if you go down there practically everyone is against a "war on drugs" as that's whats getting innocents blown up
― frogbs, Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:00 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
eh i dont think this entirely accurate, in the polls ve seen people are in favor of fighting the cartels, they just dont think the government is doing a v good job of it
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:16 (twelve years ago) link
i mean having a more peaceful situation where drug gangs run shit isnt really such a great situation either, and the level of violence now is proof that the gangs have been destabilized, whether thats going to lead to a good outcome i have no idea
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:18 (twelve years ago) link
not a great situation but they're not going to just destroy the cartels in a few years, which I've heard is what the current president is trying to do. they're waay too integrated at this point. granted people's opinions change on this subject once they've had a family member threatened or kidnapped. obviously everyone wants them out but declaring a full-scale war on drugs that's putting tanks on the street and guns in the hands of potentially corrupt officers at nightclubs is not the solution
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:28 (twelve years ago) link
im curious to know what is the solution
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:33 (twelve years ago) link
I have no idea, dealing with such an omnipresent force that's not afraid to kill innocents and especially politicans is not going to be solved overnight. I would imagine it would have to start from the bottom up, first they can fix their political process to actually get intelligent people in office (believe me when I say their election process is a joke and half the people in office are in no way qualified), start paying the police more so they aren't forced to go corrupt to make ends meet, and weed out all their high-ranking politicians who are publicly connected to the cartels. Everyone in America was outraged that Cheney had a big connection to Exxon Mobil, imagine that on a much larger and worse scale and that's what's happening there.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:40 (twelve years ago) link
yeah well its easy to say 'this is not the solution' but p much if youre going to try to root out these powerful well financed murderous gangs theyre going to end up killing a lot of people - im sure it could be done more skillfully than the mexican government has - but i doubt theres any sort of easy way to go about it - and of course mexico has tons other problems
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:43 (twelve years ago) link
anyway drugs need to be legal in the usa then we can relate to our own problems
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:47 (twelve years ago) link
Exactly - there are probably like 4-5 "real" solutions and so far legalizing drugs is the only one that makes any sense whatsoever
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:50 (twelve years ago) link
unfortunately mexico cant legalize drugs in the usa
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:55 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not talking in regards to what Mexico can do, I just mean a solution in general. Like I think a U.S. invasion could solve a lot of things but obviously that's not going to happen. As I mentioned I don't think Mexico can do anything that will show results anytime soon.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:59 (twelve years ago) link
i mean having a more peaceful situation where drug gangs run shit isnt really such a great situation either
That was one of the interesting parts of the New Yorker article from earlier this year (linked somewhere here, though I think it's subscriber-only). It described a peaceful region, with rehab clinics run by the cartels, schools provided for, etc.--the Mafia template.
― per metal injection (Eazy), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 15:24 (twelve years ago) link
just do what they say and everythings cool
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 15:29 (twelve years ago) link
yeah must say that im always a little suspicious of peoples motivations in these situations re recycling or not doing coke or w/e - they often seem to have more of an appetite for condemning the actions of others than attempting to grapple w/the complexity of the situation or like acknowledge moral failings in their own lives
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:42 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
is anyone here really 'unwilling to grapple with the complexity of the situation'? idk i think its perfectly legit to judge ppl at some level for using something casually that is obviously harmful to lots of people!
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:48 (twelve years ago) link
like, obv i have failings, i try to be honest about those too, but it doesnt mean im not going to condemn someone for making a decision that seems u know WRONG
like hopefully none of my failings happen to fund the murder of innocents (obv just being an american makes this impossible but i dont have many alternatives to paying my taxes unfortunately)
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
i feel like this exact conversation has happened on another thread
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
thread(s)
i am sympathetic to iatee's view, but i also know that because everyone can't stop doing coke, we have a national policy (drug war) that unfairly targets minorities and the poor.
― funk master friendly (moonship journey to baja), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
maybe you can have a drug war that doesn't, idk
― funk master friendly (moonship journey to baja), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:50 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
possible yeah i guess nothing that im saying is new in this convo, i guess i was taken aback by ice craem's argument but maybe hes just saving this one for the 'learning how to troll' thread
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:54 (twelve years ago) link
he has used that argument before - i think on me, in fact! it just seemed like deja vu.
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
D-40 totally and 100% otm.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
whatever makes you guys feel better about yourselves, I guess
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:01 (twelve years ago) link
it feels just great to think about all the children dying in mexico, thats why i do it
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:22 (twelve years ago) link
well if we're gonna start talking the impotence of recycling we can just segue straight into "is anybof this shit reaaaaaaaaally gonna matter when the environment starts getting especially 'interesting' in 50 to 75 years?" (a: no.)
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
50-75 years? we're already there
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
not quite at the americans shanking each other for drinking water stage yet, but as always i welcome the apocalypse to get here as soon as possible.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
recycling is a valuable activity
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
so is saving energy
doing coke, not so much
lol I love the A++++ iatee and frogbs trolling itt
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
i resent any trolling itt tbrr but i guess i've been pretty humorless about this topic for the better part of 20 years
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
iatee isnt trolling afaict
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
not on purpose, at least
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
i mean i think hes otm & isnt really contradicting anything, just on some 'just recognize that this wont stop the problem, the real problem is systemic' realism
Yeah, I agree with him wrt to that, but its his comparison to recycling that made me rmde.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
ice cr?m's idea that the violence is not just a symptom of the status quo but a possible consequence of things getting better is way more "trolly" (ie provocative) imo
― banana mogul (goole), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
if only people loved one another, the world would be a better place
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
Tonight, I'm going to do a big rail and then throw away a bunch of plastic six-pack holders without cutting them up first.
I'm just one man, can't make a difference anyway.
― Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
recycling was just the first thing that came to mind when I needed contrast w/ something an 'ethical consumer' does
ice cr?m trolling is a given
xp
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
btw I want to point out that my wife is putting a lot of the blame on Calderon and kind of suggests that the he's a terrible president as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't been assassinated yet
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
ppl should probably stop doing coke, its obv super lame, sorry you dont know how 2 have fun w/e but lets get realistic demand is not going to become 0 and the us govt should probably just give up fighting the war on drugs already, how many crappy bands do we have to suffer i ask u
― señorita buttstench (Lamp), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:51 (twelve years ago) link
mexican drug lords did foster the people
― dayo, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
― banana mogul (goole), Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:59 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
its a more interesting point than saying that ppl who disdain casual coke use are secretly hypocritical or w/e
― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:54 (twelve years ago) link
the response to which is "and?"
there are tons of great coke bands!
― max, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
not recently i guess but man, the 70s, wild times
― max, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:58 (twelve years ago) link
the hypocrisy isnt really all that secret is it?
― señorita buttstench (Lamp), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
fyi i was referring to the terrible buzzband 'war on drugs' when i was complaining abt 'the war on drugs'
oh
― max, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
lol @ dayo
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 23:03 (twelve years ago) link