not really, but i'm the only person that's going to agree w/ you on that
no I totally agree that Borat is racist bullshit
sad misreading of Precinct 13 upthread wtf
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
What race is Borat denigrating, exactly?
― Bam! Orgasm explosion in your facehole. (DJP), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
Whatever the entirity of eastern Europe is?
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
lucky generic Asian
uh this is a really big stretch
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:32 (twelve years ago) link
Believe Kazakhs weren't too thrilled - although it was really Eastern Europeans he was targeting, he didn't bother to find out anything about Kazakhstan (xp)
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
the "strange/backwards eastern european" comedy character runs way back (Chico Marx, Yakov Smirnoff, etc), it's an old ethnic stereotype and it's not like Borat did anything that inventive with it, he just upped the gross-out factor. that people though Borat was THE GREATEST COMEDY EVER for some reason was just sad.
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:40 (twelve years ago) link
I went to high school with someone who was legitimately named D** D****. In retrospect, given that his whole family were the first and only Vietnamese people anyone in Whitehall had ever met (and probably the only ones some people WOULD ever meet), I wonder whether they were more affected by stereotypes like LDD or whether everyone else was just so flummoxed by having a whole family of non-adopted Asian people as neighbors that it never came up.
― It means why you gotta be a montague? (Laurel), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:41 (twelve years ago) link
Chico Marx?!??!?!?!?
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:41 (twelve years ago) link
Hey whassa matta f' you!!!!!
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
Is it? I don't remember them mentioning what country he was from. The name is a joke and not particularly indicative of any specific Asian country.
I though part of the joke about Borat is that he's Kazak but his vocabulary is sprinkled with idioms common to Russian Jews.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
I know someone with the last name of Duong but you pronounce it with a t or a v consonant sound instead xp
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
MW - have you seen that clip I posted upthread? the whole character is an absurdist, cartoon parody on the level of jar jar binks.
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
I mean, calling that character a 'generic Asian' implies that there are people who act like that in real life, and that you can find them in Asian communities - which is just patently untrue.
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:46 (twelve years ago) link
And then there's Ali G...
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
Leonard "Chico" Marx (March 22, 1887 – October 11, 1961) was an American comedian and film star as part of the Marx Brothers. His persona in the act was that of a dim-witted albeit crafty con artist, seemingly of rural Italian origin, who wore shabby clothes, and sported a curly-haired wig and Tyrolean hat
great example there of the pervasiveness of racism eastern Europeans
― Bam! Orgasm explosion in your facehole. (DJP), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
Ravelli (Chico): "How did you get to be Roscoe W. Chandler?"Chandler: "How did you get to be Italian?"Ravelli: "Never mind — whose confession is this?"
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:49 (twelve years ago) link
Chico's ethnicity was always indeterminate, which was part of the joke. My larger point was that the stereotype of a strange European immigrant is really common in comedy, and acting like the character is not based on an essentially racist premise is just wrong. see also: Cozen Larry, Latka, etc. we went over this on the main Borat thread.
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
Borat is a lot more complex than a simple caricature like Long Duk Dong. Although Borat is constructed from elements of stereotype and caricature, there's an ambiguity about exactly who he represents. More importantly, he's not the butt of the jokes - the "normal" people he interacts with are. Also, the audience is always in on the joke that Borat is a constructed character - so there's an element of distance from the stereotypes. A lot of the humor is watching people react in a stereotypical way to something we know is a ruse.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
'generic Asian'
I meant non-specified in terms of country.
There's plenty of anti-Italian humor in 30's films, btw. 'Top Hat' for example.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
Although Borat is constructed from elements of stereotype and caricature, there's an ambiguity about exactly who he represents.
uh no he is depicted very specifically as being from an actual country where actual people of an actual ethnicity live - Kazakhstan
More importantly, he's not the butt of the jokes - the "normal" people he interacts with are.
really. all those jokes about horrible wife's "wizard sleeve" and his joyously anti-semitic community and his broken diction, he's not the butt of that material? gtfo
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
uh they make it pretty clear that he's from China xp
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
Also, the audience is always in on the joke that Borat is a constructed character
lol what movies do you watch where you're NOT sure the characters are constructs
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
Oh boy a Borat argument in 2012!
