S/D: Old-Timey Music (e.g., Prewar Gospel Blues, Bluegrass, Mountain Music)

Thanks, xhuxh. All the Yazoo titles are available on eMusic, so I can check them out right away. I assume most of these titles have well-presented, informative booklets, though, so I may want to buy some of the physical discs, too.

I'm headed for that Roots of Rap title today.

roots of rap is a cool record, although the title/concept is a little silly. those songs are kind of the roots of rap, but they're the roots of a lot of other things too. but any way you hear "jonah in the wilderness" is a good way.

definitely second white country blues. a few other good collections:

roots 'n' blues, apparently out of print now. (i got it cheap back when it was remaindered, well done me.) 4 discs, a mish-mash of stuff pulled from the vaults of the various labels columbia ended up with, by someone who seems to have had a lot of fun putting it together.

and i have 6 or 7 discs in rca's when the sun goes down series, which are all good. what's kind of amazing is that with so many compilations around mining the era, how little overlap you find with a lot of these -- not just songs, but artists. you get a handful of names that show up over and over (blind willie johnson, frank hutchinson, clarence ashley), but a lot of people who probably only recorded a handful of sides.

also, in case it needs to be said, everybody should have everything recorded by skip james and dock boggs -- at least their pre-rediscovery recordings -- each available on single-disc compilations (skip on yazoo, dock on revenant). and mississipi john hurt's okeh recordings (available in their entirety as avalon blues). on the new orleans front, champion jack dupree's early stuff is essential (and awesome and hilarious). lonnie johnson. big bill broonzy. bukka white. i mean, just so much amazing stuff from those years.

there's a good blind alfred reed comp too. "how can a poor man stand such times and live" is on a bunch of these anthologies, but all his stuff is good. ("why do you bob your hair girls?" is a great bit of anti-feminism.)

Excellent. I'm on it.

Stomp & Swerve: American Music Gets Hot 1843-1924 (Arceophone; soundtrack to a great book by David Wondrich. CD is actually even wilder in its pre-release CD-R version, which apparently includes lots of tracks Wondrich was unable to license, or something. But both versions are indispensible.)

You MUST tell us what was on the CD-R, xhuxk. Yousimply must (esp. cuz the final release is a bit stiff all around).

I just want to BRAG to you all, that it is my JOB (i get PAID FOR THIS) to post 78s on ebay, and in the process learn a shit ton about early 20th century American popular music.

basically any LP put out by the COUNTY label is good, btw. Mostly string bands.

Show off. I want your job, Ian.

basically any LP put out by the COUNTY label is good, btw.

Coincidentally, your comment is almost identical to the opening lines I was reading from an AMG review of this County Records comp:

Certain issues/reissues are greeted warmly by both reviewers and listeners because the name of a certain label guarantees a quality product. Such is the case with County, one of the premier traditional music labels.

You're right, BTW. Everything I've heard from County Records is outstanding.

that blurb reminds me that ol bascom is pretty cool too. (for whatever contractual reasons emusic won't let you have the most famous songs there, but the rest is plenty worthwhile.) one of the original appalachian folklorists, responsible for preserving a lot of those tunes.

I don't have that one Daniel, but it does look good! I do have one banjo comp on County--"Banjo Songs From The Mountains" or something like that. Whenever you get a title like "Old-Time Songs From The Southern Mountains" you know it's gonna be good. On our radio show a while back I played "The Broken Wedding" by Emry Arthur which is maybe my favorite cut as far as down n out pre-war country ballads goes.

also for like the sun sessions of prewar country-folk-appalachian stuff, there's the bristol sessions, 1927. first appearances of jimmie rodgers and the carter family, i think. maybe blind alred reed's first recordings too. i only have that, vol. 1, i don't know if there's a vol. 2. the full reissue from '91 is out of print. anyway great stuff. i went to bristol looking for traces of it, but apart from some plaques there's not much to see. (the carter family fold isn't too far away though, worth a visit.)

Anyone know anything about this label or line of comps?

I don't recognize the label, which makes me a bit wary. But that's a rebuttable presumption against the discs.

JSP was actually mentioned above. It's a reputable label. I have a Hoagy Carmichael disc put out by them (I think) and other titles which I can't recall right now. But no need to proceed with caution.

