Occupy Wall Street 3: Now What?

lol dumb charges of fascism made me think of vichy, oakland

dumb question but:

under what law(s) do police arrest people marching on city streets?

- some more footage of what went on during the evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wTum1mSpkK8

this description on that video seems very sensitive and even-handed:

Second of all, I'd like to say I am extremely dismayed by the violence that occurred on Saturday. There may be a time and place for violent resistance, but we are nowhere near it. The violent and provocative actions of a small group have seriously marred, perhaps irreparably, what little credibility Occupy Oakland had left. The attempt to forcibly seize buildings, even if unused, is misguided and unhelpful.

Unaware of the nature of Saturday's protest and the violence that had happened earlier in the day, I poked my head out after getting home in the evening to see what the ruckus downtown was about. I found the evening march at 27th and Broadway, just a few blocks from where the mass arrests occurred. There were few police visible along my route there (about two minutes by bike), other than some unmarked police vans driving recklessly fast through crowded Saturday night streets. I didn't see police on foot until we were kettled, and only through very good luck was I able to avoid being arrested. After walking three blocks through my home town!

Disturbed by that incident, I returned home by about 9:00 PM, after riding past another disappointing scene at City Hall. At home I stumbled across OakFoSho's live stream, which, along with other live streamers, youtube contributors, and a little first hand experience, provide a comprehensive perspective on what had happened. While some truly lamentable crimes were committed, there is still no justification for the police tactics that were used. I believe that after the eventful morning clashes, they purposely came down hard to send a signal and get retribution. I edited this video to show the movements of protesters and police tactics in the 30 minutes leading up to the mass arrests. Check OakFoSho's Ustream for the unedited footage of the entire evening, and consider spreading this video if you agree that these arrests were unjust.

amateurist, a great many of the people i know in Oakland, whether with OO or not, think of cops as fascists and foot-soldiers for the wealthy and privileged. that language isn't anything new to me, so i'm sorry if it turned you off. but that's the truth. the OPD is being put under the feds b/c of the Riders scandal along with many other instances of institutional corruption. what has happened in the past few months is just adding onto the heap, tbh.

in the end, what i am saying is that their laws mean nothing to them, so why should they mean shit to anyone else?

i think the common ground is that we both agree about the nature of corruption as well as the law-breaking. what we don't agree on is that doing anything in any court will help. i don't really believe in a court system that serves to protect its own (ie cops, politicians, etc) rather than its citizenry.

'violence,' eh. i didn't really see much violence except when a fucking tear gas canister exploded next to my head, so whatever.

if taking unused properties is violence, then i say let's go violence.

also, not to be the stereotype here, but i haven't showered since the morning of the 28th, so i'm going to do that and go to bed.

finally, hey to anyone here whom i know (the gays, sarahell). i'm kind of not doing this anymore. but i thought i'd check out what people were saying about OO. anyway, good luck to all of you.

but you expressly accused people ON THIS THREAD of "sympathizing" with "fascists". you made two sleights of hand: you asserted but did not argue that OPD are "fascists" and then you accused us of "sympathizing" with them which nobody above appears to actually be doing. (also, like the world is a complex place and people have all kinds of motives and stuff and it's possible to "sympathize" with people who are doing things you think are horrible and want to stop. just sayin.)

so you've ruled out courts, talking to city council members, etc. etc. so we should just stage street protests day after day until... what? what do you think will happen? serious question.

i mean if you're preparing for armed insurrection, good luck with that.

but if you aren't laying groundwork for specific changes to take place, getting and tailoring your message to those with a chance of making things happen, etc. you're not going to get anywhere. i know this sounds condescending. i apologize for that. but i've worked on campaigns (not political campaigns in the electoral sense), actions, organizing -- and occupy oakland is not looking substantively like any of those things in the way some of its advocates position it.

btw here's the oakland tribune's take on what's been happening: http://www.insidebayarea.com/oakland-tribune/ci_19855703

I think tabes would agree you ppl who are making a 'hold your nose and vote for him in a swing state argument' about Obama are apologists for our most provably fascist president since Woodrow Wilson. So, his language is just direct and accurate. The system is broken; it doesn't need to be respected, just tactically fucked with.

