we're sidetracking here, though.
can I use this thread to complain about restoration hardware some more? fuck that whole dynamic
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
the hole is for hanging up your toothbrush, duh
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
sorta taking this off subject but I think that's the inherent contradiction in a lot of the sustainability-chic stuff
well, sustainability is a very admirable goal, both in design and in life management. "sustainability chic" is more dubious, of course, but i'll take that over "profligate waste chic" any day.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
i'm not really having problems like you describe with my boar bristle brush, though they definitely do need to be replaced more often than the nylon ones. fuchs makes nylon ones too, i buy either one depending on what's sitting on the shelf.
maybe you need to upgrade your toothpaste?
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/3cK4A3pIuCjUpInjTmdlDu__5jYrhsULoCWQhF9LvQEGmRBiwPKjQ5rig6zSHX-ZOTUb7migTH0oA4hq3elF_iJDxQ1I_AfHjTgCkZX8u0sZORwjf2WXFdyHZ1EPNTfUrfT4o7S-BPo_i7A_sVFnGH7xEJmkQW7ikoKSbNMn98TxOs65krty0Lp0kNkZncRSSV7N1jct7AlMr9RhZiILMgurF-6ZMkqn8WayiJv17ReyXGUulkUSeO-XJSBpDnuRqF6T9MCiYNlpVQ9JxsS7d2uCvORU4642kEiV8oCWahO45Mcob1wmzjIOETs
― the late great, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:12 (twelve years ago) link
this thread is totally TLDR if there's one thing symptomatic of late capitalism it's not $500 roy handmade jeans or $10 old navy slavemade jeans, it's people putting so much energy into critiquing each other's consumer choices
― the late great, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:14 (twelve years ago) link
should read
totally tldr BUT if there's ...
there's nothing 'late capitalism' about that
― iatee, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:15 (twelve years ago) link
who hangs a toothbrush that way? i have literally never seen a toothbrush hung by a hole in its handle. not ever. toothbrushes live in cups or else hang by the neck in things designed for that exact purpose.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:16 (twelve years ago) link
like, should I keep using my water heater (bad example, since few think of this as a prestige item like the thread concentrates on) from the 1970s, or should I relegate it to the landfill and get a new efficient one that reduces my power bill and total water usage?
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, February 13, 2012 1:03 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
probably wait until the present one craps out and then decide? unless, as the late great says, you've got good reason to think that replacing now will make a big difference. not buying shit unless you really have to is almost always a sensible move, especially if it means something else is going to the landfill.
like hybrid cars might be a great idea, but you're offsetting a lot of the potential good you might do if you keep buying a new one every four or five years.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:16 (twelve years ago) link
i have purchased weleda salt toothpaste. it was bracingly nasty and i very much enjoyed dreading it. i do not, however, feel the need ever to purchase it again.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:17 (twelve years ago) link
right, or if the other option is not driving
― iatee, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:18 (twelve years ago) link
if there's one thing symptomatic of late capitalism it's not $500 roy handmade jeans or $10 old navy slavemade jeans, it's people putting so much energy into critiquing each other's consumer choices
call me a late capitalist, but i think that people have probably been criticizing one another's consumer choices since the invention of consumer choices. people like to critique one another.
i'm cheered by the present focus on the moral implications of consumption, though.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:20 (twelve years ago) link
i really like the salt toothpaste! i think other toothpastes taste like nasty minty chemicals now. i like how the salt leaves my mouth feeling dry and clean, not like mouthwash.
i find it works best if you brush "dry" first and then rinse
― the late great, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
It is anything like using plain baking soda? That's my favorite abrasive, teeth feel scarily cleaner afterward but I wonder, surely it's sanding off my enamel layer by layer?
― one little aioli (Laurel), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:23 (twelve years ago) link
as an ardent nondriver, i concur
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
A truly timeless design for a toothbrush would be the absence of thing and a mouth full of rotting teeth.
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
yeah its similar
you know consumer choice is not something that's been around forever
― the late great, Monday, 13 February 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw i'm not trying to criticize anybody for their consumer choices here, i was genuinely surprised by the horse-hair toothbrush because i'd never seen one before, least of all being marketed as a sort of design object. i find the fact of its existence very compelling, maybe even telling... though about what i'm not completely sure.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
well, yes and no. "consumer" as a construct is of fairly recent vintage, but choice goes back quite a ways. farther than competition between providers of services and goods, even.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
tbf the reason you have never seen a toothbrush hung up by the hole like that is that long ago toothbrushes underwent a change in design and the hole was removed, therefore no one put hooks or nails in bathrooms for them anymore! this particular toothbrush is a vintage/throwback thingy so it has the hole
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:39 (twelve years ago) link
some googling leads me to an anecdote stating that they stopped putting holes in them after toothbrush production switched to all plastic
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
ok!
