Occupy Wall Street 3: Now What?

lols

ha!

good words hoos

http://www.anarchistnews.org/node/21556

^^ this post takes a lot of wide shots for its first half but then really settles down into some painful constructive criticism in the last stretch

But the appeal of Occupy was that the inherent crises of capitalism are finally affecting almost everyone (save the mythical 1%); it was beginning to look like critically -- even radically! -- examining capitalism itself in a more mainstream context was no longer taboo; it was beginning to look like a class-based critique was becoming acceptable discourse. With the usual professional Leftist intelligentsia more firmly in control of the content and direction of Occupy Oakland tactics and strategies, however, the likelihood of a return to that initial wide appeal -- based on the workable and attractive principles (although not without their unique problems) of non-hierarchical decision making and the refusal to issue demands -- seems practically non-existent. The potential gateway that Occupy offered for truly radical critiques and ruptures -- especially and specifically those offered by avoiding the usual Leftist trajectory of becoming bogged down in the sectarian squabbling and false opposition to capitalism of Party Marxism -- is now more remote than ever.

The militant posturing that raised the stakes of confrontation at last week's press conference was one more example of how out of touch the self-appointed grandstanding leadership has become. What were Oakland's Mayor and Police Department supposed to do to save face? Was there any other response anticipated by OO's leadership than the usual brutality we've come to expect from OPD? Whatever happened to the strategies of those who know they are less powerful, like ridicule, like picking battles we can occasionally win? We already know who will lose in those frontal confrontations, but apparently the Occupy bureaucrats can't be bothered to remember something so mundane as the history of radical movements.

lool

hoos if u use the osama pic as yr twitter profile next time yr on w/democracy now this could be reality not just a wonderful photoshop, think abt it

well done hoos.

now receiving random troll comments on my twitter, blog & random blog comment responses i've littered around the internet

lol

Good job!

Loving how everything, even (especially!) disorganized running confrontations with the OPD can be chalked up to nefarious "professional Leftist intellectuals," apparently repeating "failed strategies and tactics" which crippled, among other things, the anti-nukes movement. I don't even.

yeah, that doesn't seem to be what's at work here.

oh man i could've been listening to a HOOS this morning when i walked into work and not even known it!

i'm a little flabbergasted at what some people are saying on here, but i think that most of it is simply ideological differences coming to the fore. and tbh, i don't really have time to argue with state apologists and those who support the state's fascist foot soldiers. too many of my friends are sent up shit creek right now (last count was something like 50+ people i know personally and somewhat intimately) for me to care what some douchebag thinks about squatting and notions of private v. public property.

a few things, though:
- sarahell right on above: it is extraordinarily difficult and shitty to try to get a community center started in Oakland.

- the panthers did get shot at and did accomplish a lot. one of the differences between them and OO folks is that we can't carry AKs onto the streets.

- some interesting words on kettling: "There’s something to be said about the fact that kettling, as a counter-tactic of control and policing within crowd dynamics, has not yet forced greater innovation and experimentation in the tactical realms of communication and insurrectionary strategy. The Paris Commune of 1871 functioned according to a defensive strategy which viewed the metropolis as a series of blocked out buildings and structures which could only be entered and exited via the streets, alleyways, and boulevards which effectively acted as the only arteries in and out of the metropolis – the only way to traverse the city. Thus, the logic followed, that if you barricaded enough positions within these metropolitan arteries you could effectively hold the spaces you were in. What famously brought about such logic to an end was the innovative practice by government/Army of Versailles troops to quite literally “move through walls.” Blasting through buildings and creating holes in walls to allow for anti-communard troop movement behind communard barricades, proved to be a major innovation in urban warfare."

- City Hall didn't get broken into— this is the City saying this. the doors were actually unlocked, as they often were until around 8 pm most nights for meetings, etc. no more, obviously.

- some more footage of what went on during the evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wTum1mSpkK8

and tbh, i don't really have time to argue with state apologists and those who support the state's fascist foot soldiers.

i don't recall anyone explicitly or really even implicity "supporting... fascist foot soldiers." that's a straw man. if your goal is to correct misimpressions or persuade anyone, insulting those who disagree with you on tactics is probably not going to be very effective. in fact i'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that any argument that begins with one party calling the other fascist sympathizers is unlikely to lead anywhere productive.

it's also not going to do much good for your cause(s).

the paragraph on kettling confuses me. it sounds like what the cops in oakland were doing is not the same as what the french army was doing in 1848. i thought "kettling" basically meant essentially hemming protestors in and then moving them to a place where they can be easily arrested.

http://www.cheapflights.com/flights-to-vichy/oakland/

also you're probably going to tell me to fuck off but honestly i'm thirsty for knowledge about what went down and am really interested in hearing a variety of perspectives. it seems like the police broke the law as well as their own rulebook and this should be well advertised and hopefully pursued in the courts. so we have a lot of common ground. unfortunately by calling anyone skeptical of occupy oakland's tactics fascist sympathizers you seem hell-bent on destroying that common ground.

sorry for long posts but i'm driven to write because i appreciate your fervor as much as i resent your name-calling.

xpost

?

lol dumb charges of fascism made me think of vichy, oakland

dumb question but:

under what law(s) do police arrest people marching on city streets?

