Going To Law School

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fine then

RJG, Monday, 11 June 2007 11:39 (sixteen years ago) link

go to the best school that you can get into (fordham is def. w/n reach w/ great LSAT and shitty GPA) -- and, IF you kick ass 1st year, transfer to another school.

Eisbaer, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:48 (sixteen years ago) link

i know this for a fact b/c i had a good LSAT and shitty GPA, and fordham accepted me (though i turned them down). i am also aware that there's been some "bracket creep" in the law schools since i've been out.

Eisbaer, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:49 (sixteen years ago) link

one month passes...

I'm applying. The ball is rolling. FTW

Hurting 2, Thursday, 2 August 2007 04:41 (sixteen years ago) link

Requests are out for rec letters and I have some idea of how I'm going to do my essay. My LSDAS account is set.

Is there any reason not to use LSDAS for as much shit as possible? Also is there any really good reason to *target* rec letters to specific schools?

Hurting 2, Thursday, 2 August 2007 04:43 (sixteen years ago) link

fuck a personal statement. FUCK a personal statement. FUUUUUUCK a personal statement

Hurting 2, Sunday, 12 August 2007 23:01 (sixteen years ago) link

fuck a forced narrative w/"lessons learned"

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 01:15 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm sure it is trite to say so, but once you send off your personal statement/forced narrative/application, you are going to feel so much better. But doing them sure is unpleasant.

Sara R-C, Monday, 13 August 2007 04:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Downside of doing it early is way to much time to think about it.

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 13:04 (sixteen years ago) link

For your statement of purpose or whatever, what on earth should you wirite? It says "why do u want 2 go to law school lol" , but does that mean you should describe the area you want to focus on, etc.? ? ?

uhrrrrrrr10, Monday, 13 August 2007 16:16 (sixteen years ago) link

From what I've read and heard, not really unless you REALLY have a strong, strong interest in a very specific area. Otherwise you'll just sound like a fool since you probably don't know half a shit about law, and they don't really expect you to. I recommend looking through one of those law school essay guides - the Princeton Review one I have is pretty good.

What every admissions guide I read says over and over again is that the essay is your chance to differentiate yourself from other candidates and to show why you are more than just an LSAT score and a GPA. You probably want to talk about some kind of life/work/school experience(s) that influenced your character and/or shaped your decision to go to law school. This by no means needs to be an experience in a pre-law class or legal internship or debate team. You could talk about a sport, a musical interest, a travel experience, your family, really almost anything as long as you can use it to show that you have strong character and strong reasons for attending law school, and also that you can write in an organized, clear and persuasive manner.

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:06 (sixteen years ago) link

i don't know how widely applicable this is, but I used to work at a place where everyone basically applied to law school after a 2-year stint and I proofread a coworker's personal statement that struck me as kind of trite and saccharine and she got into many excellent programs, including Harvard Law. not that I'm recommending that anyone write a trite, saccharine statement, but hers certainly wasn't wonky about the law or even about the law in any direct way. It was just about her.

horseshoe, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

Also, from what I understand, if your numbers are in the upper middle range or higher for the school you're applying to, your essay isn't going to matter as much. They're going to scrutinize it more carefully when you're a borderline candidate.

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:12 (sixteen years ago) link

this isn't college. isn't a grad school p.s. just a cover letter, basically?

gabbneb, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:35 (sixteen years ago) link

no

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 22:58 (sixteen years ago) link

I mean not exactly. The book I read has interviews with a bunch of admissions officers at top 20 law schools. They all say that they don't want to see people just repeating whatever is on their resume. At the same time, you're supposed to be more mature and focused than a college applicant, and most schools prefer to see something more relevant than "my study abroad experience" or "I admire my grandma."

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link

But law school is different from other grad schools in that they're not looking for previously acquired content knowledge. An English graduate program expects you to know literature very well. Med school expects you to know science very well. Law schools, for whatever reason, like to think that they're going to be the ones shaping your legal mind, and they're ore interested in seeing good raw material.

