quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a rolling new york times thread

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@NYC lol #own3d

beware the flying glass shards from those luxury condos.

Have just been reading those Peter Watts books in which ecological disasters/explosions send shockwaves into urban areas and shatter all the sheet glass from skyscrapers, which falls into the canyons of the streets and shears the pedestrians apart into little pieces, and broken glass and parts of people fill up the streets to the 2nd or 3rd story.

Glad I don't live in Midtown or the financial dist wot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/realestate/new-mortgage-limit-may-set-buyers-back.htm

eh not ruling class

article's not particularly obnoxious either

It's probably not ruling class for NYC, but $625k isn't chump change regardless?

pretty sure there are people on ilx w/ mortgages around that size

not chump change but still a subject that's relevant to a decent % of people reading the nyt, far more people than private planes to summer camps etc.

I'm just kind of shocked that a web site designer and an interior designer are taking out a 700k loan

yeah iatee otm, before the crash, $625k was a middle class house in the SF Bay Area.

Yeah, not ruling class. My eyes always get wide when I think of real estate prices like that but it's not really a thing.

It's probably not ruling class for NYC, but $625k isn't chump change regardless?

that's why you get a loan for it. for the ruling class that would be chump change, and they would just pay cash.

I'm just kind of shocked that a web site designer and an interior designer are taking out a 700k loan

why? idgi

those are not exactly the kinds of jobs that scream out "job stability" to me?

I'm incapable of comprehending how anyone can afford a mortgage that must be $2500-3500/month, tbh.

Some people are paying that much in rent anyway!

I know. It's insane.

those are not exactly the kinds of jobs that scream out "job stability" to me?

hmm ok. my experience is otherwise, but whatevs.

their job stability, as with a large % of people in nyc, is directly related to the ruling class

The apartment that my ex picked in Manhattan where I lived for a year was $2300. It slowly bankrupted us, as it happens, but we could have afforded it IF we had also made some lifestyle changes (which he refused to make).

where was it?

yeah the "buy a house first" logic probably really only holds in NYC and SF

14th St and 1st Ave, ground floor, back. About 500sf iirc. Total cave.

$2,300 is nothing in NYC and in some parts is really really cheap. In even the cheapest parts of Manhattan you'll expect to pay about that much for a 2 bedroom.

What can you buy for, like, 900K in NY?

^^^item I should google my damn self, I know.

a unit in washington heights?

actually I think it's easy to overrate how much of the nyc market is made up of $2000+ rents

relatively few people live in manhattan + nice parts of brooklyn and a decent % of that is rent controlled, housing projects, etc.

probably something nice in buffalo </lulz>

I found a renovated brownstone with a back garden, in Boerum Hill, on a realtor's website a year or so ago, and fell immed in total love with it, and they were asking 2 million at the time.

i think you could buy a whole street in buffalo for 900k

To qualify for a $3500 a month payment you only need to make around $150k a year, right? Which seems reasonable for two yuppies in NY.

people can make a steady 75k/yr from being a website designer? I thought that shit was mostly freelance?

I guess there are just that many restaurants that need Bad restaurant websites

people can make a steady 75k/yr from being a website designer?

uh yes. easily.

I thought that shit was mostly freelance?

no, but at any rate, freelancers can often make more than full time employees if they're good.

But then "website designer" is a huge term that encompasses a lot of very different situations. Same with interior decorator. That could be someone who just calls themselves an interior decorator and has only had one or two paying clients ever. Or I would imagine it could also include some successful and fairly lucrative businesses.

I guess there are just that many restaurants that need Bad restaurant websites

lol. and I suppose your idea of TV commercials is local spots for used car dealers?

I wish I were a yuppie / had $$$, there are 1brs in my neighborhood in queens for less than 200k.

The last interior decorator I had to put up with billed $100/hour. But I don't know how many hours each week she could actually bill for, etc..

okay wk but can someone make that money over the 10 or 20 or 30 years it's going to take to pay back that mortgage? is there even going to be an internet or a thing known as a 'web site' by then?

ya but it will be only used to look up menus for crappy restaurants

the only thing the internet will still be used for in 2031 is to see if Joe's Triple HD Pizza Emporium still has zero gravity fried guacamole on spaceball night

on some level I think you have a point, but at the same time, do you think they'd have second thoughts giving a loan to some mid-level person working for random house?

and income-wise, 20 years in the future - would you be someone w/ a lifetime of experience in publishing or a successful freelance web designer?

okay wk but can someone make that money over the 10 or 20 or 30 years it's going to take to pay back that mortgage?

I don't know, I've been working steadily in the field for about 16 years although I've only been paying a mortgage for half of that time. But more to the point, is this something banks should consider? Would it be fair of them to not give a mortgage to an autoworker since their job probably won't exist in 30 years? There are a ton of jobs you could apply that thinking to.

is there even going to be an internet or a thing known as a 'web site' by then?

A designer is a designer, and there will always be a need for graphic design.

depending on their ages (like if they're in their 20s or early 30s), they probably have the historically reasonable expectation that their incomes will rise in the next 20 years.

that's to say, in some ways freelancers w/ demonstrated skills and clients are in better places than lots of corporate people in nyc xp to myself

I'd have second thoughts about giving a loan to a guy who works in publications too! I don't think publications is that bad of a field either

a married couple I'm friends with who both work in publishing just bought a house last year. They had trouble getting a mortgage, but it was mainly due to location and the fact that one is employed by the other.

xp Oh, it is.

ok, I just cyberstalked those people and now feel all creepy but basically her career looks much more impressive than his. Although they're both self-employed so yeah, it may be a little tough to get a loan.

nyc is like the worst place to buy vs. rent in the whole u.s.: http://info.trulia.com/index.php?s=43&item=113

Remember we're also talking about the size of the *loan* not the cost of the house/apt/condo itself. The couple featured in the article were planning to pay something on the order of 3.5% down/ A quick look reveals that they're going to be paying roughly 4 thou+ a month. Interest rates are already hella low because of, well, everything. And the cap is being reduced to what it was before the govt. was trying to prop up real estate after the bust. Ok, I mean, if this impacts someone, that's too bad. But we're basically talking about the government ceasing to give a benefit to people that can afford 4k/mo for housing. So I mean, I guess this is a dick thing to say, but if that extra cost on the loan is going to put it over the top for you, then maybe you shouldn't be trying to buy a house with 3.5% down, or something?

this is a lot like the AMT though -- for lots of the country it only affects the wealthy, but in some areas it affects a significant number of middle class people that the initial legislation wasn't intended to affect.