I forgot to mention the existence of a 1.23 GB torrent of approx. 1400 songs recorded 1888-1919. Here's a list of the titles:

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/20553460/jarvis+green

The only problem is that it will probably take you months (literally) to download the thing. But I have a copy (finally!) and can work a trade.

Hells no I haven't waded through the entire thing yet. But what's fascinated me the most so far is the non-music stuff - Cal Stewart's "Uncle Josh" monologues, little "scenes" by Weber & Fields, etc. If we only had several lifetimes...

Gracias! This will help me as I work through the night on a (semi-)deadline.

holy christ that's amazing.

http://oldhatrecords.com/isbf.html Old Hat Records who have reissued various old-timey things are sponsoring a neat event down in Georgia today--

Calhoun plans String Band Festival

The Second International String Band Festival will be on Saturday April 26 in downtown Calhoun. The festival was started to honor the tradition of string instrument performers who came from the region, including the Georgia Yellow Hammers, Andrew and Jim Baxter and Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers.

The event will feature a host of free performances throughout the day and a special evening concert in the Ratner Theater at the Harris Arts Center. The evening concert, which will feature several acts including the Red Mountain Band and the Skillet-Lickers II.

Free performances begin at 10 a.m. at the Old Hat Records Stage (on Court Street) featuring bands like the Cherokee Promenaders, the Little Country Giants and the North Georgia Ramblers. Performers will also take the Northside Bank Stage (in the park) beginning at 10 a.m.

Paging xhuxk:

Stomp & Swerve: American Music Gets Hot 1843-1924 (Arceophone; soundtrack to a great book by David Wondrich. CD is actually even wilder in its pre-release CD-R version, which apparently includes lots of tracks Wondrich was unable to license, or something. But both versions are indispensible.)

You MUST tell us what was on the CD-R, xhuxk. Yousimply must (esp. cuz the final release is a bit stiff all around).

Anyone heard 'People Take Warning! Murder Ballads & Disaster Songs (1913 -- 1938)? I got it from eMusic, so I don't have the (what I understand to be) wonderful packaging and liner notes, but the songs themselves are -- by and large -- outstanding, albeit maudlin and/or depressing, e.g., Memphis Flu, Storm That Struck Miami (since I live there (Coral Gables)), Burning Of A Cleveland School, Murder Of The Lawson Family, and Trial of Richard Bruno Hauptmann, Pts. I -- II. At three discs, it can be a bit much, especially given the subject matter, so it's best in small doses.

I've been curious about it, read several reviews of it, but never did seek it out.

This website http://eldiablotuntun.blogspot.com/ is recommended.
This ... site ... is ... incredible. All kinds of treasures, including ... ahem ... "Goodbye Babylon" (although not the sixth disc yet).

Question about Washington Phillips--Should I go with the one on Sanachie or is the cd on Document with the extra takes of the same songs by Blind Mamie And A.C. Forehand?

should say "is the cd on Document worth..."

And is there anything else out there by Blind Mamie and A.C.? Because Honey In The Rock = GASSSSP :0

Stomp & Swerve: American Music Gets Hot 1843-1924 pre-release CD-R version, apparently includes lots of tracks Wondrich was unable to license, or something.)

You MUST tell us what was on the CD-R, xhuxk

michael coleman - the monaghan jig (1921)
kumasi trio - yaw donkor (1928)
joe ayers - old dan tucker (1989) (? that's what it says; not sure if that's a typo or not)
pryor's band - falcon march (1910)
sousa's band - at a georgia camp meeting (1908)
sousa's band - trombone sneeze (1902)
peerless orchestra - whistling rufus (1904)
vess l. ossman - a coon band contest (1901)
ossman-dudley trio - st. louis tickler (1906)
arthur collins - all coons look alike to me (1899)
len spencer - you've been a good old wagon (1901)
polk miller - rise and shine (1909)
dinwiddie colored quartette - poor mourner (1902)
bert williams - nobody (1906)
bert williams - play that barbershop chord (1910)
afro-american folk song singers - swing along (1914)
europe's society orchestra - down home rag (1913)
versatile four - circus day in dixie (1916)
original dixieland jass abdn - livery stable blues (1917)
hickman's orchestra - avalon/japanese sandman (1920)
mamie smith - crazy blues (1920)
ed andrews - time ain't gonna make me stay (1924)
lanin's southern serenaders - shake it and break it (1921)
mound city blue blowers - arkansas blues (1924)
charles creath - market st. blues (1924)
alberta hunter - cake walking babies from home (1924)
uncle dave macon - old dan tucker (1925)

Y'all got any E C Ball?

