People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

fair comparison

good article. lol at the AAA dude and Marty.

key:
"This does not mean people are getting to their destinations more slowly, as many might think. Studies have shown that reducing speeds from 40 MPH in urban settings to only 20 MPH has little impact on travel times; it simply means less time waiting at stop lights. New York may be at the end of hurry-up-and-wait driving. For pedestrians, though, the difference is huge. At 40 MPH, 70 percent of accidents are fatal. At 30 MPH—the legal speed limit in New York—only 20 percent of accidents are fatal."

zooming down city streets with traffic lights is just dumb but it's pretty much a given that most ppl don't actually know how to drive

is there a thread where we complain about how everybody else except you is a terrible driver

every driving thread ever

oh that's a good spin on an old dn

yeah its the new improved version

"Quoting a Transportation Alternatives spokesperson on what's good for drivers is the journalistic equivalent of quoting a Nazi on what's good for Jews."

lool

although i do h8 anyone that drives in an urban area

Oh, me too. Especially the ones who honks at you in a crosswalk when you're crossing at your leisure and they're trying to squeeze in a right turn on red. I straight up middle-finger those assholes.

do you only use your middle finger, and which one so I know which hand not to shake

right turns on red shouldn't be legal in urban areas to begin with

oh man now you lost me

I disagree with that, but I think that they are a special circumstance. I get a minor thrill every time I do one.

Red light cameras are a menace.

haha holy shit, literally the only return for this phrase is from where i live

http://transportation.spps.org/no_right_turn_on_red_when_school_patrol_is_present.html

a truly devilish variation

driving shouldnt be legal in urban areas to begin with

i mean hasnt anyone else even played simcity???

http://www.zuguide.com/image/Woody-Allen-Annie-Hall.8.jpg

"Max, I don't wanna live in a city where the only cultural advantage is turning right at a red light."

Right turn on red is great as long as you remember it's optional and pay attention to signs that say NO RIGHT TURN ON RED

When the city redid the freeway bridges, they ended up killing the visibility so all the exit ramps have those signs now. Some people still turn, and it sucks. Also, the jerks who honk at me for not making a right turn on red are awful. It's a goddamn option, I can wait for the green, maybe I have a reason to do so that you can't see!

Also, the jerks who honk at me for not making a right turn on red are awful. It's a goddamn option, I can wait for the green

YOU ARE HUMAN TRASH

lollll

there are so many weird inflections to the right-on-red, all based on people staring at other people through windshields and some imaginary stopwatch ticking away in your brain.

I turn left at red lights on occasion, from one one-way street to another. I always feel like such a rebel.

me driving lately:

http://www.tatteredcoat.com/images/heat-pacino-buggy.jpg

i would be happy if i never had to drive again in my life. maybe with the exception of a triumph in southeastern oregon.

I maybe do disagree on the bigger issues w/ gd and aero.

I agree with ~95% of what you say fwiw

i agree that right-on-red should be illegal anywhere there is a regular presence of pedestrians. if you wait for a green in a 'suburban' area with no pedestrians in sight you are a savage though

if there's a dense flow of pedestrians crossing the street, turning on red is often the only chance you get.

Yeah, and it's still illegal to turn right in Cal if there's someone in the crosswalk...

driving tip: if you cant turn right without killing a pedestrian, you should not turn right

depends on who the pedestrian is, imo

in pdx you can turn left on red when it's one-way to one-way

Yeah, and it's still illegal to turn right in Cal if there's someone in the crosswalk...
--I like wasting my emotions on the interwebs (Michael White)

never seen anyone get a ticket for this

I've even heard that you can sometimes go straight on a red in pdx. Have no idea how that works.

pretty sure it involves weed and gullibility

you can turn left from one-way to one-way in iowa

never seen anyone get a ticket for this

Me either but I have seen someone pulled over for failing to yield to ppl crossing in a crosswalk - kind of a tourist town kind of thing.

I've never seen anyone get a ticket either, but damned if I haven't slammed my fist down on a few trunks.