- some more footage of what went on during the evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wTum1mSpkK8

this description on that video seems very sensitive and even-handed:

Second of all, I'd like to say I am extremely dismayed by the violence that occurred on Saturday. There may be a time and place for violent resistance, but we are nowhere near it. The violent and provocative actions of a small group have seriously marred, perhaps irreparably, what little credibility Occupy Oakland had left. The attempt to forcibly seize buildings, even if unused, is misguided and unhelpful.

Unaware of the nature of Saturday's protest and the violence that had happened earlier in the day, I poked my head out after getting home in the evening to see what the ruckus downtown was about. I found the evening march at 27th and Broadway, just a few blocks from where the mass arrests occurred. There were few police visible along my route there (about two minutes by bike), other than some unmarked police vans driving recklessly fast through crowded Saturday night streets. I didn't see police on foot until we were kettled, and only through very good luck was I able to avoid being arrested. After walking three blocks through my home town!

Disturbed by that incident, I returned home by about 9:00 PM, after riding past another disappointing scene at City Hall. At home I stumbled across OakFoSho's live stream, which, along with other live streamers, youtube contributors, and a little first hand experience, provide a comprehensive perspective on what had happened. While some truly lamentable crimes were committed, there is still no justification for the police tactics that were used. I believe that after the eventful morning clashes, they purposely came down hard to send a signal and get retribution. I edited this video to show the movements of protesters and police tactics in the 30 minutes leading up to the mass arrests. Check OakFoSho's Ustream for the unedited footage of the entire evening, and consider spreading this video if you agree that these arrests were unjust.

amateurist, a great many of the people i know in Oakland, whether with OO or not, think of cops as fascists and foot-soldiers for the wealthy and privileged. that language isn't anything new to me, so i'm sorry if it turned you off. but that's the truth. the OPD is being put under the feds b/c of the Riders scandal along with many other instances of institutional corruption. what has happened in the past few months is just adding onto the heap, tbh.

in the end, what i am saying is that their laws mean nothing to them, so why should they mean shit to anyone else?

i think the common ground is that we both agree about the nature of corruption as well as the law-breaking. what we don't agree on is that doing anything in any court will help. i don't really believe in a court system that serves to protect its own (ie cops, politicians, etc) rather than its citizenry.

'violence,' eh. i didn't really see much violence except when a fucking tear gas canister exploded next to my head, so whatever.

if taking unused properties is violence, then i say let's go violence.

also, not to be the stereotype here, but i haven't showered since the morning of the 28th, so i'm going to do that and go to bed.

finally, hey to anyone here whom i know (the gays, sarahell). i'm kind of not doing this anymore. but i thought i'd check out what people were saying about OO. anyway, good luck to all of you.

but you expressly accused people ON THIS THREAD of "sympathizing" with "fascists". you made two sleights of hand: you asserted but did not argue that OPD are "fascists" and then you accused us of "sympathizing" with them which nobody above appears to actually be doing. (also, like the world is a complex place and people have all kinds of motives and stuff and it's possible to "sympathize" with people who are doing things you think are horrible and want to stop. just sayin.)

so you've ruled out courts, talking to city council members, etc. etc. so we should just stage street protests day after day until... what? what do you think will happen? serious question.

i mean if you're preparing for armed insurrection, good luck with that.

but if you aren't laying groundwork for specific changes to take place, getting and tailoring your message to those with a chance of making things happen, etc. you're not going to get anywhere. i know this sounds condescending. i apologize for that. but i've worked on campaigns (not political campaigns in the electoral sense), actions, organizing -- and occupy oakland is not looking substantively like any of those things in the way some of its advocates position it.

btw here's the oakland tribune's take on what's been happening: http://www.insidebayarea.com/oakland-tribune/ci_19855703

I think tabes would agree you ppl who are making a 'hold your nose and vote for him in a swing state argument' about Obama are apologists for our most provably fascist president since Woodrow Wilson. So, his language is just direct and accurate. The system is broken; it doesn't need to be respected, just tactically fucked with.