Oh my GOD I completely forgot I had that book/cd.

Nice to see you slummin' on these old dusty relics - i can echo many items from upthread. xhuxk nailed a bunch of fantastic titles, many of which i have or have heard - and a few that i'll now need to.

Let me start by saying that Joe Brussard is a curator of the highest rank, that Charley Patton is THE man when it comes to country blues, and that Mountain Music and Bluegrass should never be confused as one in the same.

Harry Smith's "Antholgy of American Folk Music" is an assumed reference point, as are countless other recordings from Smithsonian Folkways; in particular i'd highly recommend Mountain Music of Kentucky - even though this was released in 1960 some of these traditions likely changed little in decades (given how isolated many of these communities were).

The "People Take Warning" Box delivers mostly with the packaging, but one that delivers on every front is this beauty from Dust-to-Digital.

The "Roots and Braches" comp i know of has a nice mix of early gospel and "pop" and can be seen on AMG.

Since the discussion has drifted into other areas you might also look at (the well-crafted and super-cheap) Proper's Farewell to Ireland (Proper has lots of other goodies like this Western Swing Box, which might even be trumped by their Bob Wills Box). But i'm getting a bit off course, no? Leave me to it and find a direct link from here to Javanese Gamalean!

Search ye all Fiddlin' Arthur Smith "There's More Pretty Girls Than One, Part 2"

Search: Darby & Tarlton

http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=16&product_id=5442&PHPSESSID=9a9fb17fcd67fae6add4ae599f97e0bd&prev_id=1731&next_id=4337

Thanks! That County Sales web site looks great. Any idea if the site is linked to County Records, which puts out some fantastic bluegrass, rural Southern and mountain music compilations?

(I always have trouble researching County Records. Name's too generic.)

Same label, Daniel.
I collect their old LPs, mostly the 400 & 500 series, but the later bluegrass-styled stuff as well if it's cheap enough.

I've been in touch with one of the folks who works there lately, and they apparently still have a bunch of LPs in a warehouse!

That label is a treasure.

Me & my buddy Keegan are playing old time music & country blues on our radio show tonight at 8pm on eastvillageradio.com, then it will be archived for a week.

HI GUYS WE ARE ON DA INTERNET RADIO NOWZ!!!

If I can't listen live (I'm going to try), I'm definitely going to check out the archieved show. Thanks for the link.

Just saw the Carolina Chocolate Drops. Yes their oldest member is just 31 (i.e., they're not on 78 rpm records)but they learned Carolina Piedmont style sounds from old fiddler Joe Thompson,and Old Hat Records Marshall Wyatt likes 'em.

where can I get that American Pop box set?

Here is a youtube video for a Skillet Lickers tune with politically incorrect lyrics.
How do people interested in this style of music deal with this kind of thing? When I first heard this particular tune, I was surprised by it only because I wasn't expecting it and was kind of embarassed to be listening to it. I know that racist & anti-black sentiment were probably fairly common among rural Southern whites in the 20s & 30s, but it was surprising to me that Rounder would have reissued that particular cut on LP well-after the N-word became highly unacceptable.

i own two versions of that song, one by the skillet lickers and one by uncle dave macon. i guess i deal with it by not listening to them. i don't mind that they're on the cds -- sort of helps to keep things in perspective. but i'd as soon not catch myself tapping my foot to it, you know?

(whereas i'm able to be amused by the awful sexism of something like "why do you bob your hair, girls" -- which i'm sure would make some hillary clinton voters nod their heads knowingly and say "see? do you see?")