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:01 (sixteen years ago) link

more

Hurting 2, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:01 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't think a cover letter is supposed to just repeat what's on your resume either (though I'm one of those anti-"objective" people). I think the essay should be a convincing statement of purpose - an argument about why you're choosing to do this that demonstrates some self-knowledge (and knowledge about what you're getting into, though you don't have to know what you're going to do in any specific sense), as opposed to a college statement that's supposed to reveal what's distinct about you that would make the class more interesting.

gabbneb, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link

(which isn't to say that law schools are uninterested in making their classes more interesting, but they're going to do so with people who have a pretty clear sense of purpose with regard to something interesting)

gabbneb, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:15 (sixteen years ago) link

but what do I know, I only got into a few of this top 20 schools. I never took Kaplan or Princeton Review, just a ghetto LSAT course that gave me a lower score than expected (non-marginally lower than when I took it a second time without studying).

gabbneb, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:20 (sixteen years ago) link

I will reiterate what I said a year ago...

Take a LONG, HARD, REALISTIC look at the money end of the decision.

Please. Everyone goes in thinking that they are going to be in the top 10%. The overwhelming odds, obv., are that you will not be.

Me, I got lucky. I landed what is turning out to be a great job that I intend to hold down for a long time. I also have a gainfully employed spouse, so my student loan payments are not crushing.

Still - do not go in blind. This is a SERIOUS financial undertaking.

B.L.A.M., Monday, 13 August 2007 23:32 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't think you're really contradicting what I'm saying, gabbneb.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 14 August 2007 00:35 (sixteen years ago) link

don't sweat the personal statement. just write something half-way coherent, and you'll be fine.

Eisbaer, Tuesday, 14 August 2007 00:46 (sixteen years ago) link

I think I'm directly contradicting "What every admissions guide I read says over and over again," but I could be quite wrong. Anyway, yeah, I think it's a numbers game moreso than top colleges are.

gabbneb, Tuesday, 14 August 2007 00:48 (sixteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Classic: Having my first law school application complete and transmitted (NYU)

Dud: Getting home and finding a typo in the personal statement (I referenced "Harpers Magazine" -- no apostrophe). FUK!!! I READ THAT SHIT SO MANY TIMES AND HAD A FEW OTHER PEOPLE READ IT!!!

Still, it feels great to have the first one sent off, and NYU is a longshot anyway. The rest will be easier to complete now.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 05:07 (sixteen years ago) link

Good luck with the applications. Don't fret about the typo. It happens.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 13 November 2007 05:28 (sixteen years ago) link

thx

Other schools I'm applying to:

Fordham, Penn, Columbia, Cardozo, Brooklyn Law, Rutgers (Newark and maybe Camden), and also William & Mary and Northwestern exclusively because they offered me fee waivers so why not.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 05:33 (sixteen years ago) link

Some v. good law schools in that group. You'll be fine.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 13 November 2007 05:35 (sixteen years ago) link

You seem to have the requisite amount of self-obsession, at least.

Nubbelverbrennung, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 08:01 (sixteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Accepted to Cardozo with sizable scholarship - probably going there barring completion of LOL Ivy League Hail Mary pass.

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.coconut-court.com/images/BeachJ450GREEN.jpg

gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

(1)learn and practice how to take law school exams.

(2) drop some money on a few emmanuels for the first-year classes -- and actually READING them -- so that you aren't befuddled by all of the Socratic hide-the-ball crap you will be exposed to during the next 3 years of yer life.

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

ugh, I applied to Cardozo and al lthat shit - unfortuantely one of my schools kept losing my transcripts, so my app won't be complete until next week. Waitlist 4 me : { : { : [[[[[ :{;

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:11 (sixteen years ago) link

also, is yer cardozo scholarship conditioned on maintaining a certain GPA/class rank? i was offered a deal like that from seton hall -- essentially, 1st year totally paid for (except living expenses) -- but i passed on it.

