JOHHNY B. POLLED: chuck berry's great twenty-eight

why does little richard make sense? i don't see that as clearly. i guess i too was focused on those two songs as well, but i wasn't thinking about singing style, really.

more about writing/attitude

It is "Johnny B Goode". Actually one out of very few so-called "classics" from the 50s rock'n'roll era that deserves the tag. In a way, it is just another boring 12 bar song, but the song is composed so effectively that it gives you a feeling of a verse/chorus build, and you forget the harmonic limitations of the song.

Out of the 50s rockers, only Buddy Holly did this better.

wow apparently Santana covered "Havana Moon", and even named the album after the song. You can see a live clip from 1983 here (it starts at about the 3:25 mark or so). 3 drummers! Carlos Santana characteristically looks like he's giving birth during the solo.

why does little richard make sense? i don't see that as clearly. i guess i too was focused on those two songs as well, but i wasn't thinking about singing style, really.

dylan started out as a piano player, right? i dunno, something about dylan reminds me of little richard's singing (but like tipsy says, without the shouting.)

btw I am lolling that anyone covered "Havana Moon", which is the only thing like a dud on the album, I reckon

wtf Dylan doesn't sound like Little Richard

Paul McCartney sounded a lot like Little Richard when he was at his most boring musically though.

pretty sure there are plenty of articles and books about how dylan wanted to be little richard growing up back in hibbing

Santana characteristically looks like he's giving birth during the solo.

lol

"Johnny B. Goode" is actually among my least favorites here - I don't know if I've just heard it way way way too many times or if it was just never all that exciting. The "Go, go, go Johnny go" chorus just doesn't have much going on, and in general there's not too much of Chuck's bite and wit in the track. Even the curious sequel song musters more distinctive detail: "She drew out all her money out the Southern Trust / and put her little boy aboard a Greyhound bus" vs "There stood a log cabin made of earth and wood / where lived a country boy named Johnny B. Goode."

There are a lot of these that are really elevated by the little touches in the lyrics/vocals - like how "Thirty Days" is basically "Maybellene" over again except who cares because you get

"'f I don't get no satisfaction from the JUDGE
'm gonna take it to the EFF BEE EYE and voice m' GRUDGE
'f they don't gimme no consolation
I'm'a take it to the United Nations,
I'm'a see that you be back home in thirty days"

So many more! Pretty much every song in this tracklist makes me flash on some great line or other and some of them are just wall-to-wall inventiveness. "You Can't Catch Me" is maybe not his most exciting composition but again, check out the lingo - "Here come ol' flat top" - "Flyin' on the beam set on flight control" - "Custom made, was a Flight de Ville" - "Rollin' slowly cause of drizzlin' showers" - "Bye bye New Jersey I've be-come airborne"...

"Marty, that was very interesting music" oh man but the riff on "Johnny B. Goode"! even without the lyric it's epic.

that riff is so great even Phish can't ruin it with a singer losing his voice

nb I was in the 4th row in front of Trey ;)

CLASSICAL MUSIC FOR $400:

Chuck Berry told this classical composer to 'roll over'

"Who is Beethoven?"

Correct!

CLASSICAL MUSIC FOR $600:

Chuck Berry told Beethoven to tell this classical composer 'the news'

...

Re: Dylan/ Berry
Sing Nadine in a Dylan voice.

'I shouted to the driver, hey conducter/ you m-u-st, slow down....
Nadi-i-i-ine, a honey is that yew?

and xpost
of course it was the Milo de Venus -much funnier

motorvatin

Of the top of the head, it's either Reelin' & Rockin', Memphis or Nadine, but I'm gonna listen to the whole thing while I make dinner and then get back to it.

Also: "I'm gon' send out a world wide hoodoo/ that'll be the very thing that'll suit ya" omg and "MOTORVATIN'" OTM!!!

the version of Maybellene on 'Golden Hits' (late 60's 'compilation' which is really Chuck redoing his hits in what some deem a wan fashion) is super, doesn't seem tweaked too much at first but he flattens some of the verbal inflections in the chorus to nice effect and then the groove on the verses gets locked in hypnotically tight while he's rattling off his shit, all of a sudden it's a new song damn near. the only version for me now.

Memphis.

The twist at the end just kills me every time.

