting profits for the California insurance market, according to Milliman Inc., a risk assessment company. As insurers rushed to recalibrate risks, consumers were shocked by canceled policies and soaring rates.

In 2018, after the Camp fire destroyed more than 18,000 buildings, lawmakers in Sacramento prevented insurance companies from canceling homeowner policies in or adjacent to wildfire areas for 12 months after the day of an emergency declaration. The idea was to protect consumers after traumatic episodes and to give them time to make their homes more fire resistant. That, ideally, would prevent higher rates or cancellations.

“Even when these moratoriums end, they have given people time to make their homes safer,” California Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lara, said in a statement to Bloomberg, an argument he has made on numerous occasions. “I expect insurance companies to take that into account.”

It’s hard to tell whether this is wishful thinking or effective policy. Even before the law was enacted, California’s highly regulated market was seeing insurers quit the state or refuse to write new policies. In 2019, the last period for which information was available, the state saw a 31% uptick in non-renewals. Over the same period there was a 36% increase in homeowners using the California FAIR Plan, the state’s bare-bones alternative for those who can’t get insurance in the traditional market.

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 10 December 2023 12:45 (four months ago) link

What are you going to do Elvis?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 10 December 2023 13:53 (four months ago) link

An inspector from AAA is visiting tomorrow, but I get on edge when I see stories like this: https://abc7news.com/ca-homeowners-insurance-homeowner-cancellation-policy-nonrenewal-not-renewed/13619472/

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 10 December 2023 20:51 (four months ago) link


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