People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

well, in this magical world - if at any point price is becoming a limiting factor, they won't flee to the single-family detached home suburbs on the edge of the city, they'll flee to a newly densified area on the outer edge of the city, which will always be cheaper than whatever low density equivalent because new high density housing has economies of scale.

also "less crime" - outside of living completely isolated from society, there's no inherent link between crime and density. tokyo is safer than wherever you live.

and given human nature/desires, don't suburbs have to exist in some form?

what is human nature and what are these desires? cars and front lawns are recent inventions. we managed without these desires being satisfied for centuries. walkable urban areas are thousands of years old, exist across the world, are pretty much responsible for the rise of civilization etc. etc. - seems like there's more of an argument for 'human nature' there than in recent form of development dependent on a surplus of various resources. (I don't think 'human nature' has anything to do w/ any of this, even 'rational economic agent' isn't 'human nature')

had a thought and it may be mentioned upthread, but do you think that countries (and particularly cities) with long, rich histories are more inclined to support larger investment in long term projects like infrastucture? I feel like some of the worst planned suburban communities are happening in cities that are relatively young and perhaps don't have a sense of permanence that Paris or new York have (nor a paucity of available space the way Japan does I guess). it's like you would care a lot more about the next 50 years of your city knowing that this place has been around forever and you aree in some way connected to and responsible for its livelihood. not so maybe for the millions of ppl living in Phoenix or Houston or whatever postwar boom towns where sprawl is the worst (IOW there's nothing to ruin because there wasn't anything special that came before you, might as well take advantage of that space to build a certain kind of dream community lol it is actually a nitemare amirite).

you can't narrow it down to one thing but...it's not this one thing.

most places w/ rich histories pretty much followed the same overall path as the rest of the country. some of them just started out in a better place. there are some exceptions, but I mean, new york is building its first entirely new subway line in *70 years*. (in fact the system is actually less functional than it was back then, cause they tore down the els.)

other than that you are otm and feel free to speak for me while I'm gone

*moves to suburbs, flips "iatee" the bird*

there's no inherent link between crime and density. tokyo is safer than wherever you live.

i live in america, and generally there's more crime in cities. obv density doesn't cause crime, though

what is human nature and what are these desires? cars and front lawns are recent inventions. we managed without these desires being satisfied for centuries. walkable urban areas are thousands of years old, exist across the world, are pretty much responsible for the rise of civilization etc. etc. - seems like there's more of an argument for 'human nature' there than in recent form of development dependent on a surplus of various resources.

huge cities of millions of people are also recent 'inventions'! is it really unfathomable that some people (mr aerosmith being one, myself another) have very negative responses towards some aspects of modern city life yet also don't want to live in Bumblefuck? going 'no no really guys, you don't truly ~want~ lawns and dogs, come back to the city and de-isolate, it'll be super' just isn't going to work.

"we mangaged without it for centuries" can be said about like 80% of things that are now, for all intents and purposes, indispensable.

seems like there's more of an argument for 'human nature' there than in recent form of development dependent on a surplus of various resources.

'human nature' is a multi-faceted thing that can be self-contradictory. humans by nature are social. humans by nature desire privacy.

actually the 'nature' part gets in the way. humans are social. humans desire privacy.

ftr tho i don't think lawns need to be as prevalent as they are. i miss having one but its absence doesn't lower my quality of living all that much. but equating them to city parks just shows a lack of understanding their appeal.

-- gasoline powered mowers to maintain lawns (see above)
-- use of water-fucker-uppers like pesticides and herbicides
-- use of potable water to make green grass grow in dry infertile climates puts a strain on municipal water systems where one need not exist

--solar-powered mowers
--let that shit grow naturally
--let that shit not grow naturally

I saw my neighbor mowing his lawn with a push reel mower. I own two lawn mowers and neither works. I am thinking of not caring what anyone thinks, I need the exercise, they are cheap and won't break all of the time.

if it's good enough for the Amish...
i've only ever even seen one while clearing out my grandparents' shed
still have deathrage for neighbors who'd mow at 9am on a Saturday when i was a late-sleepin teenager.

we just sad "fuck it" and didnt maintain our "lawn" at all this summer, so I'm going to have to bust out my third-hand oil-leaking smoke-belching mower one more time before winter, but I'm definitely asking for a pushmower for christmas or something. so neccessary.