As far as "tailoring a message" goes, I think the mountain has and will come to Mohammed in this case, to a degree that would've been unimaginable before the 2008 depression.

table & morbs otm itt.

Not me. I'm with the hold your nose and vote Obama in swing states crowd.

yeah I'm really never gonna side with anyone that argues that we should actively and expressly work to make the general public's lives WORSE

which is what Morbz consistently advocates afaict

http://www.mp3crank.com/cover-album/Eagles-The-Long-Run-300x300.jpg

lol

also equating my Don't Vote for Obamdum = Vote for Romnee is exceptional toolism

in swing states that is what yr position amounts to

"Al Gore is ENTITLED to your vote" flashbacks

I voted for Nader in that election (not that it mattered, Gore took CA).

how did you like the Dubya administration. at least it was less fascist than Obama amirite

this is probably not the thread to rehash Voting Theory in the American System 101 for the nine billionth time

agreed. sorry.

what do people make of this purported 'split'

most interesting thing in that article to me is the insinuation that there's something different about the Bay Area that makes this problem/split more pronounced than it has been in other cities, and I wonder why that is

Just more hardcore anarchist/glassbreaker tradition in Bay Area?

I was gonna say that responding to Shakey solely via album covers would be fun, but who are we kidding.

(also Gore actually won in 2000, but Dems characteristically rolled over for the coup d'etat)

After the SCOTUS ruling, I'm not sure what the Dems could have done differently. Impeaching the justices involved would not change the ruling.

this is an ok quote from the Chronicle article:

"We had 50 people in front of banks in San Ramon two weeks ago, and we have been telling people for months about $156 billion bonuses Wall Street executives got last year on the backs of the rest of us, but do we get press?" Goldberg said. "No. Instead, we turn on our TV and there are pictures of people breaking into City Hall.

"What we are protesting about has been totally obliterated by what is coming out of the television set," he said. "It's not just burning the American flag that is terrible - it's terrible that it's all getting totally off message. Trashing buildings and fighting with police is not what 99 percent of what the 99 percenters are about."

but also worth reading / not posted to this thread yet: Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz' speech from Saturday's rally. Very radical, very polarizing, very Oakland.

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2012/do310112.html

I don't mean shame the rich in order to get money out of their guilt, as has been a long practice on the left and among non-profits. I mean NOT taking money from the rich, isolate the rich, don't allow them to soothe their consciences by giving money and getting huge tax breaks in the process. Force them to build tall walls around their estates and corporate headquarters as the people force the rich to do in Latin America. Imprison them. How dare they be allowed to have plate glass windows on their corporate headquarters and mansions!

Force them to build tall walls around their estates and corporate headquarters as the people force the rich to do in Latin America. Imprison them.

favelas for all!

http://www.tear.org.au/images/gallery/reviews/planetoftheslums.jpg

Santa Rita Jail = 90-120 minute drive south of Oakland. I'd never heard of Santa Rita and I've driven the 101 countless times the last 20 years; it's just south of Prunesdale & the 156 crossover to Monterey.

http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/from-the-outside-trying-to-look-in-occupy-oaklands-j28/

this whole thing kinda seems like a huge police victory, in that they came down hard enough on an already angry protest to get elements in it angry enough to do stuff that looks bad on tv, then retroactively used that stuff to justify their coming down hard. which i'm sure they did very consciously, knowing that some shock and awe could provoke kids into breaking shit. maybe what we need is serious training -- training not just in how to resist force effectively but in how to keep looking righteous and noble and collected even when people are beating and shooting you. obv there are elements in america that think it's just and entertaining when cops beat up protesters but i think the majority -- the normals who were horrified by uc davis just like they were by selma -- lean orwell on this point, provided no one's burning flags. and i think the cops know that.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Sprad/SBOT.jpg

so true

that 'polarization' and split that is spoken of is very real, and that article actually painted it rather nicely. what the "99 percenters" don't realize is that the 'hooligans, thugs, anarchists' don't give a fuck about the 99%. This article puts it rather nicely:

‎"The 99% can’t make war on capital’s form of life because they are part of the numerical regulation of life indissociable from democratic capitalism. They forget that they have been counted from the time of their birth and have occupied a territory since the genocide that took place in the Americas. No co-optation necessary: the 99% can’t prevent themselves from becoming a voting bloq. Starting with its name, the 99% assumes that something different will come from within the 100% and the economic relations that determine it."

