quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a rolling new york times thread

seems as if she confused genetic fertility with... guys wanting to have sex w/ you bcuz you're pretty

Ding ding ding (sorry if you hate that)

But this is just another totally gross, insidious example of pushing a very shallow kind of desirability as if it is other things that it's not. Like fertility, or character, or anything except "based on nothing but your appearance/photograph, more strangers are likely to want to fuck you". It also disinherits the UN"desirable" from the ranks of people who are "allowed" to have the traits in question -- fertility, in this case.

And there's just so much class grossness in that package that my brain is pushing the whole article away and refusing to ponder it much more than that.

that young lady seems typical of those who moved here to live inside Sex & The City.

I think Louis CK will be Dennis Miller in ten years or less.

what the fuck kind of gypsy curse is that

haha

why
--remy bean

I have to get on a train, will respond later

k

In re Amy Andronicus, Yglesias says things.

I'm sure Rollins considered it "professional suicide" when he joined Black Flag too.

Okay this is surely related, via my friend Abby on Twitter:

Dude whining near me on the patio: "My sister already started an orphanage in Ethiopia and she's TWO YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME."

hey guys, shitting on academia as a source for job security should imo be a lot more controversial than you are making it sound
i mean i have a friend who worked trying to get poor kids into college & i think he wd probably disagree

i tend to think that college is a bit overrated & shouldnt be treated as an 'in' to complete job happiness, but

its also a major financial investment (college loans etc) that should probably promise some kind of return!!

idk, it just seems like there is a difference between feeling frustrated and undervalued at your job, and thinking that the only jobs that you *can* get are somehow beneath you.

― elmo argonaut, Thursday, September 1, 2011 4:15 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

feel like in our america of today the virtue and vitality of work has been debased and its sad

like only good jobs are good and everything else is a shitty waste of time

something is "wrong" with a system where a guy can get a (or multiple!) degree(s) and not find work putting those degrees to use! and frankly it feels sorta unfair to point and laugh at the guy who bought into the system when there probably werent a lot of alternative messages out there. im all for "get over it" in certain circumstances but this dockworker MBA didnt come up with the situation were in

max & cr?m otm

Nobody's shitting on academia, as far as I can tell. But, I'm sorry, the insistance that college makes you more 'worthy' of a good/stable/high-paying job is silly, and kind of elitest – and that if you go to college you are more deserving of one than somebody who didn't/couldn't/hasn't yet.

Mind you, I've got 2 post-bac degrees, and I've worked minimum wage for most of my career.

(i fucking hate it)

yeah idk i think most bad jobs are shitty, dispiriting wastes of time and its super gross for louis c.k. are anyone to be like 'dont complain' abt them

remy otm

like i can sort of see the argument that 'in our america of today the virtue and vitality of work has been debased' but i think that has as much to do w/ the type of 'work' ppl are being forced to do, rather than our prevalent attitudes towards 'working'

calling the dockworker MBA--or whoever is out there saying "i have a degree, i should be putting it to use"--elitist just occludes the fact that we have what is apparently a very broken system in place. it puts the blame on the people who were "screwed" (for lack of a better word) instead of the institutions doing the screwing

yeah idk i think most bad jobs are shitty, dispiriting wastes of time and its super gross for louis c.k. are anyone to be like 'dont complain' abt them

― *clicks 'OK'* (Lamp), Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh i think what he said is otm & funny but more in the "no one has dream jobs at age 20" sense

i should add that i dont really think theres anything "elitist" about wanting some kind of return for the time and money you invest in a college education!

most jobs are shitty –– if there's a truism in the universe it's that you don't have any right to be happy at work. it's nice, and lucky, if you are. but you should also feel very, very lucky to have a job at this particular juncture in history and not be a grudge-filled asshole about it.

like i can sort of see the argument that 'in our america of today the virtue and vitality of work has been debased' but i think that has as much to do w/ the type of 'work' ppl are being forced to do, rather than our prevalent attitudes towards 'working'

― *clicks 'OK'* (Lamp), Thursday, September 1, 2011 7:55 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think its def partially to do w/that, like good blue collar jobs dont exist anymore, but its also a state of mind thing imho