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
just because it's a construct doesn't mean the construct isn't fundamentally racist
xp
I far prefer Borat in short TV segements, btw. I'm partly convinced the movie came about because SBC figured everyone in Britain knew who he was and it didn't make sense to go the US unless they got a lot of footage.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
Money
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
Fair enough. I haven't seen the movie since it came out.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
What makes me uncomfortable about both characters isn't that kind of racist stereotype that says 'X ppl are like this' it's the condescending view that an attempt at versimilitude of any kind is pointless and the audience neither knows nor is curious about a credible Chinese or Kazak character as long as they're funny in a 'quirky' way.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
Revenge of the Nerds is PACKED with this stuff, PLUS it ends with a comic rape scene!
Revenge also had the Asian stereotype character but doesn't go as far as Sixteen Candles does. but yeah re-watching it I do find it funny how the nerds are supposed to be the good guys even though they are as unethical as the jocks, and maybe even worse (videotaping naked girls without their knowledge, and of course that whole sex scene that's like the most implausible thing on film)
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
ROTN was explicitly created to be as offensive as possible - all the gratuitous nudity, racist stereotypes, homophobia etc were deliberate
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:16 (twelve years ago) link
(not defending it btw, just noting that the screenwriters would not dispute the film is racist, sexist, etc)
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
that people though Borat was THE GREATEST COMEDY EVER for some reason was just sad.
I found a lot of stuff very questionable about the movie and hate the way it was explained by the people who loved the it - like, when he's doing the "manners training" and he brings the hooker, a lot of the glowing reviews said "watch as Borat exposes a group of Southern people to a black woman and see how horrified they are, aren't they terrible racists" when it's like, you bring in a white woman dressed like that and you'll get the exact same reaction, shut the fuck up, it's clear that the movie wasn't about exposing anything. Bruno is the same way, I hate when people say things like "look how Sacha Baron Cohen is exposing America's homophobia!" when you could almost argue that it's worse to NOT be offended by his behavior.
the only point of those movies is to be funny, and to be honest I laughed a lot at both
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, the 80's were a weird time of political incorrectness; I realize a lot of this stuff still exists, but the sex/rape scene probably wouldn't fly today, nor would half the stuff on Sledge Hammer
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
like I saw the awful movie "40 Days and 40 Nights" which also ends on a rape scene (woman on man though) and found it shocking that it was allowed to be in the movie
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:28 (twelve years ago) link
how would you have felt if it was a man on woman one?
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
horny
― i couldn't adjust the food knobs (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
(j/k)
oh man, 40 Days and 40 Nights...
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
iirc he's basically hallucinating at the end due to going that long without sex
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
you mean, what if a woman tied herself to the bed and a man broke into the house and raped her? in that case I'd probably be watching a Gaspar Noe film which means I'd be pissed off already
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
that's true but when he wakes up, he's being rapedwhat makes it even worse is that his current girlfriend blames him for it too, as though he had a lapse in judgement and winds up apologizing for it
if the roles were reversed here the movie simply wouldn't exist
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:36 (twelve years ago) link
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:16 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark
ah, the vice magazine approach
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
yeah it was an incredibly dumb and offensive movie
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:38 (twelve years ago) link
heh glad I can cross it off my to-watch list - it's often big upped in nerd communities as being a movie 'about us'
― bob loblaw people (dayo), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
it's not really about nerds.
the song they do at the "talent show" is funny tho
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
I mean just... waht. they dress the asian guy up as a native american for no apparent reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mRG2oAQhso
― The Silent Extreme (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:45 (twelve years ago) link
Revenge of the Nerds is a documentary
― buzza, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno, the scene in Cannibal the Musical where all the native americans are played by Asians is pretty funny, especially since the movie was low budget and didn't involve any actual actors so they did have the excuse of "we didn't know any"
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
*strikes comedy gong*
― buzza, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
I was going to say that the Asian stereotype in ROTN wasn't nearly as bad as Sixteen Candles and then I remembered "Hair pie?" so uh never mind
― Bam! Orgasm explosion in your facehole. (DJP), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 17:57 (twelve years ago) link