Here's the rest: http://occupyeverything.org/2012/zero-percent/

admittedly, that's some porphyric academic wrangling (lol), but parts of it are right on, imho.

That article is A+ trolling.

http://www.finearts.ohio.edu/film/pages/fac-staff/louis_schwartz.htm

http://www.finearts.ohio.edu/film/pages/fac-staff/Louie.jpg

gah, sorry. didn't realize it would be so big.

Could not take his prose. I stopped after about 1000 words. It was painfully condescending and the author took pains to keep you aware of how superior his understanding of the entire situation was compared to your understanding of it, sentence by painful sentence.

that article is satire right

he would tell you he's serious, and he probably is to some degree. but his entire academic career constitutes a form of trolling IMO. i'll leave it at that.

he has a lot of sycophants too.

If the set included all of the people on earth, the 99% would become part of something close to 1% of the wealthiest individuals globally. In order to survive, they must pretend their poorly drawn Venn diagram refers to an actual state of affairs. The 99%’s new spirit of solidarity is, in fact, an old and vindictive one. It arises from the fact that their wealth comes from the exploitation of others. They conceal this from themselves by abstracting, homogenizing, and objectifying the concept of exploitation, as if it were milk in a supermarket. The 99%’s citizenship-drug produces the delirium of rights, among them the right to representation, while paralyzing the movements of 99% so severely that they can’t act in any way proscribed by the rules set up for them by capital. Incapable of seriously considering armed struggle or the seizure of indoor, unambiguously private property, they want to rebuild the Amerikan dream and voice their belief that it will “live again” and that “the Ameri[k]an way is to help one another succeed.” Sadly, Mayor Bloomberg was correct to assert that both the 99% and the 1% dream of a return to boom times — boom times based on the extraction of surplus value from someone, somewhere.

thing is, this is basically otm and rendered in the the most clownishly academic (and oh-my-god ELITIST) prose that i actually want to punch this person directly in the face.

'let's take our country back' is pretty distasteful whether its from a tea partier or an occupier

yes you have to include _something_ that's self-evidently true to begin building your persona as someone who sees through all the bullshit, including yours, dear reader.

i love how the word "reform" in this piece is worth the unending scorn of scare italics. i'm gonna stop reading this; i know where this dude is coming and it's an ugly combination of intellectual one-upmanship and utter despair.

xxpost

under what law(s) do police arrest people marching on city streets?

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, January 31, 2012 8:02 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in DC it tends to be "failure to obey a lawful order" (like, "you are being ordered to get on the sidewalk")

ok well

Unfortunately, mass movements function as apparatuses of capture. Despite the many entries on the blog, few, if any, posts articulated a systemic critique of capitalism.

you've just given the game away. no mass movements b/c mass movements are incapable of articulating a "systemic critique."

oy.

xpost

damn that is so disturbingly circular. what is a "lawful order"? an order you have to obey.

"capture" = having to actually deal with other real-life people and their concerns (cf. writing bullshit from your privileged position as a tenured academic)

sure except that when most people who are actually just people you know livin say "let's take our country back from corporate america/special interests/whatever" (or maybe something racist) they don't mean it as a rejection of the rest of the world, that they hate. they say it because it's sort of how you say stuff you really mean. it really isn't a fuck-you to starving babies in africa, it's a clumsy reach for stock phrasing. which, if you're in the mood for some self-congratulatory masturbating, could mean that they're brain-dead idiots that watch too much tv and lack the cultivation needed for real-shit revolutionary poetics. or it could be that they were trying to come up with a poster idea, or something to shout, and got stumped

xp to hoos

btw it's nice to read people here calling LGS's bullshit, b/c lord knows it's impossible to argue w/ him or one of his academic sycophants without being condescended to as a running dog of the existing order. (in that sense he's like morbious with much heavier intellectual weaponry.)