But, I'm sorry, the insistance that college makes you more 'worthy' of a good/stable/high-paying job is silly, and kind of elitest

really? i mean maybe not automatically but shouldnt at least have some correlation to them? and if it doesnt than what should? luck? ancestry? being handsome? nothing?

there is something inherently elitist in thinking that your time spent talking about chaucer in small groups of like-minded people qualifies you for high-paying work more than four years as an apprentice electrician running cable in the rain at 5am for $12/hr

yeah, that's hyperbole

if we believe that to be true why shit on the dockworker MBA?

but you should also feel very, very lucky to have a job at this particular juncture in history and not be a grudge-filled asshole about it.

so honduran migrants picking crops in south florida for a few dollars a day should just be happy theyre making more than they were in their villages?

i mean lol internet arguing tactics but i mean...

there's more than one conversation happening here

1) higher education is kind of broken, as is the economy

i do thinks its p fd up that everyone is always u need college to get a good job then these kids pay all this money to go to college then they cant get a good job and everyones like welp - but on the other hand you do have to be somewhat savvy in life to do well

wtf @ driving slowly to save gas

― call all destroyer, Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:51 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

iirc the sweet spot is 50-55 mph to get the best gas mileage

2) certain disciplines are maybe not a good idea to get a degree in anymore

horseshoe otm but really it's 1) america is broken

2) nuh uh

i do thinks its p fd up that everyone is always u need college to get a good job then these kids pay all this money to go to college then they cant get a good job and everyones like welp - but on the other hand you do have to be somewhat savvy in life to do well

I agree completely. I don't know where our signals got crossed.

a college degree is still advantageous for getting a job, fwiw

even a liberal arts one

3) people like to feel dignity and meaning in their work and it seems less and less possible in postindustrial america<--not just a problem for the upper middle class as far as i can tell

I agree completely. I don't know where our signals got crossed.

― remy bean, Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:03 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont think we were arguing iirc

a college degree is still advantageous for getting a job, fwiw

― D-40, Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:04 PM (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

even a liberal arts one

― D-40, Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:04 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah i didn't mean to suggest otherwise. this sometimes makes it hard to talk abuot what is wrong with academia, though.

otm

i do thinks its p fd up that everyone is always u need college to get a good job then these kids pay all this money to go to college then they cant get a good job and everyones like welp - but on the other hand you do have to be somewhat savvy in life to do well

yeah i mean in all fairness im p close in age to the ppl in that article and i was always told p blatantly that its not just enough to go to an elite college i had to get v good marks, have decent extracurriculars, spend my summers working at 'adult' jobs/interships &c &c so its not like i cant see why simply graduating w/ a b- average and summers spent surfing and playing in bands and working @ starbucks or w/e and youre not getting consulting gigs but @ the same time i cant spit on a dude for not yknow?

there are other conversations, like, yes sometimes 21 year olds are entitled about jobs because they don't know anything yet, but that doesn't mean that everyone's life should be backbreaking soulcrushing labor until they die

@ Horseshoe's #2) Yes, certainly. There are a lot of people who can't/won't/shouldn't attend higher education that are perfectly skilled and would be happy in jobs that are now requiring a college diploma. When a 4-year degree is required for an "administrative assistant" position that would be equally-well served by a 6-week trade school course and an apprenticeship under a senior secretary, everybody suffers –- the 4-year degree'd "administrative assistant" may feel stifled and like they're working in a job below their potential and skills, and the applicant for the job who would really appreciate it, and take pride in it, is left out in the cold.

4a) is the decline of unions or something

there is something inherently elitist in thinking that your time spent talking about chaucer in small groups of like-minded people qualifies you for high-paying work more than four years as an apprentice electrician running cable in the rain at 5am for $12/hr

a college degree has traditionally served as a signal (= this person is safer to hire than someone who doesn't have the degree). it wasn't 'elitist' to decide that this was a decent investment/goal/use of 4 years. the majority of people who made that investment in the 40 years prior came out thinking they made a good decision - that's why 'college is good, more college is better' has become universally accepted, and still is, even while there's mounting evidence that that isn't quite the case anymore.