quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a rolling new york times thread

If you have to have a deep understanding of every menu item and dish/drink combination before ordering, then maybe you need to come back to the restaurant a few times. Or just figure out how to make a decision.

He says he feels a little frustrated on those rare evenings when she gets a bit tipsy and goes to bed early

yeah she sounds like a real connoisseur

I am willing to pander to this newly-identified dating problem with my new self-help ebooks, "dating a yelper: a survival guide" and "how to love someone who doesn't love food"

Hard ain't it hard ain't it hard

true story: once, my GF went to a Seattle restaurant (Tilth, I think?) where she had a terrible, terrible, dish. The chef, Maria Hines, – newly laureled by James Beard – heard her say it wasn't tasty, and came out and yelled at her for having a bad palatte.

eh, my dad is a big oenophile and a lot of the time hell talk to the sommelier for 10 or so minutes before ordering and it doesnt really seem annoying or whatever? like just a couple guys talking about something they care about. sounds almost like dudes talking about football or whatever

I guess it's not always that bad but I think that quizzing a chef (especially if he's working and presumably busy?) for 20 mins. is a little ridiculous. Sometimes people need to get over themselves and just trust.

sounds like he's justifying the sommelier's existence

Unless the person is from Zagat's or something and there's a review involved. Then they can ask away as long as they like.

yeah i feel like that sentence is not being entirely clear about the situation, hard to think of an actual chef who would answer a twenty minute quiz from some random diner in the middle of dinner hours

Maybe they're the sort of chefs who attach their names to restaurants but aren't actually in the kitchen? It is a weird one, no doubt.

it must have happened once in some little restaurant or something and she told it as an anecdote and the writer slipped it in--it just says "can question" not "often questions" or whatever

yeah ENBB head chefs of fancy places are often in the restaurant just to impress the customers but describing the convo as a "quizzing" makes it sound unbearably irritating

Yeah, exactly.

imagine his hot-faced embarrassment as she questions the chef
imagine her barely-contained contempt for his pasta dish
imagine real people, with real problems

foodieism more quidditish than lapping up horserace politics, apparently

true story: once, my GF went to a Seattle restaurant (Tilth, I think?) where she had a terrible, terrible, dish. The chef, Maria Hines, – newly laureled by James Beard – heard her say it wasn't tasty, and came out and yelled at her for having a bad palatte.

This is just straight up jerk behavior.

There's a fine line, and sometimes even an overlap, between behavior that just suggests being really passionate about something and behavior that says "look how much more special and refined I am than all of you" or "nothing is good enough for me."

^^^^^^^^^^

A very fine line.

I think if you're going to spend that much time questioning the waiter and/or chef about how your meal is going to be prepared, you should have stayed home and cooked for yourself.

My father-in-law also vetoes his own daughter's orders if they're not "the right thing to order here," and he won't let anyone at his table order a standard salad at almost any restaurant even if they really just want a salad.

foodfascism

The foodies I know are the ones who are most likely just to pick a few things and order, it's the really picky eaters who tend to have an elaborate series of questions for the servers.

That's true. I think true foodies would just be like "Give it to me" whereas the picky people are like "Could you substitute this instead of that, and hold this other thing, and make sure it's really well-done, and, etc., etc."

A former sommelier who judges wine competitions, Ms. Charles can question the chef for 20 minutes before ordering at a restaurant

I understand this impulse though - you've invested all this time and effort acquiring this obscure and esoteric body of knowledge, and have nobody to talk shop with during normal people time. so you meet someone who you think 'shares' your passion and all you wanna do is talk bullshit. I get this all the time from photography & coffee nerds.

still, all of these people should be shot

what is a 'true foodie?'
is it like, a 'food hipster?'

also lol at the idea that 'true foodies' aren't by definition picky eaters

depends how you define picky. Picky about quality of food or ingredients? "True foodies" tend to order food and want it as it's supposed to be served. "Thai spicy" "chef's choice" etc.

foodies tend to be a lot pickier about the places they eat than what they eat when they get there.

also instead of "true foodies" can we use the term "authentic foodies" for maximum eye rolling

OTM. xp

A "foodie" who is excited and curious about food and eager to share with others how awesome some food or drink is, is one of the greatest people you can know. And maybe they learn stuff about tastes that others might not pick up on, but there is a difference between having a developed palate and being the princess and the pea.

Snobs ruin good things. It's like how the language we use about wine ("nose of cherry, coffee on the finish") were developed to make wine accessible to the masses b/c the things they described were quantifiable and tangible. Previously, wine was described in abstract, personality-like terms that made appreciation of wine seem mysterious. But then jackassery entered the terminology and you have people describing wine as having "hints of unripe hackberry" or "Welsh book leather" some obscure, absurd shit. At a wine class at the restaurant I worked at, a vendor was describing flavors using Latin words for ordinary fruits. It's that kind of malarky, you know?

are you a 'foodie'

Jesse OTM.

cosigned

"It smells like bat-wing dust," he told her.

lol

hints of unripe bat-wing dust

"smells like bat-wing dust" kind of gives less a foodie vibe and more of a warlock vibe

It's like the difference between having a hobby you're enthusiastic about and being able to convey that enthusiasm to others in a way that they find your simplified talk about the subject to be interesting, and trying to talk shop regardless of location and time.

I like having friends who are technical in ways I'm not when they're able to tell interesting stories that relate things in a non-technical manner, or when they are able to transparently use that expertise. A friend who is able to glance over a wine or dinner menu, ask a few specific questions of the server, and then quickly come to a decision is much more impressive, imo.

I love eating and cooking new and interesting things but I'm not a dick about it. I also tend to trust people at restaurants to bring me what they think is good which has led to some of the best dining experiences.

^^^^^

I'm also equally cool with eating at subway or a Michelin starred place. Both have their time and place imo.

Subway was just the first place I thought of but you know what I mean.

'pickiness' in anything is like my least favorite quality.

we need to have a poll about eating out w/ friends: is it about the FOOD or is it about the COMPANY? (can't be both because we need to make hard choices on ILX)

food should be appreciated when it is great and suffered with grace when it is not

To be honest, it's worst when both are mediocre

Jesse otm

a bro of mine went through a "wine phase" and i benefited greatly, both in learning and in free wine at tastings. geeking out about stuff is fun. i'm a little surprised that ilx, which has literally hundreds of thousands of words spilled over myopic mutual masturbation, is getting het up about ppl that like food more than other people.

ffs we have had epic blowouts about HOT DOGS v. TACOS

Tacos

hot dogs

Such strife here.

I had hot dogs at lunch and wished they were tacos.