As far as "tailoring a message" goes, I think the mountain has and will come to Mohammed in this case, to a degree that would've been unimaginable before the 2008 depression.

table & morbs otm itt.

Not me. I'm with the hold your nose and vote Obama in swing states crowd.

yeah I'm really never gonna side with anyone that argues that we should actively and expressly work to make the general public's lives WORSE

which is what Morbz consistently advocates afaict

http://www.mp3crank.com/cover-album/Eagles-The-Long-Run-300x300.jpg

lol

also equating my Don't Vote for Obamdum = Vote for Romnee is exceptional toolism

in swing states that is what yr position amounts to

"Al Gore is ENTITLED to your vote" flashbacks

I voted for Nader in that election (not that it mattered, Gore took CA).

how did you like the Dubya administration. at least it was less fascist than Obama amirite

this is probably not the thread to rehash Voting Theory in the American System 101 for the nine billionth time

agreed. sorry.

what do people make of this purported 'split'

most interesting thing in that article to me is the insinuation that there's something different about the Bay Area that makes this problem/split more pronounced than it has been in other cities, and I wonder why that is

Just more hardcore anarchist/glassbreaker tradition in Bay Area?

I was gonna say that responding to Shakey solely via album covers would be fun, but who are we kidding.

(also Gore actually won in 2000, but Dems characteristically rolled over for the coup d'etat)

After the SCOTUS ruling, I'm not sure what the Dems could have done differently. Impeaching the justices involved would not change the ruling.

this is an ok quote from the Chronicle article:

"We had 50 people in front of banks in San Ramon two weeks ago, and we have been telling people for months about $156 billion bonuses Wall Street executives got last year on the backs of the rest of us, but do we get press?" Goldberg said. "No. Instead, we turn on our TV and there are pictures of people breaking into City Hall.

"What we are protesting about has been totally obliterated by what is coming out of the television set," he said. "It's not just burning the American flag that is terrible - it's terrible that it's all getting totally off message. Trashing buildings and fighting with police is not what 99 percent of what the 99 percenters are about."

but also worth reading / not posted to this thread yet: Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz' speech from Saturday's rally. Very radical, very polarizing, very Oakland.

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2012/do310112.html

I don't mean shame the rich in order to get money out of their guilt, as has been a long practice on the left and among non-profits. I mean NOT taking money from the rich, isolate the rich, don't allow them to soothe their consciences by giving money and getting huge tax breaks in the process. Force them to build tall walls around their estates and corporate headquarters as the people force the rich to do in Latin America. Imprison them. How dare they be allowed to have plate glass windows on their corporate headquarters and mansions!

Force them to build tall walls around their estates and corporate headquarters as the people force the rich to do in Latin America. Imprison them.

favelas for all!

http://www.tear.org.au/images/gallery/reviews/planetoftheslums.jpg

Santa Rita Jail = 90-120 minute drive south of Oakland. I'd never heard of Santa Rita and I've driven the 101 countless times the last 20 years; it's just south of Prunesdale & the 156 crossover to Monterey.

http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/from-the-outside-trying-to-look-in-occupy-oaklands-j28/

this whole thing kinda seems like a huge police victory, in that they came down hard enough on an already angry protest to get elements in it angry enough to do stuff that looks bad on tv, then retroactively used that stuff to justify their coming down hard. which i'm sure they did very consciously, knowing that some shock and awe could provoke kids into breaking shit. maybe what we need is serious training -- training not just in how to resist force effectively but in how to keep looking righteous and noble and collected even when people are beating and shooting you. obv there are elements in america that think it's just and entertaining when cops beat up protesters but i think the majority -- the normals who were horrified by uc davis just like they were by selma -- lean orwell on this point, provided no one's burning flags. and i think the cops know that.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Sprad/SBOT.jpg

so true

that 'polarization' and split that is spoken of is very real, and that article actually painted it rather nicely. what the "99 percenters" don't realize is that the 'hooligans, thugs, anarchists' don't give a fuck about the 99%. This article puts it rather nicely:

‎"The 99% can’t make war on capital’s form of life because they are part of the numerical regulation of life indissociable from democratic capitalism. They forget that they have been counted from the time of their birth and have occupied a territory since the genocide that took place in the Americas. No co-optation necessary: the 99% can’t prevent themselves from becoming a voting bloq. Starting with its name, the 99% assumes that something different will come from within the 100% and the economic relations that determine it."

Here's the rest: http://occupyeverything.org/2012/zero-percent/

admittedly, that's some porphyric academic wrangling (lol), but parts of it are right on, imho.