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:12 (sixteen years ago) link

that, and the fact that the typical Seton Hall student = EVERY bad stereotype about north jersey in the flesh. but that's just me!

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah, conditional - a little over half tuition paid first year, second year have to stay in about top 40% of class to maintain full scholarship, and there's a sliding scale after that.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:14 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm hoping to get offered money at another school to give me some bargaining leverage.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:14 (sixteen years ago) link

congrats on Cardozo at least. I think my chances are a bit slim at this point with apps in so late :[ ]

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:16 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm hoping to get offered money at another school to give me some bargaining leverage.

ha -- i tried that shit w/ both RU-Newark and Fordham. both told me to go pound sand (fordham b/c they think that their shit doesn't stink b/c they get all the folks who REALLY wanna be @ Columbia or NYU; rutgers-newark b/c they were already super-cheap and don't have as much money to throw around as seton hall had).

doesn't hurt to try, but you may not succeed.

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Don't despair. First, you still have a shot. Second, you can always go somewhere lower on your list, work hard and transfer. I met a girl who (in spite of obviously being very bright) got a 143 on her LSAT and could only get into Widener. She kept in close touch with the Temple admissions office, did well her first semester, and was able to transfer second year.

So considering you have better numbers than that to begin with, you probably have options.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:20 (sixteen years ago) link

My friend at Fordham Law said like 90% of the people there are embarrassed and ashamed that they're at Fordham; Columbia and NYU were their real schools of choice.

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:21 (sixteen years ago) link

fuk I'll be really happy if I get into Fordham.

That description makes it sound kind of like Rutgers undergrad - it's a good school with a lousy atmosphere because everyone there wanted to go somewhere better.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:22 (sixteen years ago) link

I only applied to the 5 schools I really want to go to; I don't want to gamble my current financial freedom on a school I'm lukewarm about for a chance to transfer somewhere else. If all else fails I can apply next year, but I'll by 26 by Fall 2009

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:23 (sixteen years ago) link

I met a girl who (in spite of obviously being very bright) got a 143 on her LSAT and could only get into Widener. She kept in close touch with the Temple admissions office, did well her first semester, and was able to transfer second year.

that's especially impressive, considering that widener has a C-curve (which TOTALLY fucks up the chances of a lot of that school's graduates).

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:23 (sixteen years ago) link

From the sound of it, it was her continued show of interest in Temple that made the difference. Numbers aren't everything.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:28 (sixteen years ago) link

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

Take the next statement to heart:

Law school is about four letters - I-R-A-C. Issue, rule, application, and conclusion. You spot the issue, you recite the relevant rule or rules, you apply those rules to the facts, and arrive at your conclusion. Your grades will depend - to the tune of 95% - on your ability to adhere to and succesfully manipulate this formula for your exam answers. So, from day one, do the following: Fuck all the inter-personal bullshit, don't try to score points with the professors or engage in any of the petty, middle school level assholery. Learn the rules, practice applying them to facts, and repeat.

That description makes it sound kind of like Rutgers undergrad - it's a good school with a lousy atmosphere because everyone there wanted to go somewhere better.

Man, if I had a nickle for EVERY time I thought to myself "Assholes. I CHOSE to go to Rutgers. Stop pissing in my coffee"....Those over-entitled jerks didn't realize the huge value or just objective quality that Rutgers offers as a university.

B.L.A.M., Wednesday, 16 January 2008 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link

i chose it too, btw

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 21:16 (sixteen years ago) link

add BLAM's advice to mine -- when you learn and practice taking law school exams, apply IRAC. there are definitely books out there (and probably webpages) if you are puzzled about it.

Eisbaer, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 21:24 (sixteen years ago) link

I have some experience with appellate opinions in my work so I essentially know what you're talking about.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 21:27 (sixteen years ago) link


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