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
in my distant youth it seems to me that toothbrushes were fairly plain in design: all plastic and with either a hole or a rubber toothpick thingy on the non-brushy end. in the 80s they started to get all cray elaborate and the holes & rubber toothpicks vanished. this may be more a product of my limited experience than the actual world of 70s toothbrushes tho.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, I remember the hole/rubber toothpick thingy days. If I had to hazard a guess, the toothpick thing was probably brainstorming. "We're not putting a hole here anymore. What can we put there?"
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 13 February 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
Feel like this might belong here:
Over the next five months, Irene and its crew will carry organic beer from Devon to France, olive oil from Spain to Brazil and then – all being well – bring cocoa, coffee, Amazonian "superfoods" and rum from South America and the Caribbean back to the UK.Admittedly, the ship's diesel engine will be fired up to allow it to chug in and out of harbours but, apart from that, it will use just the power of the trade winds to cross the Atlantic.The hope is that, with this symbolic journey, Irene – a lovely wooden ketch built in Somerset in 1907 to transport bricks and tiles – will blaze a trail for wind-powered cargo ships.
Admittedly, the ship's diesel engine will be fired up to allow it to chug in and out of harbours but, apart from that, it will use just the power of the trade winds to cross the Atlantic.
The hope is that, with this symbolic journey, Irene – a lovely wooden ketch built in Somerset in 1907 to transport bricks and tiles – will blaze a trail for wind-powered cargo ships.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/13/new-dawn-traders-slow-cargo-sail
― two lights crew (seandalai), Monday, 13 February 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzcergmL2Y1qa9ddao1_500.jpg
burn pinterest to the ground btw
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 14:08 (twelve years ago) link
yikes
― max, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 14:19 (twelve years ago) link
it's a bracingly succinct expression of a certain mindset, i'll credit that much
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 14:33 (twelve years ago) link
interesting reading of bourdieu
― max, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 14:36 (twelve years ago) link
I think pinterest is pretty good for people attempting to ~cultivate an aesthetic~ in a way that tumblr or whatever else isn't. Then again, I kind of only had experienced it in passing before going to see a guy I knew in high school speak about some site he'd come up with, which ended up being.. pinterest. whoops.
― valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 14:43 (twelve years ago) link
maybe that's unfair to pinterest but i saw that's where the image was sourced. idk, i think pinterest is ok for "developing an aesthetic" in the 'inspiration board'/'scrapbooking' sense but sometimes how it's used is problematic to me -- like, it just seems like a very public way to window shop and exhibit your taste as a consumer, where we all get to pretend to be our own fashion / lifestyle / decor mag editors.
though in a way i guess you could see that as somehow positive or democratizing, how our aesthetic preferences as consumers are increasingly transmitted 'laterally' instead of passed down from established tastemakers, but i'm not sure it works out that way in the end.
see also: svpply.com
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
how is it any better or worse than wearing clothes as a way of exhibiting your taste as a consumer?
― iatee, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
trading and sharing and copying images of clothes is not the same as wearing those clothes, for a start. not necessarily 'better' or 'worse' but different
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
I mean it's less veiled and it seems vulgar cause it's breaking accepted rules about how you're supposed to exhibit your taste. but overall it's not doing anything new, it just lacks subtlety I guess. maybe there's some inherent value in that subtlety and value in the games we play being complicated, I've never been so sure.
― iatee, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
with iatee here. my first thought was "it's just like clothing". as clothing, speech and body language are to human self-expression in physical public space, text, images and page design are to humans in digital public space. and the costume displays of certain people will always seem "vulgar" to certain other people. we don't define ourselves in isolation but rather in relation, and self-identification is inherently oppositional. "not that but this."
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
what exactly is that individual self-expression though? seems like the identity being expressed is as a consumer itself.
― Spectrum, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
agreed. it's electronically-facilitated ostentation.
― "renegade" gnome (remy bean), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
wonder if the availability of this technology creates a new opportunity for objects to create our identity, as opposed (or in addition to) using objects to express our identity.