--solar-powered mowers
--let that shit grow naturally
--let that shit not grow naturally

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:51 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

looks like granny dainger just solved the suburbs

granny dainger what are the pros of having a lawn

iirc its human nature to want one

so get rid of subsidies/make people pay for externalities...what are all the consequences of that? more people move back to cities--->urban real estate gets even more expensive;

I don't mean to keep weein in your proverbial flange, gran, but I feel like you are missing a piece of the supply and demand puzzle. urban real estate is artificially high due to limitations on how much housing stock can be developed in urban cores from zoning restrictions etc. so increased demand alone does send prices skyward. but with the freedom to develop housing, ESP multi family housing, without the typical requirements that create sprawl means that the supply will in the medium term catch up with demand and prices will come back down to earth.

no offense but i feel like ur missin the key "solar-powered lawn mowers" element of the sprawl puzzle m bison

4 srs tho imma get that mower up to highway speeds and blaze past urban density tomorrow

fyi when we all move to new hampshire, if your human nature requires you to have a lawn, u can be the foreman on one of the farms where all the teenagers are forced to work

my human nature compels me to have acres of elaborately maintained gardens w/ topiary statues of knights and dragons, sorry

two words: solar-powered hedge trimmer

i make the interns use steel clippers to learn abt the value of 'sweat equity'

when u think about it... arent we all "solar-powered"?

not vampires

i think there has to be a move away from big castle in the country vampires and towards the more communal urban living of say the lost boys vampires

i think that the recent herzog doc underworld: rise of the lycans makes that exact case, also that the current vampire lifestyle relies on an unethical and unsustainable demand for cheap werewolf labor and subsidized blood

i live in america, and generally there's more crime in cities. obv density doesn't cause crime, though

With the exception of a handful of cities (like whichever one is the current "murder capital"), this is patently untrue for serious crimes!

huge cities of millions of people are also recent 'inventions'! is it really unfathomable that some people (mr aerosmith being one, myself another) have very negative responses towards some aspects of modern city life yet also don't want to live in Bumblefuck? going 'no no really guys, you don't truly ~want~ lawns and dogs, come back to the city and de-isolate, it'll be super' just isn't going to work.

what you ~want~ doesn't matter in the long-term, or rather, is always going to have to be put in perspective of 'what we can afford'. 'afford 'both in the personal financial sense and 'afford' in the greater, 'what kind of lifestyle is going to sustainable for coming generations'. the goal should be for those 'afford's to overlap. can you afford $13 a gallon for gas?

(http://catalystmagazine.com/component/content/article/45/1128-pay-at-the-pump-uncovering-the-true-cost-of-gasoline)

will stay in suburbs just so i don't have to be around people like max tbh

can you afford $13 a gallon for gas?

actually yes. but nowhere am i saying that suburbs as they are now are sustainable.

so have all car-based suburbs either convert to public trans-based ones or die; get rid of those zoning laws too, and?

and what, that sounds good to me

and solar-powered lawnmowers

granny dainger what are the pros of having a lawn

― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

having a need for a solar powered lawnmower, obv

ok then!
max are you not realizing that my 3 pt plan was tongue-in-cheek and meant to be funny or??

keeping max at a lawn-sized distance

xp

wait does that mean the whole thing about your sister living in a suburban train station was also a joke

jokes are funny, I get jokes. so glad to know that you're actually against suburbs, granny, and that this whole thing was a wind-up!

its really hard to tell the difference between your "tongue-in-cheek" posts and your "real" posts on this thread b/c theyre all similarly defensive and point-missing

hey why don't you tell me why millions and millions of people like having lawns, it's just SO mystifying!

god why would i be defensive against a raging smuck fuck like yourself?

thats what im trying to figure out!

who likes to "make people angry"?? mystifying!

so much sarcasm!!! cant really figure out whats going on!!!!????

what happened? I am confused.

I'm trying to follow it myself...I think max refuses to mow granny's lawn, but granny is rich and can afford $13/g gas

i am against car-dependent suburbs. i am also against urbanites who are callous towards people who don't want to live in urban areas and who would never have to make the sacrifice of living somewhere they don't want to because it just so happens they love cities.

I find it a very compelling argument that because granny dainger can afford to pay $13 a gallon for gas, that the America government should continue its policies subsidizing and encouraging the development of suburbs, why, because granny dainger can afford to pay $13 a gallon for gas

i'm not rich. my commute is 5 miles, and i can take the train to go places. suburbs are crazy huh.