If you guys don't mind I might use this to catalog youtube videos of old time music.

let's start with roscoe holcomb playing "john hardy." i was looking for clarence ashley videos, and i still like his version better, but this is really cool to watch.

and HERE is clarence ashley. with unknown accompaniment playing guitar. a comment for the video mentions doc watson as "an accompanist" but i do not know if that is watson playing guitar or not. do you?

skip james. i was thinking looking for the burnette & rutherford track. called "all night long" but this is still good despite the abrupt ending and lack of hand footage.

the only burnett & rutherford video does not feature any moving pictures at all.

this is the CREEPIEST THING EVER, WATCH WITH CAUTION IF PRONE TO NIGHTMARES:

xpost: no, here's a pic of clarence and doc:

http://www.ibiblio.org/DocWat/pics/p1903.gif

and how bout a little uncle dave:

did anyone get this? totally fantastic selection of Lomax recordings. pretty much everything here is golden.
http://lightintheattic.net/releases/2118-root-hog-or-die-100-years-100-songs-an-alan-lomax-centennial-tribute

Only 1,000 vinyl copies made...Looks good

Slightly off topic, but I think if you told me I had to go a year only listening to compilations curated by Christopher King, I'd be OK with that. I was excited to hear he has a book coming out in 2017.

totally -- the greek stuff he's done has kinda blown my mind.

Yeah, those two comps in particular--Why The Mountains Are Black and Five Days Married & Other Laments--have quickly become two of my all-time favorite compilations, and maybe two of my all-time favorite records in general.

Maybe this is more appropriate for the Greek music thread, but since we're already talking about this (and since the era is appropriate), does anyone know this comp / book? http://www.discogs.com/sell/item/262672213

don't have that one yet, looks great.
this chris king box is amazing: http://www.propermusic.com/product-details/Various-Artists-Beyond-Rembetika-The-Music-and-Dance-Of-The-Region-Of-Epirus-4CD-149705
and cheap, too (packaging is bare bones).

I've heard some of that one but don't own it (yet). So the liner notes are not up to the usual standards?

This isn't great, but fun, and gets better as it goes along (they credit New Lost City Ramblers for what they've lifted, and the folks NLCR lifted it from as well)(spoken stuff is is speedy, brief, and all at the beginning of this live-in-the-Stanford-radio-station set: no interviews, station IDs etc) orig posted on the Garcia side projects thread:
Just listened to xpost Hart Valley Drifters' album on Spotify (they've got a lot of JG sidetrips---the whole GarciaLive series to date, for a start---and even more Dead). Relaxed vocals, not nasal or otherwise trying to sound mountain-y---maybe a little too relaxed at times--but the picking is sharp and vivid, also without trying too hard, as Garcia trades off guitar and banjo with Ken Frankel; David Nelson's rhythm guitar and Robert Hunter's bass keep chugging along, and things get more engaging when Frankel plays fiddle for just about all of the second half (not much dobro that I've noticed, but Norm Van Maastricht gets bonus points for his name). Bluesier on "Sugar Baby" and then, right at the end, Mississippi Sheiks' "Sitting On Top Of The World", cool and bouncing us to another, contiguous world, just down the mountain aways, where Garcia has no prob suggesting Mississippi John Hurt sitting in with the Sheiks. I'd put this track in a Garcia acoustic comp (he's already the star here, but never ever hogging the spotlight, not that there is one).

― dow, Friday, December 2, 2016

Also digging Peter Stampfel and the Brooklyn & Lower Manhattan Fiddle/Mandolin Swarm's Holiday for Strings, which, on "New Polly Wolly Doodle", for instance, and also this string band version of "Telstar", and all over, really, is quite action-packed, without seeming too busy or tweety.

Mississippi John Hurt sitting in with the Sheiks

Add to Cart

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/arts/music/paul-oliver-authority-on-the-blues-dies-at-90.html?mcubz=3&_r=0

At his death Mr. Oliver left a 1,400-page manuscript on the Texas blues that he had begun writing with the researcher Mack McCormick in 1959. The project was abandoned after the two men quarreled. Mr. McCormick died in 2015.

Texas A&M University Press is scheduled to publish it in fall 2018, with essays by Alan Govenar and Kip Lornell, as “The Blues Come to Texas: Paul Oliver and Mack McCormick’s Unfinished Book.”