Also this:

"Last time I saw Marie she's waving me good-bye
With hurry home drops on her cheek that trickled from her eye"

Other favorites:
"Phone sounds like thunder/ some stupid jerk tryin' to reach another number"
"She's the daughter of a well-respected man/ Who taught her how to judge and understand/ Since she became a rock-roll music fan"/// also love this song for the "She never gets any older" trope which is an important part of the Chuck Berry mythology, wrt The Supernature of Rock & Roll, plus it puts some surreal images in my head

The Dylan/Berry comparison makes a lot of sense to me, too, as a trajectory. They both take a perverse thrill in the tremendous possibilities of a simple couplet, and they were the architects of amalgamating rock'n'roll-fakin' it and rock'n'roll-sincerity, which really caught on much later than either's hey-day. Also, Berry wasn't that great of a singer, at least in proportion to his other talents, and there was little precedent for that when Dylan began his rock+roll career, so I'm certain he was well studied.

These songs have aged a lot better than a lot of the other early ROCKERS because Berry's particular talent, which is, you know, fucking poetry, like that of Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams and a handful of the other architects popular music. Well, poetry is something that can only die with the language, unlike the energy of Little Richard or the sonic mastery of Buddy Holly, which could be/were outdone in some ways (though they're records still thrill me for those reasons, I could see how they wouldn't really get a jaded punker or prog rocker or hip hop head their rocks).

Johnny B. Goode maybe hasn't aged as well in this sense, because its poetry takes place on a different level. It's amazing to me how he took this archetype of the poor uneducated country boy who's amazing talent transcends the pettiness of class and turned it on its head for the Rock'n'Roll era just as the middle classes were puking in their laps over this amazing new energetic type of music that had its roots in greasy juke joints down south. It's an idea that's been fully integrated (no pun intended) now, but it was a remarkable addition to the rock mythology, and it hits me a little deeper than a wow neat-o couplet, even though he was the GOAT of neat-o couplets.

I guess my vote will go for "Nadine" because it was the first CB song I heard as profound with mature ears, having already heard them all as profound with immature ears. Also, I feel like I've lived that song a million times, and I've still never caught Nadine, and that's why the fadeout kills me every time.
Question: which of these two less Berry "Greats" moreso invented the Beatles: "I Wanna Be Your Driver" or "I'm Talking About You"

Jake otm - "hurry-home drops" is one of the most beautiful figures of speech I've ever heard.

It also brings up the important and perhaps hithertoo never asked question:

Is Chuck Berry twee?

Voted "Talking About You." I'm noting this mostly so I'll remember what I was into at this particular moment.

i am curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this, i just don't hear it! i think dylan totally has a rock and roll influence but chuck berry specifically, i don't hear

Since I realised how much Dylan 'borrowed' from Chuck Berry I can't listen to Chuck Berry now without hearing Dylan

30 days for sure.
and lyrically he's great; roll over beethoven's so succinct.

people explosion: Great post to which I can't add much - but as to the Beatles question, of the two, "I Wanna Be Your Driver" reminds me a lot more of the first couple of Beatles records - good call! Of these, how many did the Beatles actually do? "Too Much Monkey Business," with a charmingly different arrangement...a rather forced "Rock n Roll Music"...and "Roll Over Beethoven" which IIRC actually rocks pretty well on the Hollywood Bowl record. Plus the nod from "Back in the USSR"!

I buy the argument that "Johnny B. Goode" is poetic in terms of its general gesture and recentering of an old story around rock n roll (and in doing so, formulating a good fifth of what would later constitute "rock mythology") ...which makes it much more interesting to me as a piece of art but unfortunately not much more exciting as a song. Again, just too many "go!"s.

Re: Dylan - another bit, on "Beautiful Delilah" when Chuck's all like:

"Deep romantic eyyyes
Speak so low and miiiiild" - I could totally hear Dylan doing this.

"Some stupid jerk tryin' to reach another number": Chuck Berry OTM - like "Nadine" this bit still hits hard in my twenties...

tremendoid - Oh, wow! I have the faintest memory of hearing that version of "Maybellene" and being totally confused. I wonder what it is I have that on...

There's a big bit in the Dylan book Song and Dance Man about how much Dylan owes to CB. It's while since I read it, but the gist was that Dylan's use of slang and close detail to colour a line was straight from Berry. I remember them quoting You Never Can Tell as an example:

They bought a souped-up jitney, 'twas a cherry red '53,
They drove it down to Orleans to celebrate the anniversary
It was there that Pierre was married to the lovely madamoiselle
"C'est la vie", say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell

And saying how the use of "souped up jitney" to emphasise an old-beaten up car, a usage that wasn't in popular use at the time, makes it a close relative to Dylan. ANd the twist at the end when they get married is the kind of thing that Dylan would pull as well, come to think of it.