Yeah, and it's still illegal to turn right in Cal if there's someone in the crosswalk...

of course. but you stop at a red light, light turns green for the cross traffic and cars & pedestrians start to go. hopefully at some point the pedestrians have finished crossing the street and there's a gap in the flow of the cars, and you can turn while your light is still red. if you have to wait until your light turns green, then you're back at the start of another cycle where the crosswalk is full again. So allowing turns on red gives twice as many potential windows to turn in, and it doesn't have any effect on pedestrians since another batch of pedestrians will be crossing when your light is green anyway.

so the only solution would be a right turn green arrow and a period of red lights for all of the pedestrians

In fact, in parts of downtown San Francisco, where there's a maze of alternating one-way streets intersecting other one-way streets, there are don't walk signs during green lights on one side or another of the street depending on the intersecting street's direction since, with the density of pedestrian traffic, one might never be able to make a right or a left turn during certain times of day.

Or what wk said...

My town used to have a system where all the lights would turn red and the pedestrians could just take over, walking across the street catty-corner even.

like, on christmas or something?

never seen anyone get a ticket for this

Me either but I have seen someone pulled over for failing to yield to ppl crossing in a crosswalk - kind of a tourist town kind of thing.

― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:09 PM (9 minutes ago)

and this is great obviously - see people get pulled over all the time where i live too (college town) and they deserve it - pedestrians are hit every year it seems & last year a kid was hit by a bus & died

I guess they're known as "Denver Lights" (and still being used?)

And this:

An article titled “The Last Dance for Denver” in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal paid homage to that city’s unique pedestrian crossing system upon its demise.

And it recalled a time when Little Rock followed Denver’s lead and gave the system a whirl.

The system, dating back to 1947, was created when a young traffic engineer named Henry Barnes arrived in Denver to bring order to the city’s busy, chaotic streets, with pedestrians a main concern.

The plan? Every few minutes, all traffic is halted at an intersection for about 20 seconds to give pedestrians a shot at crossing.

And those hoofing it could cross any which way they choose — even diagonally.

The free-for-all for those on foot was tagged the Barnes Dance.

Other cities in the U.S. and abroad followed suit — London, Tokyo, and yes, even Little Rock began doing the Barnes Dance, back on June 15, 1954.

“What I remember most is the pride with which my father told me about them,” recalls Starr Mitchell, then a small child.

“I was with him the first time I walked across a street with the Denver traffic lights. I was equally as proud.”

Little Rock installed 11 Denver lights along Main Street, and pedestrians had 25 seconds to cross.

Paul Johnson of Hot Springs remembers driving to Little Rock via Highway 5 as a teenager in 1957 or 1958 with his high school buddies and their dates. The guys were on the hunt for $4.98 buttondown collar shirts at National Shirt Shop, while their dates wanted to visit Blass and Kempner’s Shoe Store.
“
I believe there was one at Capitol and Main that let you walk diagonally from one corner to the other on all four corners,” recalls Johnson.

The system, it seemed, was a mixed blessing.

Within 30 minutes of installing a Denver light at Markham and Main, it was removed by police after traffic backed up across the Main street bridge into North Little Rock.

Critics blamed the lights for slowing and congesting traffic, but supporters credited it for reducing pedestrian injuries.

As complaints flowed into City Hall, city leaders put the system on a 90-day hiatus, and a local civic organization, The Sertoma Club, took to the streets to survey pedestrians and drivers. The results? Strong opposition to the Denver lights.

By 1958, all of the Denver lights along West Capitol Avenue were removed, and eventually, the rest faded into history.

Back in Denver, while the unusual streetcrossing system is abolished, the traffic in all four directions will still stop simultaneously. Traditionalists who dare to cross diagonally now risk being slapped with a $40 jaywalking fine.

There are a few of those in Seattle - 1st and Pike (at the market) and a crazy 5 way intersection on Beacon Hill that I know of.

in the college town where my gf currently resides that system is in place at various downtown intersections. not 'officially' in place, afaik, but most people cross diagonally when both ped lights are green. I don't think the idea itself is inherently good or bad - the time amounted to cross (and frequency of ped green lights) is more important. in this city the wait time can be pretty long at some intersections but the city's small enough that jaywalking gives you more flexibility. (and cops don't care)

The downtown SF I mentioned above cycles through:

Green lights for cars and don't walk on one side depending on the direction of the intersecting street, allowing cars to turn off;

Red lights for alternating traffic (also w/the don't walk on one side of the intersecting street allowing those cars to turn onto the first street;

A 'Barnes Dance' which lasts about 15 or 20 seconds; and

back to the beginning of the cycle

Red lights for alternating to allow cross traffic

old town pasadena has "denver lights"

The free-for-all for those on foot was tagged the Barnes Dance.

old-timey lol