Cool that the Texas manuscript will come out(even if McCormick wasn't happy with it)

Oliver wrote a lot--After taking a trip through the American South in 1964, interviewing and recording blues singers, Mr. Oliver wrote “The Story of the Blues.” Published in 1969, it was the first comprehensive history of the genre and remains an indispensable work.

“Conversation With the Blues” (1965), an oral portrait of the music and the American South that included indigenous musical artists of every description.

“Screening the Blues: Aspects of the Blues Tradition” (1968) and “Savannah Syncopators: African Retentions in the Blues” (1970).

His other books on the subject included “Songsters and Saints: Vocal Traditions on Race Records” (1984), “Broadcasting the Blues: Black Blues in the Segregation Era” (2006) and “Barrelhouse Blues: Location Recordings and the Early Traditions of the Blues” (2009). His liner notes were collected in “Blues Off the Record: Thirty Years of Blues Commentary” (1984).

Stomp & Swerve: American Music Gets Hot 1843-1924 pre-release CD-R version, apparently includes lots of tracks Wondrich was unable to license, or something.)

You MUST tell us what was on the CD-R, xhuxk

michael coleman - the monaghan jig (1921)
kumasi trio - yaw donkor (1928)
joe ayers - old dan tucker (1989) (? that's what it says; not sure if that's a typo or not)
pryor's band - falcon march (1910)
sousa's band - at a georgia camp meeting (1908)
sousa's band - trombone sneeze (1902)
peerless orchestra - whistling rufus (1904)
vess l. ossman - a coon band contest (1901)
ossman-dudley trio - st. louis tickler (1906)
arthur collins - all coons look alike to me (1899)
len spencer - you've been a good old wagon (1901)
polk miller - rise and shine (1909)
dinwiddie colored quartette - poor mourner (1902)
bert williams - nobody (1906)
bert williams - play that barbershop chord (1910)
afro-american folk song singers - swing along (1914)
europe's society orchestra - down home rag (1913)
versatile four - circus day in dixie (1916)
original dixieland jass abdn - livery stable blues (1917)
hickman's orchestra - avalon/japanese sandman (1920)
mamie smith - crazy blues (1920)
ed andrews - time ain't gonna make me stay (1924)
lanin's southern serenaders - shake it and break it (1921)
mound city blue blowers - arkansas blues (1924)
charles creath - market st. blues (1924)
alberta hunter - cake walking babies from home (1924)
uncle dave macon - old dan tucker (1925)

― xhuxk, Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:02 PM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm on a serious old music kick at the moment. Made a mix/playlist of all these songs located on my mp3 downloader programs of choice (youtube-to-mp3/slsk) all songs located to the best of my limited abilities, and it FUCKING RULES.

btw, does anybody remember that blog that some (ex?)-ilxor had that specialized in old 1900-10s-era songs? Would love to revisit that, even if it's through the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

Think you're probably thinking of this - 50 Records That Matter, 1900-1919 - by Jonathan Bogart, but this is his current, more-comprehensive version - https://justonesongmore.com/

I am sometimes on slsk myself and have the source files for centuries of sound, user name is weejay

Totally forgot about this v. informative thread despite my posts---nowadays this is more the go-to, w fairly recent updates etc. all along: Pickers: a catchall thread for modern bluegrass, nu-old-time music, rootsy americana string bands, etc.

x-post OMG I sometimes forget that ILX is full of famous people, I just wanted to say that I love your Centuries of Sound radio podcasts and mixes I listen to them all the time! But I’m only up to the year 1917 because I end up doing monster deep dives for each year and it takes me about a month to get to the next year.

Anyway, that 50 Records That Matter blog is _probably_ the one I’m thinking of (I can’t really remember), but it looks amazing. Now I need to do a deep dive on those songs from 1900 to 1917 to catch up. So much great music!

in old-time 78rpm collector news, a 15,000 piece collection of old-time music & early country is being liquidated a few hundred every month by venerable music (a 78-specific auction website) -- really incredible stuff tbh. and i can't win even a fraction of what I meant.

xp if you're saying I'm famous then I'm very flattered and happy to hear it but I really don't think I am! & sure Jonathan would say the same if you meant him (though I think he's at least a professional critic)

You will catch up with me before too long if you're doing a year per month as I'm not working at nearly that rate myself.

joe ayers - old dan tucker (1989) (? that's what it says; not sure if that's a typo or not)

Not a typo. In the actual Stomp and Swerve book (which I’m currently halfway through and enjoying immensely), the author David Wondrich says:

In 1989, banjoist Joe Ayers recorded a cassette titled Old Dan Tucker: Melodies of Dan Emmett & the Virginia Minstrels, 1843–1860 (it's still not available on CD, as far as I know — which indicates the amount of call there is for this kind of thing). It's a sincere, skilled, historically informed attempt to reproduce the music of a century and a half ago.

Sadly, this cassette appears to have completely vanished off the face of the internet. Can’t find any information about it anywhere. If anybody has a copy please get it uploaded to youtube pronto!

Haven't heard that one, but you're reminding me that the late mega-collector and muso Joe Bussard sometimes recorded with his friends on 78, kind of folkie fantasy camp--as on this 2015 collection of originals and covers, that I blogged about in an annual round-up of worthies:

Although several of the promo files won't play, I'm getting some pretty strong early impressions of (most of) Joe Bussard Presents: The Year of Jublio---78 RPM Recordings of Songs From The Civil War. "Joe's got shit that God don't have," begins one blurb, and while that's always been true, his evident desire to depict via a range of material, starts with historically significant in-your-face sickly sentimentality x formalism, as written and performed (rich liner notes incl. discussion of attempts to redeem image of Confederacy via music, also redeeming image of fiddlers, but this is more like icky parlor music). It may be more about the renditions, like what are described as "maidenly" vocals; I do love the version of "Lorena" sung by Del McCoury on the mostly good-to-excellent collection Divided and United (which topped my 2013 Scene ballot's Top 10). And here we do get a rendition of "The Poor Old Slave, " in which straight-forward, non-tremulous sincerity finds its way unerringly among faded emblems, truth-based imagery (sung by ladies who may be maidens, for all I know, but don't make a big deal of it). Ditto the crisp, brisk "In The Cruel Days of Slavery." "Dixie" is all-instrumental, except for the occasional, too-cued-sounding cheers, and one brief, urgently spoken mention of those magnificent men massing outside----more old Rebs, mebbe, but this "Dixie" is all sinewy lide guitars and/or dobros, not the sound I usually associate with misty visions of the Confederate Lost Cause.
Bussard and friends play *Rebels Hornpipe" (recorded on 78, like he's been doing since the 60s, the 1960s, that is, so it's only a ringer chronologically).Starts strong, proceeds in a merry-to-dizzy, compulsive circle, in a way I def do associate with Confeds. "Pass The Bottle Round" starts as Rebel (maybe sometimes Union too) parody of the line, "John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the ground, but his truth is marching on." "Johnson Boy" is a fiddle-stomper about a local rake ("Jump girls, don't be afraid," girls unexcitedly join in on chorus), who gets drafted even though he can't see good, and keeps romping 'round the hotly contested countryside, though maybe fog of war will slow him down, as myopia alone didn't do, back under the presumably clearer skies of home---so,"Jump up girls, don't be afraid." "Sweet Bunch of Violets" starts as a tearjerker, but that's a set-up for revenge beyond the grave, hurrah boys!

Over his lifetime, Bussard amassed a collection of between 15,000 and 25,000 records, primarily of American folk, gospel, jazz and blues from the 1920s and 1930s.[1] From 1956 until 1970, Bussard ran the last 78 rpm record label, Fonotone, which was dedicated to the release of new recordings of old-time music. Among these were recordings by hundreds of performers, including the first recordings by the guitarist John Fahey. A five-CD anthology of Fonotone releases was issued in 2005 by Dust-to-Digital.[4] It was nominated for the Grammy Award for Best Boxed or Special Limited Edition Package in 2006.[2][5]

I spent a few days transcribing the discography from Tony Russell's great book Country Music Classics to RYM. They didn't have everything in their database but this was as close as I could get. I think There were 4 parts
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/stevolende/country-music-originals-the-legends-and-the-lost-pt1-old-timey/