The original rapper!
Pay phone
Something wrong
Dime gone, will mail
I ought to sue the operator for telling me a tale

The impossibility of actually saying, from this bunch, "here's the best song" is one of the reasons I hate polls

there is no best song here: there's a massive cumulative accomplishment whose parts talk to one another throughout

In "Hail, Hail Rock 'n' Roll," Springsteen pretty succinctly sums up Berry's genius when he discusses the imagery in "Nadine," which I voted for:

I saw her from the corner when she turned and doubled back
And started walkin toward a coffee colored cadillac

"I've never seen a coffee colored cadillac," said the Boss. "But I know exactly what one looks like."

there's a massive cumulative accomplishment whose parts talk to one another throughout

For example: "souped-up jitney" shows up in "You Never Can Tell" and in "You Can't Catch Me"!

Always loved that Springsteen quote - maybe the best part of the movie.

ANd the twist at the end when they get married is the kind of thing that Dylan would pull as well, come to think of it.

Wait, is that supposed to be a twist ending? I always thought it was kind of a recap/filler line - they're going to New Orleans to celebrate their anniversary, because New Orleans is where they got married back at the beginning of the song.

Plenty of non-filler lines to love in that song though -

"They furnished off an apartment with a two-room Roebuck's sale
The coolerater was crammed with TV dinners and ginger ale"

...and of course the way the old folks wushed 'em well.

Question: What is that happens when the sun goes down? I always thought it was "..the record tip off the music fell" but Google is telling me it's "the rapid tempo of the music fell" which doesn't scan as well but is sort of cutely randy...

(re: the jitney - I like to imagine "You Never Can Tell" retroactively inserting itself into the continuity of "You Can't Catch Me" - like, it's actually Pierre and Madame that are getting buzzed by high-speed Chuck!)

buy the argument that "Johnny B. Goode" is poetic in terms of its general gesture and recentering of an old story around rock n roll (and in doing so, formulating a good fifth of what would later constitute "rock mythology")

a fifth might be understating it. it almost singlehandedly created the archetype of the guitar-slinger as the male american outlaw figure of the second half of the 20th century. there's a continuum that starts there and maybe eventually implodes with kurt cobain.

(How about "Bo Diddley Is A Gunslinger"?)

I like the comeback single "No Particular Place to Go" best. The (indeed, rather twee) entendre of the safety belt, and those fills...THOSE FILLS.

well "johnny b. goode" predated bo diddley is a gunslinger by a few years. but right, one thing "johnny" did was take the blues model of the six-string hotshot and repackage it for a mass audience.

The original lyric was not "little country boy" but "little COLORED boy". FWTW.

I'm always impressed by the care and effort Chuck put into his lyrics, when his teenage audience of the time probably couldn't care less about the words, as long as they were backed by that crazy rock 'n roll beat. It's as if he knew there'd be rock criticism ten years hence.

"Memphis" is a fantastic song, even though his recording of it isn't terribly spectacular. So, not that one...

The impossibility of actually saying, from this bunch, "here's the best song" is one of the reasons I hate polls

who said we were voting on the best song?

that's what a poll is gabb

no, it is common for people to ask what is being polled and reasonable to regard this as a poll of personal favorites

unless you are the most obtuse dude on the planet, it is self-evident what this poll is asking: which is the best song on chuck berry's great twenty-eight, which is a record of chuck berry's "greatest hits"

which is a record of chuck berry's "greatest hits"

Or CD, or mp3, whichever you like

The whole "best vs favorite" thing is kinda interesting sometimes, but sort of overpowered, for me, by the much more interesting task of identifying really awesome moments in Chuck Berry songs.

favorite moments:

*first five seconds of Beautiful Delilah--the guitar calling and then the drums responding

*the beat of Maybellene

*everything about Almost Grown, esp. the background vocals

* what everyone has said about Memphis--such a great song

* i love everything about Havana Moon

More clever mixing of early rock and the American cultural weave: "Sweet Little Rock n Roller"'s appropriation of "Casey at the Bat" to turn some sweaty teen sensation into that most American star of all, the baseball star:

"Ten thousand eyes were on him as he rubbed his hands with dirt
Five thousand tongues applauded when he wiped them on his shirt."

versus

"Ten thousand eyes were watchin' him leave the floor
Five thousand tongues were screamin', 'More, more!'
And about fifteen hundred waitin' outside the door."

"everything about Almost Grown, esp. the background vocals"

Yes! I was going to bring this up earlier - "RA TACK A TACK A TACK AH!"

(fwiw for me polls are mostly a chance to talk about something, with a little competition thrown in. and they tend to generate more new discussion than just reviving an old thread.)

they left off "You Never Can Tell"?!

the version of Maybellene on 'Golden Hits' (late 60's 'compilation' which is really Chuck redoing his hits in what some deem a wan fashion) is super, doesn't seem tweaked too much at first but he flattens some of the verbal inflections in the chorus to nice effect and then the groove on the verses gets locked in hypnotically tight while he's rattling off his shit, all of a sudden it's a new song damn near. the only version for me now.