― Spectrum, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
'vulgar' kinda connotes low class / lack of refinement, though, and i'm not sure that's how i feel about this phenomenon -- some users certainly have a sophisticated, finely-tuned appreciation for the products they are selecting (dare i say 'curating' -- no, i dare not) and sharing, which can come across like the performance of class distinction, whether they actually buy the products or not.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
all forms of human identity expression = plumage.
ostentation = plumage i choose to sneer at as "too garish".
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
same could be said of clothes, shoes, haircuts, makeup & general style. we buy these things and wear them not just to keep ourselves warm, dry and clean, but to show other people who we are. same with cars, houses and anything else we buy and display in a public or even a private fashion: the prints we hang on our walls, the pets we choose, the pens in our pockets.
we also "consume" from a buffet of culturally-offered attitudes, beliefs, modes of speech & behavior and various identity-defining memes, and we "advertise" these things to others by speaking, talking and otherwise presenting ourselves as we do.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
doesn't this take away the need to be able to afford something to 'wear' it? isn't that better, more egalitarian?
― koogs, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
we buy these things and wear them not just to keep ourselves warm, dry and clean, but to show other people who we are. same with cars, houses and anything else we buy and display in a public or even a private fashion: the prints we hang on our walls, the pets we choose, the pens in our pockets.
this isn't universally true, i don't think! there's a real 'class' element to all of the FINE TASTE bidness. f'rinstance i did not choose my car, it's just the one i inherited when i was 16, most of my clothes are a jumbled assembly of cast-offs, and i hang prints on my wall that i have been given as gifts. i emphatically do not curate a wardrobe (well, i do in the sense that i try to appear clean and neat and relatively coordinated and in clothes without holes), but i would very much welcome the opportunity to step up my wardrobe, if finances and lifestyle allowed for that luxury. i would hate for anybody to think that i'm a slob –– but i would equally hate for anybody to make grand assumptions about who i am (besides some very, very bare bones observations) based on the clothes i wear, car i drive, or prints that hang on my wall.
― "renegade" gnome (remy bean), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 19:10 (twelve years ago) link
i have no idea why 'class' is in quotes
there's a difference between pinterest and svpply accounts and say, a wedding registry or an amazon wishlist. they don't necessarily imply an intent or need to purchase certain products. i still think they manage to express a sort of desire, which may or may not be aspirational, but it's a bit fantastic. idealized. what would you buy if you didn't have to pay? what would your life look like?
i guess there's not much difference between this and, like we did in years past, flipping through fashion / lifestyle / decor mags and looking at and wondering what it would be like to own all the fine things. but what was a private activity is now shared, and that commercial desire becomes the means of self-expression.
i don't know, there's something weird about the social aspect and i can't pin it down exactly.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 19:27 (twelve years ago) link
it just seems like a very public way to window shop and exhibit your taste as a consumer, where we all get to pretend to be our own fashion / lifestyle / decor mag editors.
There was some semi-scientific article about how regular users of pinterest do use it like window shopping, and actually end up buying less overall. So maybe it helps people focus their consumption?
Most people don't actually buy clothes based on magazines anyway, ime, they just go to a regular set of stores and maybe buy a couple items that appeal or go together
― valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
i'm all for these local yokel sustainable ecology-minded young people with shitty jobs and no cars!
― scott seward, Monday, March 12, 2012 11:24 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
*The New Yokelism* was gonna be the title of my book. hand-crafted hatchets. farmer's markets. noise bands. you know, my scene.
― scott seward, Monday, March 12, 2012 11:25 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
needs a catchy subtitle though. a la this old thread:
Quick! What Is The Title Of Your New Ludicrously All-Encompassing Zeitgeist-Seizing Non-Fiction Book About The End Of Everything
― scott seward, Monday, March 12, 2012 11:27 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
As an aside, I was just thinking about how "local" has kind of taken the place of "imported" as a signifier of a certain kind of taste. Which is an interesting turnabout. Probably should go on that other thread about craftsmanship and virtue and stuff.
― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Monday, March 12, 2012 11:28 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Monday, 12 March 2012 15:31 (twelve years ago) link
the nyt thread and this thread are my two fave rolling threads. despite the fact that the nyt itself drives me COMPLETELY insane these days. but, i guess this is where my head is at and where my interests lie. class, craftsmanship, and the end of the world. my three main interests these days.
― scott seward, Monday, 12 March 2012 15:39 (twelve years ago) link
Wendell Berry has an observation about how you didn't see the word "fresh" in food marketing (if there even was such a thing) until it was no longer taken for granted that most food was fresh.
― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Monday, 12 March 2012 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
cf "local"
― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Monday, 12 March 2012 15:58 (twelve years ago) link