-- tremendoid, Monday, August 4, 2008 6:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

i picked this up years ago for a dollar and probabaly listened to it once. But my interest is officially piqued re: Maybellene. I'm going to oull it out tonight.

no, Que, it is self-evident that this poll is asking your favorite of chuck berry's great twenty-eight, the ridiculousness of there being a single greatest hit being obvious to some of us

Would love to hear more about students reacting to Chuck! The "run into it and wreck it" line is fantastic, though it's "some stupid jerk tryin' to REACH ANOTHER NUMBER" that always comes to mind for me.

Another obscurity from GD III: "Viva Viva Rock and Roll," which isn't a great composition but is nonetheless cute, as the lyric tries to cram in as many Chuck Berry song titles as possible ("Sweet little sixteen, you will soon turn twenty-one; no more reelin' and a rockin', your school days will soon be done," et cetera).

I love the stupid jerk line too. What's so amazing about "I wish somebody'd come along and run into it and wreck it" is how he makes such a wordy line rhythmic.

I don't know Vol. 3 at all--played it once and shelved it. I'm sure there are good songs in there worth salvaging.

I've been working through it today - it's good listening but less of a "great songs" kind of deal. If they'd known they were going to eventually do six discs maybe they'd have spread the hits around more evenly - as it is, it feels like two packages of mostly hits, with some oddities and b-sides, and then one that's overwhelmingly the latter. Feels suddenly more "box-set-like" if you know what I mean.

This has been my go-to Chuck song these days — absolutely cooks. Those drums!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ2Z1oG1EEs

Wow, that's good. Man, if they were gonna put "I Wanna Be Your Driver" on these comps they could have slotted that in. Maybe I need to pick up Chuck Berry In London ... between that and his "St. Louis Blues" it sounds like a pretty hot session.

Recently discovered the Rolling Stones' "Come On" - their debut single! - and boyyyyyy is it lame. Kind of a skiffley/Merseybeat kinda version I guess, but it just makes the whole thing way too chill and pleasant-feeling. Also they change it to "some stupid GUY" which is really distracting (especially since they sing that part twice). In general I'd trust these guys to do some roaring covers but I'll take the Beatles' "Roll Over Beethoven" any day.

They did also do "Bye Bye Johnny," and it's got a little more grit and noise to it.

but I'll take the Beatles' "Roll Over Beethoven" any day.

Ditto. It took the Stones a while to do a decent Chuck cover...and it took the Beatles a while, too, but they'd been hammering away at Chuck's songs for years before they recorded any (and before the Stones even formed).

Recently discovered the Rolling Stones' "Come On" - their debut single! - and boyyyyyy is it lame.

Read that too fast, missed Rolling Stones, almost fainted...I think I have their version (on the import EP Around and Around?), but I don't remember it.

Andrew Loog Oldham picked "Come On" for the 1st single because it was the "Most Pop" number in the Stones' set list at the time, something I think he really encouraged when they arranged it for the studio.

No votes for Around and Around, but its got the coolest guitar sound

Holy shit, this list of songs!

I've probably heard at least one cover of each of these songs, as well as the originals.

In terms of sound, very little in the history of electric guitar recordings tops the opening to Maybellene... but yeah I do dig Around and Around.

Question: when Nadine gets into that coffee-colored Cadillac, do you picture (a.) a black Cadillac, because this is just a clever way of getting a standard black Cadillac into a song lyric, or (b.) a Cadillac that's some shade of medium brown?

I had always pictured B, but it just occurred to me that A is actually more likely.

Good question. I think of coffee-colored as brown fwiw. For Berry's purposes obviously what he's enjoying is just the alliteration of coffee-colored Cadillac — which both starts and ends with a hard "c." Dude could write.

sounds funky, but what about a "chartreuse Cadillac"? from 1950:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRXCeEcWjXk

2:17

https://hdpaintcode.com/files/cadillac-20.jpg

"cocaobar Cadillac" sounds cool too...

Wow, I had no idea there were so many colors of Cadillac. The cocoabar and the taupe both seem like they could be coffee-colored.

I always thought dark brown, and also always think of Springsteen in the "Hail! Hail!" doc, saying something to the effect that he's never seen a coffee-colored Cadillac, but damned if he doesn't know exactly what Chuck's singing about.

Speaking of Nadine, and going back to the Berry influence on Dylan discussion way up thread, I was at this show and this was the highlight of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLKODmOHIZU